The Future of Dawlish Warren's Camping Coaches

E_Reeves · 6 Oct 2016

Sorry if this has been discussed somewhere else...

Since the camping coaches at Dawlish Warren have recently closed for business, does anybody know the future for these?
It'd be a shame for them to go to scrap, but I guess this happens to most things after they have finished being used...

Thanks

RailUK Forums

Devonman2014 · 6 Oct 2016

E_Reeves said:
Sorry if this has been discussed somewhere else...

Since the camping coaches at Dawlish Warren have recently closed for business, does anybody know the future for these?
It'd be a shame for them to go to scrap, but I guess this happens to most things after they have finished being used...

Thanks

Was on the news in Devon at beginning of march(ish) that this season is to be the last season they are there as they are expensive to maintain and takings are down year on year.
Don't know if any other companies or preserved railways are looking at purchasing them or if they heading to scrapyard.

Chris125 · 7 Oct 2016

I gather they aren't in good condition, no doubt the metalwork will have suffered given their location.

snakeeyes · 7 Oct 2016

what sort of coaches are they, any pictures?

30907 · 7 Oct 2016

BR Mark I mostly (sorry, Rob F!)

Rob F · 7 Oct 2016

30907 said:
BR Mark I

We stayed quite regularly in 'Plymouth' which was an ex-LMS inspection saloon. In the latter years the only thing that was holding it together was the rust......

ROB

notverydeep · 7 Oct 2016

The excellent Vintage Carriage Trust The Railway Heritage Register Carriage Survey Project: http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/search.asp
has the following coaches listed as being at Dawlish Warren:

BR 1991 Mk 1 Unclassed Restaurant Car (now Camping Coach) built 1961
BR 1951 Mk 1 Unclassed Restaurant Car (now Camping Coach) built 1960
BR 1934 Mk 1 Unclassed Restaurant Car (now Camping Coach) built 1959
BR 1931 Mk 1 Unclassed Restaurant Car (now Camping Coach) built 1959
BR 1930 Mk 1 Unclassed Restaurant Car (now Camping Coach) built 1959
BR 1927 Mk 1 Unclassed Restaurant Car (now Camping Coach) built 1959
BR 1015 Mk 1 Restaurant Second Open (now Camping Coach) built 1960
LMS 45046 Inspection Saloon (now Camping Coach) built 1941

From memory these were brought to the site in the late 1980s or early 1990s, replacing older vehicles. Presumably though the owners could not afford or did not wish to buy and convert more modern vehicles and closed instead.

Johnuk123 · 7 Oct 2016

Shame that is, whenever I tried to book they were always fully booked.

TheEdge · 7 Oct 2016

I guess there is no real point in saving any of those, Mk1s are not exactly rare. The Inspection Saloon maybe of interest to someone though.

MarkyT · 7 Oct 2016

notverydeep said:
From memory these were brought to the site in the late 1980s or early 1990s, replacing older vehicles. Presumably though the owners could not afford or did not wish to buy and convert more modern vehicles and closed instead.

It's sad to see the site closing, but the coach bodies are in an awful state after long term exposure to salt and moisture. The current cars arrived by rail, but they will not be able to depart that way. Replacements could not arrive by rail either, as the track connection was removed in the mid 1980s resignalling. Without rail access, removal of the old cars intact by road looks difficult so dismantling on site seems a more likely bet.

It'd be great to see some Mk3 replacements, perhaps a mixture of sleepers for hostel-style accomodation and kitchen diner units as single unit apartments, but the road delivery complications would still apply, and the increased length of the more modern vehicles might add to problems. There's no heritage-based protection possible for the coaches, no planning use restriction that forces their retention, and the land is freehold. Sadly, short of crowd funding purchase of the site, I can't see what more enthusiasts can do to keep this site in operation.

fgwrich · 7 Oct 2016

MarkyT said:
It's sad to see the site closing, but the coach bodies are in an awful state after long term exposure to salt and moisture. The current cars arrived by rail, but they will not be able to depart that way. Replacements could not arrive by rail either, as the track connection was removed in the mid 1980s resignalling. Without rail access, removal of the old cars intact by road looks difficult so dismantling on site seems a more likely bet.

