Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central - 3 carriages only?

[GearJammer]

I don't think the Pompey-Cardiff route will ever get any 'new' trains and will always have a make do and mend service, i personnally think the best thing to do is put HST's displaced from the GW electrification on the route in 2+6 formation, yes i know they can't do 125mph on the route but i think they would be better suited on this route with a lower limited speed than in a scrap yard, they will still be better quility trains for the route than DMU's.

Only stumbling block might be that i believe the HST's are'nt cleared for the Fareham-Southampton route, but can they be cleared? If not run them via Eastleigh, passengers for Southampton can either use the SWT pompey-soton service or change at Eastleigh.

 

[Greenback]

Pompey - Cardiff doesn't necessarily need new trains, it just needs sufficient stock for the numbers of passengers using it.

although i don't think i have ever travelled on very early or very late trains, it is a fact that since my first journey on the line since the introduction of multiple units in the late 1980's, there have been standing passengers on every service I have travelled on.

 

[fgwrich]

I don't think the Pompey-Cardiff route will ever get any 'new' trains and will always have a make do and mend service, i personnally think the best thing to do is put HST's displaced from the GW electrification on the route in 2+6 formation, yes i know they can't do 125mph on the route but i think they would be better suited on this route with a lower limited speed than in a scrap yard, they will still be better quility trains for the route than DMU's.

Only stumbling block might be that i believe the HST's are'nt cleared for the Fareham-Southampton route, but can they be cleared? If not run them via Eastleigh, passengers for Southampton can either use the SWT pompey-soton service or change at Eastleigh.

I wouldn't be too unsure about that, Don't forget that there wasnt alot of differance between a HST & 442 -The only clearance issues on the Southern (apart from the Short Swing Link bogies) are only around the power cars. But, although im unsure of the route it took back, FGW Have sent a few HST sets down to Portsmouth via Eastleigh for 'Football Specials'.

Unfortunatly though HSTs may be a little far fetched for the oute, but something like a 3/4/5 Car 175 or British Spec 22000 would be perfect.

 

[SussexSpotter]

In a centrally planned railway system that might be a very good suggestion. Passengers between the two major cities of Portsmouth, Southampton, Bristol and Cardiff would be encouraged to use the electrified route with longer trains and more capacity.

I am not sure how many paths would be available though, given that freight traffic is quite a heavy user of the Southampton - Reading section, so it may not be feasible.

Another thought is that under the present system of fares, it is usually far cheaper to travel via Westbury than Reading. Maybe that will change once electrification and longer trains are introduced on the GWML, but it certainly puts me off travelling via Reading at the moment.

Well there used be a Brighton to Reading service that used to run up until the end of the last SWT franchise. I think and it ran to/from Portsmouth during peak times. South West Trains turbostars and sprinters were used, due to the Reading to Basingstoke section not currently electrified, but what i'm not sure about is if these paths are still available?

 

[Greenback]

Well there used be a Brighton to Reading service that used to run up until the end of the last SWT franchise. I think and it ran to/from Portsmouth during peak times. South West Trains turbostars and sprinters were used, due to the Reading to Basingstoke section not currently electrified, but what i'm not sure about is if these paths are still available?

Yes, I remember it well from my time in Reading! I was under the impression that one fo the reasons that it stopped was because of the increase in frieght, but I'm not sure.

Equally, I have no idea of whether there are paths available now, or will be once electrification is completed.

A direct train and quicker journeys would certainly help to encourage long distance passengers to travel via Reading. If the fares also did the same (with extra capacity there might be no need to price passengers off the trains) then that would potentially allow a half hourly Bristol to Southampton service which would predominantly exist for the intermediate flows. I have no problem at all with that!

 

[TEW]

One of the reasons the service stopped was the transfer of responsibility for providing Southampton-Brighton local services from SWT and FGW to Southern. That didn't necessarily mean the Southampton-Reading service had to end but the route did already have hourly Cross Country services available with more connections at Reading. Now the XC frequency has increased to 3tp2h as well.

 

[swt_passenger]

One of the reasons the service stopped was the transfer of responsibility for providing Southampton-Brighton local services from SWT and FGW to Southern. That didn't necessarily mean the Southampton-Reading service had to end but the route did already have hourly Cross Country services available with more connections at Reading. Now the XC frequency has increased to 3tp2h as well.

The SN Southampton - Brighton 'local service' introduction was a bit more complicated than just a 'transfer of responsibility' because it didn't exist in current form before the changes you are describing. SN's new service only replaced the SWT 'fast' Reading/Basingstoke - Brightons on the part of the route east of Fareham, because the entire west coastway timetable was rejigged at the same time, but Fareham to Southampton gained an extra all day hourly service, Mon - Sat initially, Sunday came later. (BTW you mention Southampton - Reading above, but I assume that's an error, as the SWT service ran via the Botley line, i.e. between Fareham and Eastleigh.) Also, the Reading extensions were a minority, only every third train ran through, so this was mainly a Basingstoke service.

Then again, IIRC, it didn't actually affect any weekday FGW services, they still run as before (2 up & 2 down) in very nearly their original paths. The main negative was to reduce the offpeak Fareham - Eastleigh service to just 1 tph, however that part of the route wasn't well loaded - I think the Southampton - Brighton is a far better use of the overall west coastway capacity.

Most of the SWT Basingstoke - Portsmouth extra trains that ran in the peaks using the same paths as SWT's Brightons (west of Cosham) also still run in the current timetable, up trains in the morning, and down in the evening - and they are a signifiicant part of the regularly discussed problem of using DMUs entirely over third rail...

 

[tbtc]

Well there used be a Brighton to Reading service that used to run up until the end of the last SWT franchise. I think and it ran to/from Portsmouth during peak times. South West Trains turbostars and sprinters were used, due to the Reading to Basingstoke section not currently electrified, but what i'm not sure about is if these paths are still available?

