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Scottish diesels in the 1980s Scotrail era.

Gaz67

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I must admit that I was a bit thrown by your question actually Gaz because photos of them are harder to find than I expected.

I did find a few photos on Flickr of 26008 in the mid 1980s with the yellow sticker though:

Edit - Also 26041:

26032 (like the model mentioned) did have them and possibly some others too?
Good finds those , you stuck at the search longer than me. Thanks.
 
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Big Jumby 74

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Don't know if anyone can answer this, but back in 80-81, just about the time the first few 27's were reallocated to IS to replace the DMU's on the IS-Aberdeen trains, 26's were still employed further south, on more local workings, ie Dundee to Perth/Edinburgh. Presuming they didn't wander over to Glasgow? Does anyone have any such recollections of the latter, and any idea(s) as to any diagram detail? Long shot perhaps, but TIA anyway.
 

hexagon789

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Don't know if anyone can answer this, but back in 80-81, just about the time the first few 27's were reallocated to IS to replace the DMU's on the IS-Aberdeen trains, 26's were still employed further south, on more local workings, ie Dundee to Perth/Edinburgh. Presuming they didn't wander over to Glasgow? Does anyone have any such recollections of the latter, and any idea(s) as to any diagram detail? Long shot perhaps, but TIA anyway.
26s absolutely wandered over to Glasgow, there are plenty of photos on Flickr of them working the Glasgow QS - Dundee semi-fasts throughout the early 80s, prior to the Dundee semi-fasts being curtailed, initially to Perth then later completely.
 

D6130

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Don't know if anyone can answer this, but back in 80-81, just about the time the first few 27's were reallocated to IS to replace the DMU's on the IS-Aberdeen trains, 26's were still employed further south, on more local workings, ie Dundee to Perth/Edinburgh. Presuming they didn't wander over to Glasgow? Does anyone have any such recollections of the latter, and any idea(s) as to any diagram detail? Long shot perhaps, but TIA anyway.
Can't lay my hands on any diagrams at the moment, but around that time class 26s - as well as class 25s and 27s - appeared quite frequently on the G &SW route Glasgow-Carlisle via Dumfries services. I can recall a Friday evening after-work pub crawl in Dumfries in 1981 when we had 26 031 on the 16 10 from Central. I also remember seeing several other members of the class on the line....but I never saw a 26 on the Stranraer line. They also appeared quite frequently on the Glasgow and Edinburgh-Dundee stoppers, turn about with 27s.
 

Magdalia

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Two other trains that were usually class 26s in the early 1980s were the 1710 Perth-Arbroath and the 2050 Carlisle-Perth forward from Mossend Yard.
 

Big Jumby 74

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26s absolutely wandered over to Glasgow
Had a bit of a senior moment there, of course they did, ignore me! Was heading south-west-ish from Dundee, mid week, with a 26, possibly late afternoon time (dusk was encroaching whilst 'on depot', that I do remember, prior to departing Dundee - April 81 period). It may have been possibly early (morning peak sort of time) the very next SX day, but notes/workings etc all lost. A change of train was made en route to Glasgow, in to a service headed by a Brush 4, so possibly at Perth, but other than that, no real clues? Just trying to identify the trains concerned I guess, but appreciate too many variables to come to any realistic conclusion.
 

hexagon789

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Had a bit of a senior moment there, of course they did, ignore me! Was heading south-west-ish from Dundee, mid week, with a 26, possibly late afternoon time (dusk was encroaching whilst 'on depot', that I do remember, prior to departing Dundee - April 81 period). It may have been possibly early (morning peak sort of time) the very next SX day, but notes/workings etc all lost. A change of train was made en route to Glasgow, in to a service headed by a Brush 4, so possibly at Perth, but other than that, no real clues? Just trying to identify the trains concerned I guess, but appreciate too many variables to come to any realistic conclusion.
If you changed at Perth arriving from Dundee, my guess would be from an Arbroath or Dundee to Perth 'stopper' to an ex-Highland Main Line service.