It'd be great to see some Mk3 replacements, perhaps a mixture of sleepers for hostel-style accomodation and kitchen diner units as single unit apartments, but the road delivery complications would still apply, and the increased length of the more modern vehicles might add to problems. There's no heritage-based protection possible for the coaches, no planning use restriction that forces their retention, and the land is freehold. Sadly, short of crowd funding purchase of the site, I can't see what more enthusiasts can do to keep this site in operation.

I completely agree with you. It's not just the exteriors that are tired as the interiors require some serious money as well. Ultimately Booths or EMR is really the best place for these coaches, I can't see them ever finding a use in Pres as there's very little of the interior that would provide much use, and the exteriors would require a several new pieces of metal to replace the corroded steel.

It'll be a shame when they do leave, as it's become as much of a landmark along the sea wall as the Red Rock etc, but you only have to see pictures of the vehicles to see how much of a rough state their in.

61653 HTAFC · 7 Oct 2016

It's a while since I've been there so may be mistaken, but aren't they on the 'land' side of the railway, and not overly exposed to saltwater spray? I'd have thought they're less vulnerable to the effects of the sea than trains still in service (other than obviously not being maintained to the standards of mainline stock, of course!).

TheEdge · 7 Oct 2016

61653 HTAFC said:
It's a while since I've been there so may be mistaken, but aren't they on the 'land' side of the railway, and not overly exposed to saltwater spray? I'd have thought they're less vulnerable to the effects of the sea than trains still in service (other than obviously not being maintained to the standards of mainline stock, of course!).

Irrelevant, they are still only a few hundred meters from the sea. The moisture in the air is salty and they've sat there for decades.

Cowley · 7 Oct 2016

I looked around them recently and they're definitely looking very tired. I really will miss them seeing though, tried to organise a holiday in one a couple of years back but just couldn't get the right week unfortunately.
I can't imagine it would be very easy to get them out by road, towards Starcross has some very sharp corners around Cockwood harbour and towards Dawlish isn't much better either.

Deafdoggie · 7 Oct 2016

Cowley said:
I looked around them recently and they're definitely looking very tired. I really will miss them seeing though, tried to organise a holiday in one a couple of years back but just couldn't get the right week unfortunately.
I can't imagine it would be very easy to get them out by road, towards Starcross has some very sharp corners around Cockwood harbour and towards Dawlish isn't much better either.

There are four holiday parks in Dawlish Warren, a stones throw from the carriages, all have caravans and lodges considerably larger than the carriages, and all are delivered by road without (major) issue. There is no logistical reason they can't be moved out by road-other than they may fall apart!

Dawlish Warren Tourist Group say the land is owned by Network Rail, and they should know. To be fair, most of the land round there is owned by Network Rail, so I don't see why not. Although I suspect it won't make a huge difference on what happens.

Martin66 · 7 Oct 2016

snakeeyes said:
what sort of coaches are they, any pictures?

Here is a picture:

Deafdoggie · 7 Oct 2016

The 'Signal Box' in the distance is on the Up Platform (but on non-public side of fence) and is a private residence, used as a private holiday home. The upstairs has lovely views, and is used as the lounge, the downstairs are bedrooms. It is a new build, and doesn't replace an existing structure in any way, but it does look like a signal box!

Sadly, as I say, a private house, and not rented out.

Cowley · 7 Oct 2016

Deafdoggie said:
There are four holiday parks in Dawlish Warren, a stones throw from the carriages, all have caravans and lodges considerably larger than the carriages, and all are delivered by road without (major) issue. There is no logistical reason they can't be moved out by road-other than they may fall apart!

The largest mobile homes in the parks around Dawlish Warren are about 40' long and 12' wide, considerably shorter than a mk1 which is about 64' long and a lot heavier although obviously only around 8' wide.
I'm not saying they won't go out by road but when I was younger I worked for a firm that moved abnormal loads (including static caravans) and I wouldn't fancy getting those carriages out on those roads.
Might be worth going down to watch when they do it though

MarkyT · 7 Oct 2016

Deafdoggie said:
There are four holiday parks in Dawlish Warren, a stones throw from the carriages, all have caravans and lodges considerably larger than the carriages, and all are delivered by road without (major) issue. There is no logistical reason they can't be moved out by road-other than they may fall apart!

The caravans and lodges don't seem to exceed 40' in length although can be over double the width of a rail carriage, so it is likely length would be the major constraint.