Can't say for sure, but that was before XC extended half of their Reading terminators to Southampton (i.e. an extra bi-hourly service from Reading to Basingstoke), so paths may be tight.

 

[SussexSpotter]

The SN Southampton - Brighton 'local service' introduction was a bit more complicated than just a 'transfer of responsibility' because it didn't exist in current form before the changes you are describing. SN's new service only replaced the SWT 'fast' Reading/Basingstoke - Brightons on the part of the route east of Fareham, because the entire west coastway timetable was rejigged at the same time, but Fareham to Southampton gained an extra all day hourly service, Mon - Sat initially, Sunday came later. (BTW you mention Southampton - Reading above, but I assume that's an error, as the SWT service ran via the Botley line, i.e. between Fareham and Eastleigh.) Also, the Reading extensions were a minority, only every third train ran through, so this was mainly a Basingstoke service.

Then again, IIRC, it didn't actually affect any weekday FGW services, they still run as before (2 up & 2 down) in very nearly their original paths. The main negative was to reduce the offpeak Fareham - Eastleigh service to just 1 tph, however that part of the route wasn't well loaded - I think the Southampton - Brighton is a far better use of the overall west coastway capacity.

Is there really that much demand for 5 'off-peak' services an hour between Fareham and Southampton Central (2 SWT, 2 SN and 1 FGW)?

Most of the SWT Basingstoke - Portsmouth extra trains that ran in the peaks using the same paths as SWT's Brightons (west of Cosham) also still run in the current timetable, up trains in the morning, and down in the evening - and they are a signifiicant part of the regularly discussed problem of using DMUs entirely over third rail...

Why is that it that Portsmouth faced the chop of its peak time direct link to Reading when the Brighton's got withdrawn though? I mean if they are using DMUs, why not extend it from Basingstoke to Reading, it would make sense surely?

 

[Flamingo]

Putting HST's on that run would be a nightmare, and certainly result in slower running times - as well as all the issues around increased station dwell times resulting from the combination of manual doors, short platforms and unmanned stations, the greatly reduced acceleration times away from frequent stops would be a killer.

 

[ushawk]

Putting HST's on that run would be a nightmare, and certainly result in slower running times - as well as all the issues around increased station dwell times resulting from the combination of manual doors, short platforms and unmanned stations, the greatly reduced acceleration times away from frequent stops would be a killer.

Not to mention it would be overkill for the amount of passengers, the HST would be just over half-full !!

 

[Lrd]

Is there really that much demand for 5 'off-peak' services an hour between Fareham and Southampton Central (2 SWT, 2 SN and 1 FGW)?

There are only 4, 1 all stops SWT, 2 semi-fast SN and 1 fast FGW.

The fast FGW services are normally well loaded. The Southern services can be quite busy, even from Swanick.

The SWT stopper is usually empty though but provides the hourly service to the stations along the line.

 

[Flamingo]

Not to mention it would be overkill for the amount of passengers, the HST would be just over half-full !!

Some people consider a half-full HST overcrowded as they can't get a table-seat to themselves and might even have to sit beside someone they don't know!

 

[Greenback]

Personally I would consider the Swansea to Carmarthen HST overcrowded if I didn't get half a carriage to myself...

But back on topic, I don't think HST's are suitable for the route in question, what is needed for a regional service with quite a few stops is something with good acceleration.

 

[Flamingo]

180's would be better, except the 1st class & buffet might be OTT.

 

[swt_passenger]

Why is that it that Portsmouth faced the chop of its peak time direct link to Reading when the Brighton's got withdrawn though? I mean if they are using DMUs, why not extend it from Basingstoke to Reading, it would make sense surely?

Maybe the Portsmouth - Reading market just wasn't anything like as important as you think it was then, or is now? The 0501 service that used to go to Reading prior to Dec 2007 was a 2.170, but it now runs as a 6.159, then waits at Basingstoke a few minutes and forms the 0642 semi-fast Waterloo service, with calls at Fleet, Farnborough and Woking. Anyone wanting Reading can connect at Basingstoke into an FGW service, arriving 0657. Maybe they just thought it was more important to provide more capacity towards and into Waterloo?

The next through service to Reading (0800 from the harbour) got in at 0937 - so after the peak. Then the first through service from Brighton in the weekday timetable didn't get there until 1223, three hours later. I always reckon this idea of a regular and well used SWT service between Brighton and Reading was not reflected in how the actual service ran, and the few years since have dimmed peoples memories of what the service pattern was...

 

[Kudoson]

It's a shame that XC left Portsmouth when the voyagers were introduced, it would probably have an hourly train to Reading, before going north these days if they did stay.
Also a shame that XC don't serve Brighton as the Brighton - Great Malvern train could start at Portsmouth, giving the unit an extra 4 hours, 40 minutes to use. That could still be done now of course but I don't think it would be fair on people living in Brighton.

 

[Matt Taylor]

There was never a huge market for Portsmouth to Reading traffic, the service came about because before the 165s came along the Reading-Basingstoke line was Class 205/207 territory and as those units were also used on Salisbury-Basingstoke Portsmouth-Eastleigh and Portsmouth-Salisbury workings the idea of joining up a Portsmouth-Eastleigh service and a Reading-Basingstoke service was something of a no brainer. Things changed in 1990 when the Solent lines were electrified but a handful of through services from Reading were kept.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Friday was a barrel of laughs. 1F20 1323 Portsmouth to Cardiff (1554 from Bristol) was full and standing when I got on at Filton. Had to stand all the way. It's not good enough. I don't pay £7.80 to stand in a toilet (which is what I did).

 

[Flamingo]

Go up to BPW, the HST has loads of room.