Creation of class 230 DEMUs from ex-LU D78s by Vivarail

route:oxford · 4 Nov 2015

Greybeard33 said:
The choice of "Morecambe" for the destination display on the exterior renders perhaps hints at one of the franchises that the Vivarail marketeers have in their sights, Ministerial statements notwithstanding....

Personally, I would have had a bit more fun and hinted at their suitability for use on re-opened lines or stations

"Kenilworth"
"Witney"
"BMW"
"Kincardine"

RailUK Forums

pemma · 4 Nov 2015

route:oxford said:
Personally, I would have had a bit more fun and hinted at their suitability for use on re-opened lines or stations

"Kenilworth"
"Witney"
"BMW"
"Kincardine"

I would have put "London Liverpool Street" on the front and then checked the Daily Mail the next day for a badly written story about old rubbish being put on London commuter lines.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Haydn1971 said:
Or probably more likely, it's a Vivarail in house joke that they know will get comments on the rail forums - not that I've ever done anything like that in an official capacity haha

They've still got a coloured distorted mockup on another page on their site showing an orange MetroTrain logo. Combine those two and it's a train for the Leeds to Morecambe route!

Paul Sidorczuk said:
Morecambe Council's tourist section should be getting in touch with Adrian Shooter to complain about their resort's name being shown in this image. Morecambe finds it hard enough to attract visitors these days without that particular unwanted artistic impression leaving them open to even more unkind jokes than normal....:roll:

Does Morecambe still have just the one proper hotel? If so maybe Vivarail are looking at Plan B if the D-Train fails - a train hotel.

JohnB57 · 4 Nov 2015

jcollins said:
Does Morecambe still have just the one proper hotel?

More importantly, do the seagulls still fly upside down?

Xenophon PCDGS · 4 Nov 2015

CdBrux said:
As I know Paul Sidorczuk is a long time opponent of this idea, no matter how good it may end up being, then I will be the one to ask him: "What do you think of it so far?"

I am certainly old enough to know of Eric Morecambe's ventriloquist response...Rubbish..

jayiscupid · 9 Nov 2015

JaJaWa said:
No requirements for a yellow end from next year.

Does anybody have anymore information on this?

Chris125 · 9 Nov 2015

RRDC has made available the two recent Modern Railways articles about Vivarail's Class 230:

Roger Ford: Class 230 Confounds Critics

Ian Walmsley: Shooter Misses Foot

nferguso · 10 Nov 2015

Thanks but we're doing fine for additional testing revenue without a mainline connection.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

sprinterguy said:
I believe that Neil Williams was suggesting using them on the passenger service. That is how the prototype class 150s and 151s were used in their early days.

Prior to entering passenger service they were also tested on the Wirksworth branch, though with the loss of the mainline connection that is no longer an option if the Ecclesbourne Valley Railway were looking to earn some additional revenue.

Thanks but we're doing fine for additional testing revenue without a mainline connection.

Clip · 10 Nov 2015

Chris125 said:
RRDC has made available the two recent Modern Railways articles about Vivarail's Class 230:

Roger Ford: Class 230 Confounds Critics

Ian Walmsley: Shooter Misses Foot

Good reads them and some interesting pictures too.

Chris125 · 15 Nov 2015

Not seen this posted before, it's a 9 minute video of the 230 doing a circuit of their test track.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNmRi6cDNY8

It begins with an interesting conversation in the background concerning the cab structure and the engines, then from around 6mins the vehicle accelerates up to the maximum linespeed - around 30mph IIRC.

Though a relatively poor quality video it doesn't sound appreciably different to conventional D Stock at those speeds, with the predominant noise being the traction motors.

asylumxl · 15 Nov 2015

Chris125 said:
Not seen this posted before, it's a 9 minute video of the 230 doing a circuit of their test track.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNmRi6cDNY8

It begins with an interesting conversation in the background concerning the cab structure and the engines, then from around 6mins the vehicle accelerates up to the maximum linespeed - around 30mph IIRC.

Though a relatively poor quality video it doesn't sound appreciably different to conventional D Stock at those speeds, with the predominant noise being the traction motors.

Seems alright to me!

