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Implausible medical storylines in TV shows

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Xenophon PCDGS

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I am told that in the "Emmerdale" TV series, a woman in her 30's was stuck on the side of her head with a hammer that had been wielded with great force by someone turning to face her and that she seemed totally prone. Later scenes showed a wide blood smear where she had been dragged along the floor before being locked in the boot of a car. When the boot was subsequently opened, the woman then was not only able to strike her attacker, run away at speed in a straight line and later to speak in a normal tone with the normal speech pattern unimpaired.

Is it possible for such an attack as described to have no seemingly side effects to the brain that would allow a woman to run as described and then to engage in normal conversation ? I know that there are forum members with certain medical knowledge and I suppose that the script writers would surely have consulted medical consultants to the programme to check on such matters.
 
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muz379

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you would have thought .

have you never watched casualty ?
 

Butts

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I am told that in the "Emmerdale" TV series, a woman in her 30's was stuck on the side of her head with a hammer that had been wielded with great force by someone turning to face her and that she seemed totally prone. Later scenes showed a wide blood smear where she had been dragged along the floor before being locked in the boot of a car. When the boot was subsequently opened, the woman then was not only able to strike her attacker, run away at speed in a straight line and later to speak in a normal tone with the normal speech pattern unimpaired.

Is it possible for such an attack as described to have no seemingly side effects to the brain that would allow a woman to run as described and then to engage in normal conversation ? I know that there are forum members with certain medical knowledge and I suppose that the script writers would surely have consulted medical consultants to the programme to check on such matters.

Charity Macey was indeed subjected to the attack you describe and was afterwards consigned to the boot of an Audi A8. When the assailant her husband Declan Macey opened the boot she was fit enough to kick him in the face notwithstanding her previous concussed state. :p
 

ExRes

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I am told that in the "Emmerdale" TV series, a woman in her 30's was stuck on the side of her head with a hammer that had been wielded with great force by someone turning to face her and that she seemed totally prone. Later scenes showed a wide blood smear where she had been dragged along the floor before being locked in the boot of a car. When the boot was subsequently opened, the woman then was not only able to strike her attacker, run away at speed in a straight line and later to speak in a normal tone with the normal speech pattern unimpaired.

Is it possible for such an attack as described to have no seemingly side effects to the brain that would allow a woman to run as described and then to engage in normal conversation ? I know that there are forum members with certain medical knowledge and I suppose that the script writers would surely have consulted medical consultants to the programme to check on such matters.

I'm not certain but I think you may have missed a couple of obvious points here Paul, was she actually able to run at speed and in a straight line BEFORE being hit with the hammer and how could someone living in Yorkshire speak in a normal tone with a normal speech pattern unless they WERE hit with a hammer ?
 

user15681

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First, I'd like to say I am not a medical professional in any form, but neuroscience and the brain is always something that has fascinated me. It's a career move I'd possibly like to make one day, so in my spare time I attend open lectures/courses as and when I can, look up research studies in journals and read a lot of brain based books. As such I have built up some knowledge and I've been reading and researching this type of stuff fairly recently, so you're lucky I guess ;)

It's hard to judge because I didn't see it myself, but I'll assume it was a severe hit to the head just above the ear on the side of the head. A little anatomy lesson - the brain is made of the cerebrum (the wrinkly folds on the surface), which is split into two hemispheres - left and right. Each hemisphere has 4 lobes - Frontal (at the front half of the skull, dealing with executive functions such as control, organisation), Parietal (around the crown of the hair, dealing with perception mainly), Occipital (at the back, dealing with vision) and Temporal (underneath the temples ;), dealing with memory, language and comprehension).

A hard hit here by a blunt object is likely to lead to what's called a coup injury, where the area around the initial contact is damaged (the alternative being a countercoup injury, where the area on the opposite side of the head to the initial contact is damaged, i.e if the back of your head hits the floor your brain will keep on going even though your head has stopped and the vacuum at the front causes damage). This would likely cause a traumatic brain injury (TBI) of a moderate nature, with unconsciousness lasting over 30 minutes. When the person regains consciousness, a moderate TBI would cause immediate post-traumatic Amnesia (PTA) and some confusion, dizziness, nausea, disorientation, pain and difficulty with speech, to note a few symptoms. The PTA is most important though, as it normally leads to memory loss and a lack of executive function (i.e decision making, organising). Depending on the severity of the injury, these symptoms can last weeks and months, or permanently in some cases. There are also risks from fractured pieces of skull piercing the brain and causing more damage than was already there, or long term from pressure building up inside the brain (such as from a subdural hematoma).

Basically Paul, I'd say it's extremely unlikely she'd have got up, walked in a straight line, hit her attacker, spoke unimpaired and even remembered who she was if the blow was severe enough to knock her unconscious for that long!