I doubt they'd get them out of the existing site entrance onto the narrow road that leads under the railway bridge. Perhaps a new access could be created through the fence further south somewhere into the car park alongside, which has a better route out onto the road network, but there's a level difference so some significant earthworks might be required to create a new ramp.

fgwrich · 7 Oct 2016

Don't forget that there will be some haulage firms who will be used to taking specialist loads down to Dawlish - the site compound next to the camping coaches took delivery of some of the large concrete sections used in the sea wall rebuilding 2 years ago, as well as the RRVs and plant used on the reconsruction.

Cowley · 7 Oct 2016

I have an angle grinder and I'm locally based...

Rapidash · 7 Oct 2016

I thought someone in Cornwall had bought em? Or was that the Exmouth cafe one?

MarkyT · 7 Oct 2016

The land, with carriages, is up for sale freehold with a guide price of £125,000 - £175,000:

http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/de...0a5c7062bd3c6d0df6ab7dab9#7hrG1k582dLVoHCu.97

A truly spectacular opportunity to acquire this rather iconic rail carriage former holiday letting enterprise situated within the renowned tourist hotspot of Dawlish Warren.

The site extends to 0.34 hectares (0.83 acres) and apart from the obvious attraction to commercial investors looking to continue a holiday letting business there will be investors from other sectors who will envisage alternative schemes or uses for the land to include development, subject to all necessary consents being obtainable. Interested applicants are advised to make their own enquiries with the Local Planning Authority, the Teignbridge District Council: Tel: Website:

Railway Carriages
The eight locomotive carriages, all being individually named after UK city locations, briefly comprise kitchen, living area, bedroom and bathroom facilities comfortable for sleeping six to eight people.

Static Caravan
Kitchen, living room, bedroom and bathroom.

Outside
The site is well defined by fence and hedge boundaries and is predominantly laid to a large gravelled area servicing the carriages.

There are also other hardstanding areas providing plentiful off-street parking as well as some brick-built storage outbuildings which formerly included a launderette and information centre.

pdeaves · 8 Oct 2016

Eight locomotive carriages?!?!

route:oxford · 8 Oct 2016

pdeaves said:
Eight locomotive carriages?!?!

Seems fair enough.

Differentiates them from being multiple unit carriages for the non techie.

fgwrich · 8 Oct 2016

Of course the other issue with these is the Mk1s themselves - apart from the already mentioned rot, there's little worth saving in these coaches as the majority of the Mk1s were converted from MK1 Kitchen Cars. Of which there's still a good few lying around on Pres lines, Dartmoor and Carnforth.

theblackwatch · 8 Oct 2016

The coaches are in poor condition - the bodywork is rough after being stood in the open for 30+ years and the interiors are in need of a major refurbishment. (I've been going to the site for quite a few years and stayed in one of the coaches back in June.) From what I gather, this year the site has been quite popular owing to the announcement that it was shutting, but in previous years bookings haven't been so good. This is probably in part due to poor marketing by the GWRSA. I only found out by chance that they could be hired by the general public - before then, I'd believed they were available to rail staff only.

To remove the coaches would require either some quite major lifting equipment, or removal of buildings/traffic lights. Unless the new site purchaser is someone with money behind them to undertake major works (which I'd love to see, but think it's doubtful), I expect the cheapest option will be to dispose of the coaches on site, with some component recovery for preservation groups taking place.

Ash Bridge · 6 Nov 2016

MarkyT said:
The land, with carriages, is up for sale freehold with a guide price of £125,000 - £175,000:

http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/de...0a5c7062bd3c6d0df6ab7dab9#7hrG1k582dLVoHCu.97

Just noted that the land and coaches have sold at auction for £261,000.

Cowley · 6 Nov 2016

Ash Bridge said:
Just noted that the land and coaches have sold at auction for £261,000.

The guide price did seem pretty low considering where the land is. Shame they're going though.

Ash Bridge · 6 Nov 2016

Cowley said:
The guide price did seem pretty low considering where the land is. Shame they're going though.

Yes it did, and the actual sale price seems to confirm this, and even at that price it looks as though someone has bagged themselves a bargain!

The Future of Dawlish Warren's Camping Coaches

Established Member

RailUK Forums

Member

Established Member

Member

Veteran Member

Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Forum Staff

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Forum Staff

Established Member

Established Member

Forum Staff

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Forum Staff

Established Member