All Line Rover
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According to the London Midland website GroupSave is due to change in some way from 18 May 2014. Any idea what this entails?
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GroupSave changes?
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Paul Kelly
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I wonder if that going to be spun as a positive thing?! Currently, say for a fare of £30, with five passengers you can get 4 GPS-4 tickets at £15 each, plus one full price, giving a total cost of 4 * £15 + £30 = £90.
If all five passengers are going to only have a third off, then the new cost will be 5 * £20 = £100. Not a positive development at all!
Four passengers travelling together would currently pay £60; with the new arrangement they will pay 4 * £20 = £80.
So five passengers travelling together will pay 11% more than currently, and four passengers travelling together will pay 33% more!
swt_passenger
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Is this expected to be a national change?
If so I wonder if this might see XC accepting GroupSave then, because if the discount per passenger is effectively the same as any typical railcard, they'll be little or no worse off.
Another comparison is that Network card holders can already take up to four others with them at 1/3 off, so in the southeast at least, GS4 loses some of its attraction...
If so I wonder if this might see XC accepting GroupSave then, because if the discount per passenger is effectively the same as any typical railcard, they'll be little or no worse off.
Another comparison is that Network card holders can already take up to four others with them at 1/3 off, so in the southeast at least, GS4 loses some of its attraction...
I'm sure ScotRail already do this. The new tickets will be issued as one ticket so no more sneaky spitting up the group on the way home.
MyFriendMary
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We've been instructed to already do this, print all 3/4, on the same ticket to avoid any individuals in the group either losing their ticket and invalidating all the others or anyone coming back without the others.
Also saves on ticket stock. Got to think about those trees :P
All Line Rover
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On the one hand, it's always seemed strange in theory that 4 passengers should pay the same as 3 passengers, and if this change enables GroupSave to be rolled out more widely (e.g. on Virgin) I would be in favour. On the other hand, if nothing changes to GroupSave except the price, it will of course be a detrimental change. I reserve judgement.
One small change that would be welcome if made would be amending the fact that currently, if a traveller doesn't turn up, the whole group's purchase is invalidated. Maybe they might rethink this rule in light of the price change? One can hope.
If you now have only one ticket, that should be easy to do. People HAVE to be together, and will know they need a new ticket if they decide to go home earlier/later or not travel later.
One ticket's fine but not if it is a one-day travelcard, as this can cause chaos at barriers.
To be fair in my experience Groupsave tickets don't usually work the barriers at national rail stations but this is easier to deal with as most stations are nowhere near as busy as Underground stations.
To be fair in my experience Groupsave tickets don't usually work the barriers at national rail stations but this is easier to deal with as most stations are nowhere near as busy as Underground stations.
Any more information on this apart from the post from wibble upthread which has no source?
I've had a tweet from @nationalrailenq telling me there will be changes, but they won't specify the details at the moment.
It's kinda frustrating for the likes of Community Rail Partnerships who are producing advertising material for the summer and can't ensure accuracy of the GroupSave terms and conditions beyond 18th May.
I've had a tweet from @nationalrailenq telling me there will be changes, but they won't specify the details at the moment.
It's kinda frustrating for the likes of Community Rail Partnerships who are producing advertising material for the summer and can't ensure accuracy of the GroupSave terms and conditions beyond 18th May.
Having now seen the brief, there are no changes to the participating TOCs, the maximum group size is increased to 9 people and Kids for a Quid is abolished.
Unlike other fare changes, which come into force four weeks ahead for travel after the fares change date, it only applies to tickets purchased on or after 18th May.
Unlike other fare changes, which come into force four weeks ahead for travel after the fares change date, it only applies to tickets purchased on or after 18th May.
swt_passenger
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Yes there are changes, and no the '4 for 2' is not retained.. Nearly as suggested in the info in the second post of this thread, rather than up to 5 it's any size of party between 3 and 9 adults now gets 34% off.
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All Line Rover
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It's odd that East Coast aren't joining. GroupSave now replicates their group travel offer for Advance tickets.
You can't get GroupSave on Advances and they may not feel they need or want to offer it on walk-up tickets.
John @ home
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East Coast have become less generous. They now advertise "travel in a group of 3-9 people with our East Coast Advance fares and youll enjoy a massive 25% off the price of tickets".
For example, a £25.80 Advance Single Edinburgh - London in the Fares Manual is reduced, if bought at East Coast, to £24.00 for one passenger and to £17.75 each (74% of £24.00) for 3-9 passengers.
