Railway 'to get 1000 carriages'

[Coxster]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6448327.stm

An extra 1,000 train carriages are expected to be provided for Britain's railways in a bid to tackle overcrowding, the BBC has learnt.

Ministers will announce that carriages will be used to lengthen trains on the most congested parts of the network.

Much of the extra rolling stock is likely to be used on the jammed network serving London and south-east England, where passenger increases are highest.

It is understood the government wants them introduced by 2014.

BBC transport correspondent Tom Symonds says the carriages - equivalent to about one-tenth of the current total fleet - will be newly-built.

The government will pay for them, to be leased to the train companies at a cost of about £130 million a year, he says.

Number-one problem

As well as relieving the problems in south-east England, crowded cities in the rest of England and Wales are also expected to benefit.

Last year, there was a 10% rise in the numbers of people taking the train.

Overcrowding has rapidly become the number-one problem facing the railways.

Train companies have been making dire warnings about the future, and passengers are being told they will have to stand more often.

The government is expected to promise the new carriages on Wednesday, and later this year it will publish a wider strategy to improve the capacity of the rail network.

 

[O L Leigh]

Two words: Platform lengths.

one TN

 

[gordonthemoron]

What? No double deckers?

 

[Chriso]

Fantastic news i wonder what will be built hopefully Northern will get some new units maybe even some Northern 185s (god knows what livery they would end up in) . More locally for my line the Thameslink route anything that will free up the remaining 319s from Southern even if it is years ahead (lol).

I just hope it is not the usual government spin

Chriso

 

[16CSVT2700]

What? No double deckers?

Gonna finance the guage widening then?

 

[ChrisCooper]

Extending platforms isn't free either. Whilst much of the network wouldn't be suitable for double deckers, I do wonder if on some lines they might be possible at without too much expense. The continental gauge isn't massivly bigger than ours though. It allows just over 1ft extra width, 7in lower at the sides, and 1ft higher in the middle. Continental width is consistant to the ground, wheras in the UK it narrows below the platforms. Personally, I'd look at an articulated set, with doors above the bogies and passengers going down to get to the lower deck between the bogies. It would have to be fairly narrow, but for suburban use it should still have decent width seats and gangway with a 2+2 layout. A country with lots of experiance making double deck buses that often have to be capable of passing under low road bridges, shouldn't have too many problems with double deck trains. Sunken gangways are a particular feature that could be carried over from buses, since the gangway needs headroom for standing passengers, wheras much less headroom is needed above the seats. Equipment usually found between the bogies would have to be housed elsewhere. The layout on continental double deckers is very similar. It's important to remember that we have had double decker trains in the UK, the 4-DDs, and whilst they wern't brilliantly sucessful, it shows it could be done.

 

[Darandio]

Fantastic news i wonder what will be built hopefully Northern will get some new units maybe even some Northern 185s (god knows what livery they would end up in) . More locally for my line the Thameslink route anything that will free up the remaining 319s from Southern even if it is years ahead (lol).

I just hope it is not the usual government spin

Chriso

I never saw nothing about new units, just carriages for the lengthening of trains. I don't see any replacement for the Northern units in the near future. In fact, I don't see the 142's up here ever getting out of Arriva livery never mind being replaced.

 

[thefab444]

I never saw nothing about new units, just carriages for the lengthening of trains. I don't see any replacement for the Northern units in the near future. In fact, I don't see the 142's up here ever getting out of Arriva livery never mind being replaced.

Yer, it would more likely that South West Trains get a fleet of 32 x 185, and the 158s/159s would be cascased to Northern and remain in SWT colours for a good 10 years.

 

[5872]

Yer, it would more likely that South West Trains get a fleet of 32 x 185, and the 158s/159s would be cascased to Northern and remain in SWT colours for a good 10 years.

South West Trains wouldn't never get the 185s they have just got more 159s as it is! If its likely we would be seeing longer platforms and more 444s and 450s it is cheaper than some suggestions or keep platforms the same and just get 20 x 450s and 20 x 444 have a good reliable fleet and no cancellations with no Thunderbirds needed because Ive heard a broken down DES can be Hauled away by another...

 

[Tom]

777fred, to now cover your points:

• SWT will probably never get 185s, especially following the recent stock shuffle. So you're right there.
• Yep, longer platforms. Although I suspect that the 450/2 growth order that was planned will become into fruition.... especially for the Windsor lines.
• Keeping platforms the same would mean there would have to be more services, where there simply isn't the capacity.
• Desiros and reliable in the same sentence.... come again.
• Desiros can haul each other away mainly because the 73s can only haul them at 5mph to the coupler adapter. Also, faults do like to manifest themselves on the other unit.

 

[5872]

777fred, to now cover your points:

• SWT will probably never get 185s, especially following the recent stock shuffle. So you're right there.
• Yep, longer platforms. Although I suspect that the 450/2 growth order that was planned will become into fruition.... especially for the Windsor lines.
• Keeping platforms the same would mean there would have to be more services, where there simply isn't the capacity.
• Desiros and reliable in the same sentence.... come again.
• Desiros can haul each other away mainly because the 73s can only haul them at 5mph to the coupler adapter. Also, faults do like to manifest themselves on the other unit.

Faults manifest didn't know that! BTW why dose a 73 haul it at 5mph?

And
What dose winsdor lines got to do with 450s and Platforms?

