Manchester - Liverpool Electrification

[Chris125]

I heard a while back that the 319's were not compatable with the new OHL system, unless they come up with a fix of some kind.

Apparently it would need nothing more than a change of pantograph to deal with, so really not a big issue - mountain out of a mole hill.

Chris

 

[DJH1971]

Apparently it would need nothing more than a change of pantograph to deal with, so really not a big issue - mountain out of a mole hill.

Chris

Just something I read in a magazine last October/November.

Looks like we'll be getting the 319's after all then!

Look on the bright side. No more 'nodding donkeys'!

 

[Nym]

Oh there'll still be plenty of pacers

 

[D365]

Yeah, sorry to burst your bubble but new DMUs ARE needed, which aren't exactly forthcoming...

 

[DJH1971]

A bit of recent news concerning the Huyton to Wigan part of the project.

http://www.wigantoday.net/news/local-news/bridge-works-will-see-route-shut-for-months-1-5383682

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I noticed today that, on the eastbound line at least, there are 2 separate strings of OHL of roughly a mile each, installed either side of the former Kenyon Junction (where BB have an electrification depot).
The wires are not yet connected to droppers.

The new length at Ordsall Lane seems to run from just west of the main junction a short way down the Windsor Bridge line.
This is independent of the first new length on Castlefield Viaduct (there are still no masts at the western end of the viaduct).
Steelwork is going up apace over the Moss, with just a short stretch east of Glazebury without foundations.

The branches towards Lowton/Golborne Jns were also blocked, so some engineering work is in progress there.
Some substantial ABB electrical switchgear is also going in east of Newton-le-Willows.

 

[DJH1971]

I noticed today that, on the eastbound line at least, there are 2 separate strings of OHL of roughly a mile each, installed either side of the former Kenyon Junction (where BB have an electrification depot).
The wires are not yet connected to droppers.

The new length at Ordsall Lane seems to run from just west of the main junction a short way down the Windsor Bridge line.
This is independent of the first new length on Castlefield Viaduct (there are still no masts at the western end of the viaduct).
Steelwork is going up apace over the Moss, with just a short stretch east of Glazebury without foundations.

The branches towards Lowton/Golborne Jns were also blocked, so some engineering work is in progress there.
Some substantial ABB electrical switchgear is also going in east of Newton-le-Willows.

So, more catenary in place then?

I did see the the ABB switchgear under contruction a few weeks back though.

 

[Bevan Price]

Clearance work is taking place on the north side of the line, adjacent to the site of Huyton Quarry station. Area looks large enough for some kind of electricity sub-station or other large equipment. Can anyone confirm the likely use of this space ?

 

[L&Y Robert]

Indeed, normally Network Rail is abused for 'gold plating' everything. However, this is one time where personally I say go ahead and buy the most substantial stuff you can get a hold of!



Yeah it's normally in those areas that the problems occur mostly because one wire being brought down often brings the whole lot down! It's perhaps worth noting that on the northern stretches of the ECML where it's all canterlivered and there are much higher winds, than down south, the wires come down much less often.

See ECML on 19th Feb!:roll:

 

[ainsworth74]

See ECML on 19th Feb!

I promise I wasn't trying to jinx anything

But still it shows how bad headspan can be, 1km of wires down! I doubt (though I'm not an expert) that canterlivered wires would have failed so badly, certainly it must be very unlikely when the rolling stock is equipped with ADDs. It would be very nice if NR could cobble together funds to remove headspans from the southern end of the ECML.

 

[Beveridges]

Oh there'll still be plenty of pacers

Surely there will be enough 150s/156s replaced by the electrics to see off at least the majority of the unpopular Pacers?
Especially since we're talking 3 lines currently heavily used by 150/156 going to electric.
142s seem to be one of those trains which everyone hates (passengers, train crew and enthusiasts) yet they still just keep going.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Surely there will be enough 150s/156s replaced by the electrics to see off at least the majority of the unpopular Pacers?

From discussions on here we do not think so. :/ This is even with TPE and valleys....

 

[DJH1971]

I promise I wasn't trying to jinx anything

But still it shows how bad headspan can be, 1km of wires down! I doubt (though I'm not an expert) that canterlivered wires would have failed so badly, certainly it must be very unlikely when the rolling stock is equipped with ADDs. It would be very nice if NR could cobble together funds to remove headspans from the southern end of the ECML.

The 142's aren't nicknamed 'nodding donkeys' for nothing!