Gleneagles, Dunblane or Stirling are the other possibilities for a change I guess, but in 1981 only the Dundee to Glasgow stoppers called there from Dundee, and unless you were changing specifically for the haulage, I don't see why you'd change from one Glasgow-bound service to another service for Glasgow? Or am I missing something here?)
 

Big Jumby 74

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If you changed at Perth arriving from Dundee, my guess would be from an Arbroath or Dundee to Perth 'stopper' to an ex-Highland Main Line service.
That is my best guess looking back at the GBTT's I have acquired via TTworld (wish I'd kept my hard copies, lol). My guess is something like 1701 or 1715 off DE, changing at Perth in to (eg) 1732 or 1942 (ex IS) to Queen Street, but equally could have been an overnight doss in Perth, but my gut tells me I would have caught a few zzzz's in Glasgow, knowing that fine city as I did back then!
Like I say, it was only a long shot, so please do not go overboard wasting time on same, was only trying to fill in a few blanks!
 

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Shaw S Hunter

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As late as 1986 there was still a 1603 Queen Street-Arbroath which could produce just about anything. During August of that year I had both a 26 and 27 (separately!) on that service and doubtless 37/0s appeared too. Of course that summer was marked by a dispute with Haymarket maintenance staff affecting DMU availability. The result was the Waverley-Kirkcaldy stoppers reverting to loco-haulage using any battered Mk1 that could be found and seemingly any old loco too. Mostly 26s but I had a pair of 20s on one run.
 

Magdalia

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Don't know if anyone can answer this, but back in 80-81, just about the time the first few 27's were reallocated to IS to replace the DMU's on the IS-Aberdeen trains, 26's were still employed further south, on more local workings, ie Dundee to Perth/Edinburgh.

Was heading south-west-ish from Dundee, mid week, with a 26, possibly late afternoon time (dusk was encroaching whilst 'on depot', that I do remember, prior to departing Dundee - April 81 period).


hat is my best guess looking back at the GBTT's I have acquired via TTworld (wish I'd kept my hard copies, lol). My guess is something like 1701 or 1715 off DE, changing at Perth in to (eg) 1732 or 1942 (ex IS) to Queen Street
The 1701 off Dundee was 1T42 1535 Aberdeen-Glasgow.

This was followed by 1C89 1545 Aberdeen-Carstairs TPO, which was unadvertised between Aberdeen and Dundee, formed the 1715 Dundee to Perth, arriving at 1741, and then went back to being unadvertised going forward to Carstairs. 1C89 was hauled by the loco that returned north hauling 1S81 2050 Carlisle-Perth forward from Mossend Yard, so likely to be a class 26.

The afternoon Inverness-Glasgow train was 1T43. In the 1980-81 timetable this departs Inverness at 1448 and Perth 1732, but in the 1981-82 timetable it had been retimed to depart Inverness at 1505 and Perth at 1758.

These are all possibilities for 1C89 then 1T43:

  • the journey is before the 1981 timetable change, and the connection at Perth was made because 1T43 was late
  • 1T43 was retimed at some point during the 1980-81 timetable
  • the journey was after June 1981 when there was a booked connection from 1C89 to 1T43
 

hexagon789

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As late as 1986 there was still a 1603 Queen Street-Arbroath which could produce just about anything. During August of that year I had both a 26 and 27 (separately!) on that service and doubtless 37/0s appeared too. Of course that summer was marked by a dispute with Haymarket maintenance staff affecting DMU availability. The result was the Waverley-Kirkcaldy stoppers reverting to loco-haulage using any battered Mk1 that could be found and seemingly any old loco too. Mostly 26s but I had a pair of 20s on one run.
The evening Queen Street to Arbroath was also a fair bet for some interesting formations at times.