47802 · 15 Nov 2015

Well you can not tell a lot from that video really, needs some real world testing at 60mph in any case, the ride looks better than a Railbus but then it would difficult not to be. I don't doubt they can probably come up with a reasonable train at the end of the day but its not a new train, if you believe that these trains can be replaced by electrification cascades in the next 10 to 15 years and bearing in mind a lot of 1st gen sprinters will also need replacing by then if not before then there is maybe a good argument for them, but I don't believe that.

lincolnshire · 15 Nov 2015

Chris125 said:
Not seen this posted before, it's a 9 minute video of the 230 doing a circuit of their test track.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNmRi6cDNY8

It begins with an interesting conversation in the background concerning the cab structure and the engines, then from around 6mins the vehicle accelerates up to the maximum linespeed - around 30mph IIRC.

Though a relatively poor quality video it doesn't sound appreciably different to conventional D Stock at those speeds, with the predominant noise being the traction motors.

You can definitely see when the train accelerates unto 30 mph as I don,t think there standard of track in parts would allow for much more than walking speed in parts and all then facing points to get across.

It also lets you see the place and all the stored stock on site, anybody want to buy some tank wagons or sets of wheels?

We will all have to wait and see what the finished test train is like and at full speed too, but at present it sounded not bad noise wise.

colchesterken · 15 Nov 2015

Please could we have some "in service" testing on Manks Tey- Sudbury

They badly need a train, any train
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Learning how to type, that was of course.. Marks Tey - Sudbury

pemma · 15 Nov 2015

asylumxl said:
Seems alright to me!

Unless it's going to go on the Stourbridge Shuttle I don't know how you can make any judgement on a train going that slowly.

jimm · 15 Nov 2015

Won't have to wait loo long now to see what it can do on Network Rail metals. The three-car prototype is nearing completion and is likely to be let out on the Cotswold Line at some point before Christmas to be put through its paces in type approval testing.

Phil. · 15 Nov 2015

BestWestern said:
The yellow ends standard is being done away with?

Well just about every railway in Europe including surface running L.U.L. trains seem to manage without them..............

Chris125 · 15 Nov 2015

jcollins said:
Unless it's going to go on the Stourbridge Shuttle I don't know how you can make any judgement on a train going that slowly.

Clearly no-one should make a final judgement until the finished article has been tested at it's full speed range, but it still gives an idea of how the design compares to other DMUs at least at lower speeds, under acceleration and when negotiating sharp curves/poor quality track and I can see why so many people who attended went away impressed.

Chris

34D · 9 Dec 2015

So will Arriva Trains Northern quietly take some?

pemma · 9 Dec 2015

34D said:
So will Arriva Trains Northern quietly take some?

Well they aren't actually allowed to reveal suppliers until at least 10 days after the announcement in case a rival bidder makes an appeal. However, at the moment it's looking like they didn't have any difficulty in persuading DfT that 271 brand new carriages were needed, opposed to 120 brand new, which would have been the minimum required to meet the ITT requirements.

Xenophon PCDGS · 9 Dec 2015

34D said:
So will Arriva Trains Northern quietly take some?

After all the talk of the reinvigoration emanating from the Northern Powerhouse, the stated franchise promise of introduction of brand-new rolling stock and the end of the "Curse of the Pacers", the word "quietly" will be the last word to describe the furore that will so erupt of any of the "Shooter Incubus" units are found to have made their way into the new franchise area.

Gareth Marston · 9 Dec 2015

Paul Sidorczuk said:
After all the talk of the reinvigoration emanating from the Northern Powerhouse, the stated franchise promise of introduction of brand-new rolling stock and the end of the "Curse of the Pacers", the word "quietly" will be the last word to describe the furore that will so erupt of any of the "Shooter Incubus" units are found to have made their way into the new franchise area.

There's also a certain quote by Claire Perry of "not on my watch" methinks Mr Shooter & Co read the tea leafs from within DfT very well but not the reality of an election that was suppose to produce a hung parliament. He's always got the export market......

Bletchleyite · 9 Dec 2015

Gareth Marston said:
There's also a certain quote by Claire Perry of "not on my watch" methinks Mr Shooter & Co read the tea leafs from within DfT very well but not the reality of an election that was suppose to produce a hung parliament. He's always got the export market......

And Arriva Trains Wales, and GWR branches etc.

And indeed a possible realisation that a 30% uplift in peak capacity on Northern over the next 9 years simply will not be sufficient. It sounds good, but Manchester area commuter services (for instance) will need South East style capacity, and they will need it soon. I'm talking 8-car EMUs with a view to going to 12 within 20 years.

I wouldn't rule him out yet.