 

[D365]

From discussions on here we do not think so. :/ This is even with TPE and valleys....

No way will the Pacers be out by 2020 at this rate... Time flies. We need more DMUs. For real.

 

[Beveridges]

2020 is such a long time off as well, it would depressing enough to think that was the date they were to go!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

As the wires go up in the NW and start the inevitable internal cascade of DMUs at Northern, will Serco/Abellio stump up funds to keep the pacers and relieve overcrowding? I imagine there'll be negotiations with the ROSCOs and maybe the leasing costs of pacers will drop to a level where Northern can afford to keep them on...

 

[WatcherZero]

With Northern its the Dft that dictates the quantity of rolling stock at the moment as they have to agree to subsidise extra units in service. Lot of lengthy arm twisting required to get the Government to even keep the 5 pacers released from the Manchester-Rochdale line closing in service locally. The Government wanted them temporarily stored and then redistributed nationally.

However its moot really as the franchise is coming to an end these arent question it itself will need to directly address under its own tenure. By the way pacer leasing costs are already rock bottom priced, its part of the problem that it wouldnt be cost-effective to replace them with something more modern and fuel efficent as the difference in leasing would outweigh the operational savings.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

According to the DFT rolling stock procurement is a matter or the train companies to deal with,well so they keep saying anyway.

Yeah, right!.....

 

[ainsworth74]

According to the DFT rolling stock procurement is a matter or the train companies to deal with,well so they keep saying anyway.

Well it was for the companies, then it was the SRA, then the DfT and now we're back to it being the companies. Apart from IEP, that you've got to use if we tell you to. Or if we want you to order some 377s to ensure we don't look silly due to delays with signing the Thameslink Rolling Stock contract...

:roll:

 

[bramling]

So, more catenary in place then?

I did see the the ABB switchgear under contruction a few weeks back though.

Anyone got any photos? I presume the substation location is on the Manchester-bound side just east of N-le-W, where the old Motorail terminal used to be?

Have the substation locations been finalised for other sections of the Lancashire electrification yet?

 

[Beveridges]

Latest rumours are 2020 is the deadline for the withdrawal of Pacers due to the fact that the toilet is too small for wheelchairs.

There are only two ways around it -

1) Make the Toilet larger but this will mean even less seats on an already small train! So very impractical.

2) Keep Pacers on journeys that are a maximum of 30 minutes in length. This is the maximum legal requirement of a train journey without a Toilet. This would be impractical as there are not many journeys that are a maximum of half an hour, many Pacer journeys are in fact an hour and a half.

 

[HSTEd]

There is no limitation on the length of journeys without a toilet, see the Class 313 on the East Coastway.

The toilet would just be locked OOU.

 

[Gareth]

Does anyone have any idea what service frequency pattern is envisaged for the stopper services out of Lime Street once the Northern Hub and elecvtification are completed? I know there'll be more faster services but I hear little about the stoppers apart from them being earmarked for the Class 319s eventually.

 

[DJH1971]

Anyone got any photos? I presume the substation location is on the Manchester-bound side just east of N-le-W, where the old Motorail terminal used to be?

Have the substation locations been finalised for other sections of the Lancashire electrification yet?

The substation is indeed on the Manchester-bound side.

 

[WatcherZero]

Does anyone have any idea what service frequency pattern is envisaged for the stopper services out of Lime Street once the Northern Hub and elecvtification are completed? I know there'll be more faster services but I hear little about the stoppers apart from them being earmarked for the Class 319s eventually.

Apart from TPE's Scotland and North TPE route plans and conversion of Northern Liverpool-Blackpool units to electric there arent firm plans on what to do with the extra capacity only indicative suggestions by Network Rail for what the capacity could be used for.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The substation is indeed on the Manchester-bound side.

There is substantial excavation on the Liverpool side also, on the old Parkside colliery sidings.
For more switchgear I think.

I think the other NW substations will be at Stalybridge, feeding TP west of the Pennines as well.

 

[swt_passenger]

...This is the maximum legal requirement of a train journey without a Toilet...

There's no such rule - if there was we could easily list a whole load of services that are already breaking it, and have done for many years

 

[DJH1971]

I think the other NW substations will be at Stalybridge, feeding TP west of the Pennines as well.

I take it that will be for when the line between Manchester to Leeds gets wired.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I take it that will be for when the line between Manchester to Leeds gets wired.

Yeah exactly. That will be the westerly feeding point for TPE.

 

[The Planner]

Yes, Stalybridge is a given for the substation when the Pennines get wired.