 

[Tom]

I've already said why a 73 can only haul at 5mph. Coupler adapter.

Windsor lines are already due to get 10 car trains, highly likely to be a formation of 2 5-car 450s.

 

[5872]

I've already said why a 73 can only haul at 5mph. Coupler adapter.

Windsor lines are already due to get 10 car trains, highly likely to be a formation of 2 5-car 450s.

When are 5 coach 450s going to come into roll ? and 10 car trains ? I wonder if they will quadruple Staines - Datchet , because back in 2004 or 03 Heathrow express was meant to go through staines and underground to LHR that would of been amazing Staines , 3rd Rail and OLHE !!:book: :tongue5:

 

[Kris]

I meant to scan some newspaper articles the other day including from the Standard.

The government wants 400 coaches to replace the HST's with HST2.

The idea is for a hybrid diesel/overhead electric with airline style - cram 'em in seating.

Hmm - Pendalino style unit? They have opened it up to all manufacturers apparently - to see what they can come up with

What about a 3rd rail Diesel hybrid? That'd be handy for the W.O.E. :thumblef:

Nah - scrap that idea - I'll stick wiv moi 159's ta!

 

[Tom]

Staines will never have OHLE. AirTrack will be third rail ONLY. There are 2 paltforms at Terminal 5 reserved for that, but if one comes along first, that will be taken.

 

[Kris]

When are 5 coach 450s going to come into roll ? and 10 car trains ? I wonder if they will quadruple Staines - Datchet , because back in 2004 or 03 Heathrow express was meant to go through staines and underground to LHR that would of been amazing Staines , 3rd Rail and OLHE !!:book: :tongue5:

In the Route Utilisation Strategy before the franchise was awarded - it said that the South Western Franchise had to make plans for connecting to Heathrow Terminal 5. Apparently there is an old freight line that goes quite close.

 

[5872]

Staines will never have OHLE. AirTrack will be third rail ONLY. There are 2 paltforms at Terminal 5 reserved for that, but if one comes along first, that will be taken.

oh! I wanted staines to be OLHE oh well still have the nice 3rd Airport trains going through at 70mph!ign5:

 

[thefab444]

You'll notice I actually said; it'd more likely that SWT get 185s than Northern get any brand new trains (not hand-me-downs).

Hmm, 447s would be good, basically, a 444 in fixed 10 car but with a 360-style cab front, and thicker seats. Then the 444s could be used on the PDL, 27 x 450s (001 - 027) could have one of their TOSWLBs taken out and stuck in 450101 - 127, an order made for 30 new 450/2s (228 - 258) and the 3-car 450s could be moved to some other TOC. Possibly up north with AC conversion. Ok, very expensive but hey!

Why the hell would Staines - Datchet be quadrupled? 185s are much more likely than that!

 

[Kris]

I had to google class 360. Uggh! That's awful. Looks like it's been chasing parked cars.

Can we have an ICE 3 style front please? Or even a Pendalino. Pleeeease. Pretty please with bells on.

 

[Tom]

I'd say its more likely that the airport trains become a part of an existing service with splitting and detaching at Staines. Does anyone know whether call on signals exist at Staines?

 

[thefab444]

I had to google class 360. Uggh! That's awful. Looks like it's been chasing parked cars.

Hmmm, what about, buying more substations, upgrading the 3rd rail to allow 125mph running, adding tilting to our unit and a move curved front edge...

 

[Tom]

Third rail can't do 125mph - HSE. Also the fact that the safety case only exists up to 110mph... would be a waste of time for the saving of about 5 minutes.

 

[Coxster]

Anyone up for riding pigs to the airport?

 

[Tom]

Me! Me!!!!

 

[thefab444]

Third rail can't do 125mph - HSE. Also the fact that the safety case only exists up to 110mph... would be a waste of time for the saving of about 5 minutes.

Yes, but propaganda, propaganda, propaganda!

Who cares if they actually run at 110mph, say they're capable of 125mph and how much faster it as and we should rake in some cash.

 

[Tom]

False advertising. You'd be referred to ASA.

 

[kestrel]

When are 5 coach 450s going to come into roll ? and 10 car trains ? I wonder if they will quadruple Staines - Datchet , because back in 2004 or 03 Heathrow express was meant to go through staines and underground to LHR that would of been amazing Staines , 3rd Rail and OLHE !!:book: :tongue5:

Heathrow Express was NEVER going to go through Staines!!, what you will get (the project starts after T5 opens next year) is Airtrack debating whether to run it T5-Staines-reading, or T5-Staines-Waterloo

 

[Tom]

Heathrow Express did initially investigate via Staines... although they wanted to go into St Pancras IIRC.

 

[kestrel]

Heathrow Express did initially investigate via Staines... although they wanted to go into St Pancras IIRC.

wasn't aware of it Tom, it was originally envisiged to have 2 services, one Pad-LHR direct and the 2nd St.pancras -LHR stopping at Ealing BDway -Hayes -LHR, but they didn't electrify the Acton bank section and paths were at a premium on tthe NLL, so was a no go.

The Heathrow Connect eventually running by taking over the Slough-Pad FGWL stopping service from Hayes-Pad.

 

[Tom]

Yeah, the NLL was a bit of a problem in that plan.

But HEx definately did investigate AirTrack as part of their initial plans.