ISTR seeing a photo of a 7 coach rake with 3 BSOs and a BG in it, 1986.

so please do not go overboard wasting time on same, was only trying to fill in a few blanks!
I really don't mind, its actually quite interesting to do a bit of detective work like this, but Magdalia seems to have made the effort for us :)
 

Gaz67

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Two other trains that were usually class 26s in the early 1980s were the 1710 Perth-Arbroath and the 2050 Carlisle-Perth forward from Mossend Yard.

Did the Carlisle Perth on an escorted trip with lancs loco society 15/16 April 83, 85024 out of the GSW bay for 27020 fwd, tour around IS then 27021/26034 to Aberdeen, visit to Ferryhill , then train to Haymarket for trip around depot, great trip that.
 
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Sun Chariot

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2 miles and 50 years away from the Longmoor Milita

Did the Carlisle Perth on an escorted trip with lancs loco society 15/16 April 83, 85024 out of the GSW bay for 27020 fwd, tour around IS then 27021/26034 to Aberdeen, visit to Ferryhill , then train to Haymarket for trip around depot, great trip that.
That is when the railways were Proper. 8-) Sadly it was 1986 before I was allowed on "post O-level" teen holidays / trips / tours sans parents
 

Big Jumby 74

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This was followed by 1C89 1545 Aberdeen-Carstairs TPO, which was unadvertised between Aberdeen and Dundee, formed the 1715 Dundee to Perth, arriving at 1741, and then went back to being unadvertised going forward to Carstairs. 1C89 was hauled by the loco that returned north hauling 1S81 2050 Carlisle-Perth forward from Mossend Yard, so likely to be a class 26.
This scenario would fit the bill (for the 26), and also the need to change trains to get to Glasgow (which fits in with the 47 as well, be that leg the same evening or the next morning?). I did wonder about the 17.15 when looking at the GBTT entry (1980-81 TT). It seemed a bit of an odd disjointed service just running that short distance, so was thinking DMU originally, so thank you for the detailed clarification.
These are all possibilities for 1C89 then 1T43:

  • the journey is before the 1981 timetable change, and the connection at Perth was made because 1T43 was late
  • 1T43 was retimed at some point during the 1980-81 timetable
The other (later) train forward from Perth (80-81 GBTT) would appear to be 19.42 off Perth (ex Inverness), if that were a 47 diagram? It gives the grey cells a bit of exercise to think these things through, just so long as one doesn't obsess about it for too long I find..:lol: . Thanks for all the input.
 

Falcon1200

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Unfortunately I no longer have my records from pre-1983, but from those I do have;

Sat 2nd April 1983
26024 2050 Carlisle-Perth (from Mossend)
26026 2238 Queen St-Dundee

Mon 16th May 1983
26035 0750 Dundee-Queen St

Wed 6th July 1983
26026 2050 Carlisle-Perth (from Mossend)
 

Big Jumby 74

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Unfortunately I no longer have my records from pre-1983, but from those I do have;
No worries at all. But thank you very much for taking the time to look things up. I have a number of years in my records (early 80's) that are now an utter blank, memory wise, and note book wise, the latter being wide gaps date wise that I can't now explain, and yet in some cases I still have my own photo's, and more to the point negatives, confirming I was there (or here) etc. Very bizarre!


Updated;
Apologise if this has already been mentioned, but just looking at page 1 of the thread and the subject of 27's based at Inverness. I had a run behind 008 from Inverness to Aberdeen in 1981, either 08.27 or 11.02 departure from IS, and checking the Ian Allan loco shed book for that year, 27's 003/5/7/8/21/108 & 109 were all based at IS.
 
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Gaz67

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A few more from Scotland 28/6/85 to 4/7/85, full head code 37s are 260, 261 and 262 (yellow head code). The only non type 2/3 pic I took was 47118, my last one for sight. Also of interest was 27048 piloting 37261 to Lairg, no pic of this strangely, must of worked a freight back. I will post my full haulages when I get around to it, even found my spotting notes.

Last few for now from Georgemass jct, 27048 stabled on the freight.
 
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