Doncaster derailment

DarloRich · 30 May 2014

National Rail is staying a freight train has derailed at Doncaster and has blocked access to P 6/7/8

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/77497.aspx

That doesnt sound good! Does anyone know any more?

RailUK Forums

SPADTrap · 30 May 2014

0L08 11:40 Belmont - Wakefield has derailed, not sure to what extent however. Looks like a DB light engine move.

ianhr · 30 May 2014

Northern's Leeds-Doncaster locals replaced by buses south of Wakefield.

user15681 · 30 May 2014

Quote from another site...

Loco (66057) has the leading bogie derailed at the trap points for D293 signal, 2 wheels in the fourinches 1 wheel on the check rail

Eccles · 30 May 2014

Photo from a mate on a passing 158...

edwin_m · 30 May 2014

Loco (66057) has the leading bogie derailed at the trap points for D293 signal, 2 wheels in the fourinches 1 wheel on the check rail

Cause of the derailment must have been track tight to gauge then.

feliner · 30 May 2014

Looks like the loco, has derailed on the trap points after signal D293 on two way goods 1 line. there is potential to read across signals at this location.

Snapper · 30 May 2014

Pic here: http://paulbigland.zenfolio.com/p694420730/h1281f07e#h1281f07e

edwin_m · 30 May 2014

Not an expert, but if this was a simple case of the trap point carrying out its intended function I don't think the wheels would have ended up where that photo shows them.

GB · 30 May 2014

They might be "wide to gauge" type trap points...in fact they more than likely are.

shedman · 31 May 2014

GB said:
They might be "wide to gauge" type trap points...in fact they more than likely are.

Yes they are

A-driver · 31 May 2014

feliner said:
Looks like the loco, has derailed on the trap points after signal D293 on two way goods 1 line. there is potential to read across signals at this location.

Perhaps a bit too much speculation considering if true a driver career may be on the line. Wait for official reports before making assumptions?

There was a derailment on catch points at Hertford north carriage sidings last week but that had nothing to do with the driver having an incident, initial reports seem to state it was previously unknown safety feature with the new signalling system. Still resulted with the front boogie of a 313 in the dirt.

455driver · 31 May 2014

A-driver said:
Perhaps a bit too much speculation considering if true a driver career may be on the line. Wait for official reports before making assumptions?

On here!

hock:
Good luck with that one! :lol:

Oswyntail · 31 May 2014

A-driver said:
Perhaps a bit too much speculation considering if true a driver career may be on the line. Wait for official reports before making assumptions?....

Absolutely not. There is absolutely no harm to anyone in speculating, so long as everyone realises that is what it is. And most here are capable of doing that. The speculation, followed by informed correction if necessary, are the only ways that people can learn about the industry, and incidents like this.

A-driver · 31 May 2014

Oswyntail said:
Absolutely not. There is absolutely no harm to anyone in speculating, so long as everyone realises that is what it is. And most here are capable of doing that. The speculation, followed by informed correction if necessary, are the only ways that people can learn about the industry, and incidents like this.

I don't agree at all. Why bother speculating like the post I quoted? The post was implying that the derailment was probably driver error. We have seen absolutely no evidence to suggest that, or anything else, and so speculation is of no use whatsoever.

Plus add in that the press are known for reading websites like this...

For all we know on here at this time aliens may have derailed that loco, but again just unhelpful speculation.

142094 · 31 May 2014

Sounds like the time a spotter put on YouTube that a driver had SPaDed and made a massive song and dance about it, only for it to be found out that it was an authorised move past a signal at danger due to a track circuit fault.

Oswyntail · 31 May 2014

feliner said:
Looks like the loco, has derailed on the trap points after signal D293 on two way goods 1 line. there is potential to read across signals at this location.

A-driver said:
I don't agree at all. Why bother speculating like the post I quoted? The post was implying that the derailment was probably driver error. We have seen absolutely no evidence to suggest that, or anything else, and so speculation is of no use whatsoever. .....

I have quoted the original post in full. Now, in my limited knowledge, I cannot see whether it is speculating about driver error. What I would appreciate is a reply that says a) what the original post means, or implies, b) what other explanations might be possible, and c) a reasonable discussion of any issues that might arise out of this, whether affecting the driver, the design of the bogies, the trackwork, signalling or anything else. This is a discussion board, and people, like me, learn a lot from it. That is why speculation is of use.
It is also, IMHO, excessively paranoid to censor any discussion because someone might have made an error. If an error has been made, then there may well be consequences. I very much doubt anyone would take the ramblings on this board as evidence of anything:roll:

A-driver · 1 Jun 2014

Oswyntail said:
I have quoted the original post in full. Now, in my limited knowledge, I cannot see whether it is speculating about driver error. What I would appreciate is a reply that says a) what the original post means, or implies, b) what other explanations might be possible, and c) a reasonable discussion of any issues that might arise out of this, whether affecting the driver, the design of the bogies, the trackwork, signalling or anything else. This is a discussion board, and people, like me, learn a lot from it. That is why speculation is of use.

