Advances not sold at Ticket Office

[cjp]

I discovered the other week that Advance tickets are not sold at my local FGW station which meant a hurried trip home to book on line for the following day and then a trip straight back to collect my tickets (so I had them ready for the start my journey without having to fret in queue to collect them).
The booking office clerk first said, as the reason that they were not sold was it took too long to sell them and then later said that the equipment did not permit their sale and told me to travel to another station - Paddington or Ealing Broadway to buy them.
Now I already knew I could not get reservations at this station but not selling advance tickets took me by surprise and surely it goes against the principle of making the best priced ticket available?

They do sell tickets for travel on another day and they did patiently sell me a quirky ticket off the routing map so it is not the guys in the office being unhelpful but FGW.

Are there many ticket office like that out there and, if I had asked, would they or should they have given me a free return ticket to the station I was being told to visit to buy my ticket?

Oh a plug for
http://www.takethetrain.co.uk
their system produced a cheaper route than either the East Coast web site or the one I was first offered by Paddington who did actually sell me the cheaper ticket when when I told them about http://www.takethetrain.co.uk way of doing the journey. It saved me about eight pounds so it was not to be sniffed at.
Off course I am booked to travel in coach M and the ticket office clerk could not override it although he tried.
It is an 0930 departure to Kings Cross Scotland -do you think the train staff will let me move if I ask nicely to be closer to the kitchens and the food and drink?

 

[ainsworth74]

Now I already knew I could not get reservations at this station but not selling advance tickets took me by surprise and surely it goes against the principle of making the best priced ticket available?

If the booking office can't issue reservations then it can't issue advance tickets as it has no way of knowing what the availability of the advances on the service you want to use. Remember that advances have to be issued with a mandatory reservation coupon, if they can't issue reservations they can't issue advances.

They do sell tickets for travel on another day and they did patiently sell me a quirky ticket off the routing map so it is not the guys in the office being unhelpful but FGW.

They can sell walk up tickets (Off-Peak, Anytime and Super Off-Peak) without reservations therefore they can issue them in advance of travel.

Are there many ticket office like that out there and, if I had asked, would they or should they have given me a free return ticket to the station I was being told to visit to buy my ticket?

There are a few but they're fairly uncommon I'd have thought.

It is an 0930 departure to Kings Cross Scotland -do you think the train staff will let me move if I ask nicely to be closer to the kitchens and the food and drink?

I wouldn't bother asking just sit wherever you want. I never sit in my reserved seat and I have never even had a member of staff comment on it let alone tell me to move back.

 

[Brucey]

Out of interest, which station do you use?

 

[island]

There are a small number of stations which use Avantix Mobile as their booking office system (this is the portable machine which guards use and is operated by a stylus and touch screen). These genuinely can't sell Advances. If they have a computer-based system, they can. My experience is that some clerks can't be bothered doing Advances because they're a bit of a faff, so fob people off.

Can you tell us which station it was?

 

[cjp]

There are a small number of stations which use Avantix Mobile as their booking office system (this is the portable machine which guards use and is operated by a stylus and touch screen). These genuinely can't sell Advances. If they have a computer-based system, they can. My experience is that some clerks can't be bothered doing Advances because they're a bit of a faff, so fob people off.

Can you tell us which station it was?

Neither Southall nor Hayes & Harlington could do it.
Both have a full set up, touch screens, till drawers, printers and two position windows; although only one was open - as is the case most of the day.
I assume from what was said to that neither Hanwell nor West Ealing could issue advances either (these are the stations down the line towards Ealing Broadway and Paddington).

ainsworth74 Remember that advances have to be issued with a mandatory reservation coupon, if they can't issue reservations they can't issue advances.

Interestingly on the journey I just booked I have a ticket and reservation coupon for the first leg of the trip but the second leg, Edinburgh - Glasgow, there is no reservation coupon and the ticket route EC and Connections simply says validity "booked Train Only". I believe this means I can have a break of a hour or so in Edinburgh if I wanted to before catching a connecting Scotrail Train. (even if I ought not to how would anyone know?)

 

[Brucey]

What time of day did you visit?

As far as I am aware, both of these stations have Fujitsu Star machines, which run online by default.

 

[island]

I think that's a case of the clerk not being trained or not being bothered.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Interestingly on the journey I just booked I have a ticket and reservation coupon for the first leg of the trip but the second leg, Edinburgh - Glasgow, there is no reservation coupon and the ticket route EC and Connections simply says validity "booked Train Only". I believe this means I can have a break of a hour or so in Edinburgh if I wanted to before catching a connecting Scotrail Train. (even if I ought not to how would anyone know?)

You may not break your journey on an advance ticket, but using the station facilities is not breaking your journey. Nor is obeying an instruction from a member of staff, even if that instruction is given in response to a question such as "where can I go to smoke?"

 

[cjp]

What time of day did you visit?