Writers do consult medical professionals when writing scripts, but sometimes it doesn't fit the story to do what's realistic. In this case, he would have either had to hit her over the head with a soft toy and then bunged her in the boot conscious in order for her to be fine after, OR if the blow had to have been that severe she would have had no chance of escape.
 
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Strathclyder

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First, I'd like to say I am not a medical professional in any form, but neuroscience and the brain is always something that has fascinated me. It's a career move I'd possibly like to make one day, so in my spare time I attend open lectures/courses as and when I can, look up research studies in journals and read a lot of brain based books. As such I have built up some knowledge and I've been reading and researching this type of stuff fairly recently, so you're lucky I guess ;)

It's hard to judge because I didn't see it myself, but I'll assume it was a severe hit to the head just above the ear on the side of the head. A little anatomy lesson - the brain is made of the cerebrum (the wrinkly folds on the surface), which is split into two hemispheres - left and right. Each hemisphere has 4 lobes - Frontal (at the front half of the skull, dealing with executive functions such as control, organisation), Parietal (around the crown of the hair, dealing with perception mainly), Occipital (at the back, dealing with vision) and Temporal (underneath the temples ;), dealing with memory, language and comprehension).

A hard hit here by a blunt object is likely to lead to what's called a coup injury, where the area around the initial contact is damaged (the alternative being a countercoup injury, where the area on the opposite side of the head to the initial contact is damaged, i.e if the back of your head hits the floor your brain will keep on going even though your head has stopped and the vacuum at the front causes damage). This would likely cause a traumatic brain injury (TBI) of a moderate nature, with unconsciousness lasting over 30 minutes. When the person regains consciousness, a moderate TBI would cause immediate post-traumatic Amnesia (PTA) and some confusion, dizziness, nausea, disorientation, pain and difficulty with speech, to note a few symptoms. The PTA is most important though, as it normally leads to memory loss and a lack of executive function (i.e decision making, organising). Depending on the severity of the injury, these symptoms can last weeks and months, or permanently in some cases. There are also risks from fractured pieces of skull piercing the brain and causing more damage than was already there, or long term from pressure building up inside the brain (such as from a subdural hematoma).

Basically Paul, I'd say it's extremely unlikely she'd have got up, walked in a straight line, hit her attacker, spoke unimpaired and even remembered who she was if the blow was severe enough to knock her unconscious for that long!

Writers do consult medical professionals when writing scripts, but sometimes it doesn't fit the story to do what's realistic. In this case, he would have either had to hit her over the head with a soft toy and then bunged her in the boot conscious in order for her to be fine after, OR if the blow had to have been that severe she would have had no chance of escape.
Or to sum it up in two words: Blindingly unrealistic.
 

Welshman

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and how could someone living in Yorkshire speak in a normal tone with a normal speech pattern unless they WERE hit with a hammer ?

Eeeeeh lad, tha's best watch out for thi' sen if tha' cums up 'ere spoutin' owt like that!
 

Johnuk123

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It's an entertainment programme absolute accuracy is not required, however ridiculous the storyline is doesn't matter to the people who watch it.
 

ralphchadkirk

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Head injuries are very complex things to try and work out exactly what is going on, so I'll just outline some of the most severe outcomes.

Just like if I hit your hand with a hammer, swelling would occur, and the brain tissue reacts the same - this is known as secondary brain injury. The problem with cerebral oedema (swelling of the brain) is that the skull is a fixed volume. The Munro-Kellie hypothesis states that the three main substances inside the skull - the cerebrospinal fluid, blood, and brain tissue are all a fixed volume as well, however due to the incompressible nature of the skull any increase in any one of those means the rest must decrease. This is important, as it influences something called intracranial pressure which is effectively the pressure inside the skull. It is normally about 7-12mmHg IIRC. Increases in intracranial pressure can be very severe as it can damage brain matter, shift structures within the brain, and most seriously, start to push the bottom of the brain (the brain stem) out into the spinal canal. When this happens, it is known as coning or brain herniation and is fatal. The other issue with a raised ICP is that it reduces the cerebral perfusion pressure, which results in ischaemia to the brain tissue through lack of blood supply.

When the brain moves from the original injury there is a risk that the small blood vessels running all over the membranes of the brain rupture or shear from the force (this also affects brain cells, that can be damaged by the shear and rotational forces when the total brain moves). This can result in a number of different haematoma formations depending on exactly where the vessel was ruptured. It has much the same effect as swelling of the brain ultimately.
 

meridian2

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Whether the medical science behind the stories is 'implausible' or not is beside the point; in most cases they raise the awareness of the issues and/or stigmas behind them, especially story lines involving dementia, cancer, Alzheimers etc, and that can only be a good thing.

Those that spend their hours nitpicking over the questionable science are doing it to satisfy their own personal dislikes of the drama, and they are almost always in the minority.
 