It is also, IMHO, excessively paranoid to censor any discussion because someone might have made an error. If an error has been made, then there may well be consequences. I very much doubt anyone would take the ramblings on this board as evidence of anything:roll:

But no one on here knows what happened yet. It could have been a million and one things. But straight away someone is jumping in blaming it on driver error. I think that that is wrong until the facts are known. Certainly is an option that it was driver error but equally it may have been signaller error, Shunter error, unit fault, track defect, vandalism, sabotage or many, many other things.

Just seems every time anything is reported on this forum posters immediately assume staff error.

83G/84D · 1 Jun 2014

A-driver said:
But no one on here knows what happened yet. It could have been a million and one things. But straight away someone is jumping in blaming it on driver error. I think that that is wrong until the facts are known. Certainly is an option that it was driver error but equally it may have been signaller error, Shunter error, unit fault, track defect, vandalism, sabotage or many, many other things.

Just seems every time anything is reported on this forum posters immediately assume staff error.

Well said A - driver. Assumptions and speculation benefit no-one.

Oswyntail · 1 Jun 2014

A-driver said:
....Just seems every time anything is reported on this forum posters immediately assume staff error.

Then put them right! Suggest other possible causes, explanations. Simply trying to censor discussion gives the impression you too think it is likely staff error.

Legzr1 · 1 Jun 2014

Some of us know what happened and the staff involved and also know of the multi-spad signal in question and the fact the AWS magnet is beyond the signal.

We also know that NR have been aware of issues for some time.

Yet, we choose not to speculate.

However, don't let that stop anyone jumping to conclusions based on crappy phone pics and hearsay.You know who you are...

455driver · 1 Jun 2014

Oswyntail said:
Then put them right! Suggest other possible causes, explanations. Simply trying to censor discussion gives the impression you too think it is likely staff error.

Why?
Some of us have got better things to do* than keep correcting the same old conjecture every time a train has an earth fault.

* such as read the disputes section!

Oswyntail · 1 Jun 2014

455driver said:
Why?
Some of us have got better things to do* than keep correcting the same old conjecture every time a train has an earth fault.....

Except that you don't. You try to clamp down on discussion as "speculation". Actually, virtually everything on this board is speculation to some extent, and the ensuing discussions tend to revise it towards truth. What are you so terrified of?

Legzr1 · 1 Jun 2014

I'd forgotten why I'd gave this place a wide berth lately.

Thanks for the timely reminder :roll:

Xenophon PCDGS · 1 Jun 2014

A-driver said:
For all we know on here at this time aliens may have derailed that loco, but again just unhelpful speculation.

What is the difference between aliens and illegal aliens ?

455driver · 1 Jun 2014

Oswyntail said:
Except that you don't. You try to clamp down on discussion as "speculation". Actually, virtually everything on this board is speculation to some extent, and the ensuing discussions tend to revise it towards truth. What are you so terrified of?

Nothing, just sick of reading the same old, misinformed bullshoite from the usual numpties!

Clear enough for ya! :roll:

feliner · 1 Jun 2014

I would love to have been wrong about my speculation, but having been on the railway 35 years, 28 as a driver i have seen several derailments at this location in previous years. It is a very poorly sighted signal which easily leads to confusion.My thoughts are with the driver.

SpacePhoenix · 2 Jun 2014

feliner said:
I would love to have been wrong about my speculation, but having been on the railway 35 years, 28 as a driver i have seen several derailments at this location in previous years. It is a very poorly sighted signal which easily leads to confusion.My thoughts are with the driver.

Could NR put in a repeater for the signal at a suitable place?

A-driver · 2 Jun 2014

SpacePhoenix said:
Could NR put in a repeater for the signal at a suitable place?

There are hundreds of locations where NR could add banner repeaters, co acting signals or even re-locate the signals themselves but there is one thing that prevents it...any one guess what? It starts with M and ends in Y.

455driver · 2 Jun 2014

A-driver said:
but there is one thing that prevents it...any one guess what? It starts with M and ends in Y.

That bloody Mary won't let them change anything, she insists on keeping things as they are!

Or is that not you meant!

All a lot of places need is a striped backboard on the signal, job done.

Doncaster derailment

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