Xenophon PCDGS · 10 Dec 2015

Neil Williams said:
And Arriva Trains Wales, and GWR branches etc. And indeed a possible realisation that a 30% uplift in peak capacity on Northern over the next 9 years simply will not be sufficient. It sounds good, but Manchester area commuter services (for instance) will need South East style capacity, and they will need it soon. I'm talking 8-car EMUs with a view to going to 12 within 20 years.

If you recall, on the Styal Line, the platforms at Mauldeth Road, Burnage, East Didsbury and Gatley stations were completely rebuilt using modern methods of construction not so very long ago. Will it be all that easy to lengthen those modular-built platforms to accept 8-car and 12-car trains?

Camden · 10 Dec 2015

Neil Williams said:
And Arriva Trains Wales, and GWR branches etc.

And indeed a possible realisation that a 30% uplift in peak capacity on Northern over the next 9 years simply will not be sufficient. It sounds good, but Manchester area commuter services (for instance) will need South East style capacity, and they will need it soon. I'm talking 8-car EMUs with a view to going to 12 within 20 years.

I wouldn't rule him out yet.

ORR data seems to show that Manchester's metropolitan rail usage is pretty low per person present day. I don't doubt that more capacity will be needed, but the idea of needing London level of capacity...

Bletchleyite · 10 Dec 2015

Camden said:
ORR data seems to show that Manchester's metropolitan rail usage is pretty low per person present day.

Which is partly because it is so poor - while levels of overcrowding are far worse than north London commuter services like LM, though perhaps not so bad as what passengers at Clapham Junction see.

I am certain there is, like was seen with XC, significant untapped demand which will come to the fore when the service quality improves.

Taunton · 10 Dec 2015

Gareth Marston said:
There's also a certain quote by Claire Perry of "not on my watch" methinks Mr Shooter & Co read the tea leafs from within DfT very well but not the reality of an election that was suppose to produce a hung parliament.

The best thing the new franchise can do is to state that they are ordering new trains, which always take years to be manufactured, and in the MEANTIME they are leasing Mr Shooters trains to give an IMMEDIATE IMPROVEMENT before the new trains are ready.

Then as delivery date gets closer the Minister will no longer be "on the watch" (as they rarely last more than a year or two), and the leases can just be extended. It's not as if the capacity isn't needed.

Gareth Marston · 10 Dec 2015

Taunton said:
The best thing the new franchise can do is to state that they are ordering new trains, which always take years to be manufactured, and in the MEANTIME they are leasing Mr Shooters trains to give an IMMEDIATE IMPROVEMENT before the new trains are ready.

Then as delivery date gets closer the Minister will no longer be "on the watch" (as they rarely last more than a year or two), and the leases can just be extended. It's not as if the capacity isn't needed.

The whole way the Northern and TPE franchises have played out has been driven by election promises I can't see that stopping now.

Mikey C · 10 Dec 2015

Gareth Marston said:
The whole way the Northern and TPE franchises have played out has been driven by election promises I can't see that stopping now.

Election in 2020. Northern Powerhouse a major pet project of George Osborne, who will probably be PM by then. Lots of marginal seats in the NW...

There's no way they will backtrack on this!

Xenophon PCDGS · 10 Dec 2015

Taunton said:
The best thing the new franchise can do is to state that they are ordering new trains, which always take years to be manufactured, and in the MEANTIME they are leasing Mr Shooters trains to give an IMMEDIATE IMPROVEMENT before the new trains are ready.

Then as delivery date gets closer the Minister will no longer be "on the watch" (as they rarely last more than a year or two), and the leases can just be extended. It's not as if the capacity isn't needed.

Do I take it that you are not satisfied with the wording of the future rolling stock provision for the current Northern Franchise by your mention of an IMMEDIATE IMPROVEMENT?

Perhaps I have been out of this particular loop for far to long, so I will ask:-
1)....When did the Class 230 units pass all the required pre-testing requirements and receive the full authorisation to proceed in full production?
2)....How many of the Class 230 units are there available for use to then provide the IMMEDIATE IMPROVEMENT to which your posting above states?

Bletchleyite · 11 Dec 2015

Phil. said:
Well just about every railway in Europe including surface running L.U.L. trains seem to manage without them..............

To be fair both LUL and DB use red ends, which are almost as visible. DB also has those white panels either side of the DB logo which I recall are reflective. But also, to be fair, at least on older locomotives, very poor headlights which essentially consist of a 60 watt incandescent bulb mounted vertically.

Creation of class 230 DEMUs from ex-LU D78s by Vivarail

Established Member

RailUK Forums

Veteran Member

Member

Veteran Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member