ExRes

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Whether the medical science behind the stories is 'implausible' or not is beside the point; in most cases they raise the awareness of the issues and/or stigmas behind them, especially story lines involving dementia, cancer, Alzheimers etc, and that can only be a good thing.

Those that spend their hours nitpicking over the questionable science are doing it to satisfy their own personal dislikes of the drama, and they are almost always in the minority.

Yes and no, obviously it's a good thing to raise awareness but isn't it pretty pointless if you then place unbelievable and untruthful storylines to represent those issues ?

So many TV and film storylines are based on nothing other than fairytales, I enjoyed CSI for example but know full well that the way the processes are presented is total rubbish, for a generation that is convinced that TV is the real world this is extremely dangerous
 

meridian2

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Yes and no, obviously it's a good thing to raise awareness but isn't it pretty pointless if you then place unbelievable and untruthful storylines to represent those issues ?

I think you'll find people are more than capable of discounting the 'untruthful storylines' from the serious issues, else I think by now most of these 'medical dramas' would've been told to buck up their ideas.
 

Johnuk123

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So many TV and film storylines are based on nothing other than fairytales, I enjoyed CSI for example but know full well that the way the processes are presented is total rubbish, for a generation that is convinced that TV is the real world this is extremely dangerous


There is no point watching tv or going to the cinema ever again then because 99.99 % of the stuff on it isn't actually forensically accurate.
 

ExRes

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I think you'll find people are more than capable of discounting the 'untruthful storylines' from the serious issues, else I think by now most of these 'medical dramas' would've been told to buck up their ideas.

Excuse me please while I get my ribs put back in order

Are you talking about the people that are more than capable of telling Coronation Street, Eastenders etc from reality, the people who shout at and threaten the actors in the streets, the people who cry when a soap character is killed off ?

I'm not trying to be argumentative but please don't mistake facts with commissioning TV and film scripts
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
There is no point watching tv or going to the cinema ever again then because 99.99 % of the stuff on it isn't actually forensically accurate.

Personally I hardly ever do
 

meridian2

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E

I'm not trying to be argumentative but please don't mistake facts with commissioning TV and film scripts

I think you'll find it is you that's confusing fact with fiction. Trying to justify fictional plot lines using factual information is a task best suited to a nitpicker, and as I said previously, they are in a minority.
Be argumentative all you want, or repeat your inane statements about shooting actors in the street, it won't convince me that you're little more than a self-important nitpicker.
 

Greenback

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The number of people who think TV drama is real is pretty low, but the printed media loves such stories and it's a sure fire way for those desperate enough to get in the papers to have a minute or two of fame.

Similarly, it is also a way for actors to feel good about themselves, as they feel their performance is so convincing that's why they want people to believe the characters are real. As well as that, it helps keep their profile up!

Finally, drama is meant to elicit an emotional reaction. At least some of the people who speak to performers as if they are the characters know of the separation between the two, but still enjoy the same make believe interaction when they meet someone in the flesh as they do when watching them on screen. Call it a suspension of disbelief, as seen in professional wrestling.
 

Clip

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If I was ever caught watching Emmerdale I would hope someone would swipe the side of me head with a hammer.
 

ralphchadkirk

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in most cases they raise the awareness of the issues and/or stigmas behind them, especially story lines involving dementia, cancer, Alzheimers etc, and that can only be a good thing.

I think you'll find people are more than capable of discounting the 'untruthful storylines' from the serious issues, else I think by now most of these 'medical dramas' would've been told to buck up their ideas.

Really? After a particular misleading organ donation storyline in Holby City, a number of people asked to be removed from the donation register. NHSBT complained to the BBC about it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-23575817

I find those who argue over whether the class of train featured in whatever TV programme actually ran where they depicted it or whatever just as annoying as you find those of us who find medical inaccuracies annoying. The difference is that in popular drama how important issues like organ donation are depicted actually has a real effect.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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If I was ever caught watching Emmerdale I would hope someone would swipe the side of me head with a hammer.

You will note when I set up this thread that I was reporting something that had been related to me, which I tried to relate as accurately as possible what had been said to me during the conversation. Most of you know of my views on broadcasting and that Radio 4 is my main interest will be reassured that I have not suddenly dropped my standards and began to watch such programmes that are televised.

Knowing how well that forum members can debate a subject, I deemed it worthy of opening a thread on the matter.
 

meridian2

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Really? After a particular misleading organ donation storyline in Holby City, a number of people asked to be removed from the donation register. NHSBT complained to the BBC about it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-23575817

I find those who argue over whether the class of train featured in whatever TV programme actually ran where they depicted it or whatever just as annoying as you find those of us who find medical inaccuracies annoying. The difference is that in popular drama how important issues like organ donation are depicted actually has a real effect.

Where did I say I was 'annoyed' by 'medical inaccuracies'? What you highlighted demonstrates my point: it raised awareness of organ donation, albeit they made quite a big mistake. To err is human after all.
 
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