As far as I am aware, both of these stations have Fujitsu Star machines, which run online by default.

Yesterday at between 1340 and 1400
Previously at about 1740

Different people and different days of the week.

So I think it is a FGW thing rather than the clerks

So it comes back to my original point ...
not selling advance tickets took me by surprise and surely it goes against the principle of making the best priced ticket available

 

[OwlMan]

I think that's a case of the clerk not being trained or not being bothered.

Lets blame the clerk, for your information neither Hayes & Harlington or Southall do reservations (from ATOC section 17 http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/SCHEDULE%2017%20-%20June%20%2712.pdf).
Only Reading, Maidenhead, Ealing Broadway, Paddington & Slough do reservations east of Reading on FGW

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....So I think it is a FGW thing rather than the clerks

Not necessarily, though it is a little risky for the clerks if it is possible to sell them.

 

[island]

Lets blame the clerk, for your information neither Hayes & Harlington or Southall do reservations (from ATOC section 17 http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/SCHEDULE 17 - June '12.pdf).

Well, I stand corrected. Apologies to the clerks, on the off-chance they read it.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....Only Reading, Maidenhead, Ealing Broadway, Paddington & Slough do reservations west of Reading on FGW

East of Reading West you mean....

 

[radamfi]

(from ATOC section 17 http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/SCHEDULE%2017%20-%20June%20%2712.pdf).

Looking through that list, it seems that some TOCs have many stations that can't do reservations, yet others can do reservations at all or nearly all stations. There seems to be little logic to the geographical spread of the ability to do reservations. First Great Western, Greater Anglia and Southern have many stations that are unable to do reservations, yet South West Trains and First Capital Connect can do reservations at nearly all stations.

 

[Greenback]

Looking through that list, it seems that some TOCs have many stations that can't do reservations, yet others can do reservations at all or nearly all stations. There seems to be little logic to the geographical spread of the ability to do reservations. First Great Western, Greater Anglia and Southern have many stations that are unable to do reservations, yet South West Trains and First Capital Connect can do reservations at nearly all stations.

It's historical. Under BR's region based management structure different regions had different ideas about whether local suburban stations should sell long distnce inter city type tickets.

After the move to sector based management, things continued as they had been, witht he added complication that there was more focus on the bottom line, so places like West Ealing and OSuthall were not considered suitbale places for the investment in access to the CRS and more importantly, the staff training to go with it.

When Iw orked there, not even all the clerks at Reading were trained to do Advance tickets and reservations, Only those who worked in the travel centre were given training on that. So it was dificult for customers to buy an Advance after 2000 when it closed, it depended on whether the clerks still on duty knew how do them or not, and the latter was most likely unless they had worked it out for themselves.

 

[radamfi]

How is the general public supposed to know which ticket offices can do reservations and which can't? Is the only source of this information an ATOC web page?

 

[Greenback]

How is the general public supposed to know which ticket offices can do reservations and which can't? Is the only source of this information an ATOC web page?

There used to be a stipulation that notices at the ticket office must make it clear what tickets can and can't be sold form there. I don;t know if this has changed, but I used to see it a lot in the days when I used to read the notices at stations!

Of course this is completely useless if you have made a special trip to the station to buy the ticket they can't sell!

 

[barrykas]

There are a small number of stations which use Avantix Mobile as their booking office system (this is the portable machine which guards use and is operated by a stylus and touch screen). These genuinely can't sell Advances.

Au contraire. Having flicked through the Avantix manual one when I was bored, there's a flag that can be set to permit retail of tickets requiring reservations, though I can't remember whether it's at station, PDA or user level.

As to how you get the reservations, I'm not sure. At a guess, you'd either need access to Journey Planner or to phone up another station to get them and then enter the details manually.

Cheers,

Barry

 

[island]

There used to be a stipulation that notices at the ticket office must make it clear what tickets can and can't be sold form there. I don;t know if this has changed, but I used to see it a lot in the days when I used to read the notices at stations!

At any Southeastern station/booking office where I have looked for it, a notice stating when reservations are available has been displayed.

Of course this is completely useless if you have made a special trip to the station to buy the ticket they can't sell!

Indeed! I fail to understand why there are stations which are technologically equipped to sell Advance tickets and issue reservations but do not do so at all. I can just about understand why they might not be done at peak morning times in single-man stations, but that is all. In Germany most DB TVMs can issue all kinds of Advance fares, and in France the larger SNCF TVMs can even change or amend them!

 

[Greenback]

Indeed! I fail to understand why there are stations which are technologically equipped to sell Advance tickets and issue reservations but do not do so at all. I can just about understand why they might not be done at peak morning times in single-man stations, but that is all. In Germany most DB TVMs can issue all kinds of Advance fares, and in France the larger SNCF TVMs can even change or amend them!

Yes, it's a very curious state of affairs. I cna see why it would be more difficult in my days, when APTIS wasn't an onlien system, and you had to have a computer and data connection set up to gain access to the CRS.