Biggus Tiggus
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Some examples...Let's use a Reading - London Off-Peak Day Return, costing £17.70, as our base ticket. This currently gives a GroupSave 3 discounted price of £11.70, GroupSave 4 of £8.85 and Kids for a Quid.
Add Children to the mix and it gets worse...With 4 Adults and 4 Children, the total increases from £39.40 to £82.20 (£42.80 or +108.6%)! With a Family Railcard, that'd come down to £60.20 (£11.70 Adult, £3.35 Child).
I don't envy retail staff on 18th May as a result of this change...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
This applies to all TOCs that currently offer GroupSave (possibly except EMT and ScotRail, whose implementation is different to the main scheme). Passengers travelling on TOCs that offer their own Child Flat Fares already will escape the hurt of having to pay full Child fare when the "Kids For A Quid" is withdrawn.
- Group of 3 Adults - Remains the same at £35.10
- Group of 4 Adults - Increases from £35.40 to £46.80 (£11.40 or +32.2%)
- Group of 5 Adults - Increases from £53.10 to £58.50 (£5.40 or +10.2%)
- Group of 6 Adults - Remains the same at £70.20
- Group of 7 Adults - Increases from £70.50 to £81.90 (£11.40 or +16.2%)
- Group of 8 Adults - Increases from £70.80 to £93.60 (£22.80 or +32.2%)
- Group of 9 Adults - Remains the same at £105.30
Add Children to the mix and it gets worse...With 4 Adults and 4 Children, the total increases from £39.40 to £82.20 (£42.80 or +108.6%)! With a Family Railcard, that'd come down to £60.20 (£11.70 Adult, £3.35 Child).
I don't envy retail staff on 18th May as a result of this change...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
This applies to all TOCs that currently offer GroupSave (possibly except EMT and ScotRail, whose implementation is different to the main scheme). Passengers travelling on TOCs that offer their own Child Flat Fares already will escape the hurt of having to pay full Child fare when the "Kids For A Quid" is withdrawn.
Am I right in thinking tickets purchased before 18/5 for travel later in the year will get the current discount? Hoping I can avoid a 50% increase in our summer holiday tickets!
swt_passenger
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In post #12 it was pointed out that there are 'no changes' to the participating TOCs.
Having now seen the internal staff brief on another forum, all the TOCs that currently use the 'standard' Groupsave are changing. (That's Abellio Greater Anglia, c2c, Chiltern, First Capital Connect, First Great Western, London Midland, London Overground, Southeastern, Southern, South West Trains.)
Then there are two other TOCs (as mentioned a couple of posts above), EMT and Scotrail, that are retaining their specific Groupsave schemes that operate slightly differently to the main scheme.
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I think you are.
Thanks - will try anyway. The websites are doing just this, but I need to buy for beyond the 3 months they will sell for.
Thanks for the clarification.
IanD
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You could try at a station.
Here is that retail brief issued to staff.
National Rail Enquiries told me a couple of days ago that there is no public information yet as final details are not confirmed. I find that hard to believe if a retail brief has to been sent out to staff. What's more likely is ATOC are trying to come up with a form of words that will try to sugar coat the massive price increases these new arrangements mean. I predict they'll mention 'bringing into line with railcard discounts' and/or 'simplification'.
What's really annoying about this is that many Community Rail Partnerships and other such bodies have already produced their summer literature with detail of the current GroupSave arrangements. It appears there has been no consultation whatsoever, save within ATOC. No doubt some will argue that the relevant TOCs don't have to consult, as this is a special offer. That's just arrogance though.
National Rail Enquiries told me a couple of days ago that there is no public information yet as final details are not confirmed. I find that hard to believe if a retail brief has to been sent out to staff. What's more likely is ATOC are trying to come up with a form of words that will try to sugar coat the massive price increases these new arrangements mean. I predict they'll mention 'bringing into line with railcard discounts' and/or 'simplification'.
What's really annoying about this is that many Community Rail Partnerships and other such bodies have already produced their summer literature with detail of the current GroupSave arrangements. It appears there has been no consultation whatsoever, save within ATOC. No doubt some will argue that the relevant TOCs don't have to consult, as this is a special offer. That's just arrogance though.
Yes, that was my plan - just wanted to check before making arrangements.
RJ
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If you're travelling with other people who don't have a railcard, Groupsave may well still work out to be the cheapest option overall.
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