It should be far less trouble now that the modern systems are all online and most offices will have access to the reservations database.

All I cna surmise is that it is felt too complicated to put restrictions in place as to what times they might be sold, and that it easier to just say that Advance tickets aren't sold at all.

Also, the Advance ticket training need not be done for those who are employed in such places, or the pool of reliefs that presumably these stations.

I don't know though; I'm only guessing!

 

[Sparks169]

Looking through that list, it seems that some TOCs have many stations that can't do reservations, yet others can do reservations at all or nearly all stations. There seems to be little logic to the geographical spread of the ability to do reservations. First Great Western, Greater Anglia and Southern have many stations that are unable to do reservations, yet South West Trains and First Capital Connect can do reservations at nearly all stations.

I can confirm that any Southern station with a ticket office sporting Shere SMART terminal can and will do reservations, no SN station will refuse to sell advance tickets or reservations, each T/O offers the full range of available tickets except for perhaps some very very rare exceptions of which I am not aware. Anyone who states otherwise is either being lazy or there is a problem with the system.

I can confirm all of the stations I have been to which are present on the list saying 'NO' reservations, DO issue advance+reservations and all other tickets.

I cannot comment for other TOCs however.

 

[All Line Rover]

Lets blame the clerk, for your information neither Hayes & Harlington or Southall do reservations (from ATOC section 17 http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/SCHEDULE%2017%20-%20June%20%2712.pdf).
Only Reading, Maidenhead, Ealing Broadway, Paddington & Slough do reservations east of Reading on FGW

How does one navigate to this file on the ATOC website? I'd find it reassuring to know that the file can be located without the need for a direct link.

 

[Brucey]

How does one navigate to this file on the ATOC website? I'd find it reassuring to know that the file can be located without the need for a direct link.

You can navigate to it from this page: http://www.atoc.org/about-atoc/rail-settlement-plan/governance

 

[Sparks169]

I will also note that alot of the information in the document is inaccurate as many of the opening hours are completely wrong.

 

[All Line Rover]

You can navigate to it from this page: http://www.atoc.org/about-atoc/rail-settlement-plan/governance

Thank you. I'd have never guessed the TSA could be found under that link!

 

[radamfi]

Whilst this state of affairs seems quite poor, I admit that I don't even think about buying Advance tickets at stations now. Mainly because I don't like queueing, and I would feel embarrassed holding everyone up. Also, though, because many Advance tickets are cheaper online and you don't get cashback if you buy at the station. I would guess that many people are in the same situation.

 

[All Line Rover]

Whilst this state of affairs seems quite poor, I admit that I don't even think about buying Advance tickets at stations now. Mainly because I don't like queueing, and I would feel embarrassed holding everyone up. Also, though, because many Advance tickets are cheaper online and you don't get cashback if you buy at the station. I would guess that many people are in the same situation.

I'm the same. I no longer see the point of ticket offices selling Advance tickets. All I want is more stations to have TVMs, to allow those who have purchased Advance tickets online to collect them more easily.

 

[Paul Kelly]

many of the opening hours are completely wrong.

They are the regulated opening hours, which aren't necessarily the same as the actual opening hours!

The times during which a Ticket Office is open are at the discretion of the relevant Operator. However, the Lead Retailer at a Regulated Station must use its reasonable endeavours to ensure that the Ticket Office specified in Schedule 17 against the name of that Station is open for the times specified except:
(i)
on Christmas Day, Boxing Day and additionally in Scotland on New
Year’s Day holidays; and
(ii)
on other Public or Bank Holidays at Stations served by a “Saturday”,
“Sunday”, or “Special” train service, when the Lead Retailer at a Regulated
Station must use its reasonable endeavours to ensure that a Ticket Office at
that Station is open during the “Saturday” or “Sunday” times specified in
Schedule 17, or in the case of a “Special” train service during the times
which are appropriate for that service; and
(iii)
during periods when no trains call at that Station due to planned
engineering work, unless the Operator responsible for the Ticket Office
concerned provides a replacement bus or other service to substitute for the
trains that would normally call at the Station concerned.

 

[Greenback]

I don't buy Advance tickets at the station either, but I see quite a few people that still do!

 

[barrykas]

I will also note that alot of the information in the document is inaccurate as many of the opening hours are completely wrong.

The times in Schedule 17 are the minimum opening hours that the TOCs have agreed with the ORR/DfT. Any changes have to be consulted on and approved prior to implementation.

 

[cjp]

I'm the same. I no longer see the point of ticket offices selling Advance tickets. All I want is more stations to have TVMs, to allow those who have purchased Advance tickets online to collect them more easily.

Bicycle reservations


Also it is often quicker to ask, if for example hunting an advance sleeper booking as Scotrail's site for this purpose is not the best.

And then the bicycle reservation