Drive 'London' double dekker?

[nula]

It's kind of a bucket list thing with me.

I have a class I HGV or whatever it's called now (mine is vintage 70s), but would love to drive a traditional open-backed double decker (or do the conductor role). Is there anywhere in the UK that a saddo oldie could fill this bucket?

I should add, of course, that I don't mean on a public road (no PSV licence)

 

[starrymarkb]

I'm pretty sure you can drive a Vintage bus without a PSV but not sure on the exact rulings (certainly not for hire or reward)

 

[CatfordCat]

Subject to the disclaimer that while I'm involved with bus preservation I am not qualified to give "legal advice"

However, my understanding of the position is that if ALL of the following apply, then it is legal for someone with a car driving licence to drive a bus on the public highway

a) the bus is over 30 years old at the time
b) the driver is over 21 years old at the time
c) no more than 8 passengers are carried
d) this is not for hire and reward

That means that drivers at the many "bus running days" around the country do need to have full PCV entitlement (although if they are genuinely volunteering and the service is genuinely free, the driver CPC is not needed.)

These people are based in the midlands, and are the only organisation I know who offer a 'bus driver experience' day - http://www.wheels.co.uk/coach/experiences.htm

There are preservation groups / museums and some operators of heritage vehicles around the country who generally welcome new volunteers, and in the case of the heritage vehicle operators, some opportunities for paid part time staff.

Most are unlikely to be in a position to fund PCV training, though, and even if you do have a PCV licence, most museums etc tend to have plenty of PCV drivers, and will expect volunteers to do their fair share of keeping the vehicles clean and healthy, and some of the less glamorous tasks involved in a running day (e.g. vehicle marshalling) as well.

Newcomers who just want to arrive at 10.00 once everything's been set up, get in to a bus that someone else has fuelled and cleaned, do a driving shift with a generous lunch break, then push off at 5.00 on the day of an event and not be seen again until next year's event may get a slightly chillier reception...

In many cases, conductors are in shorter supply. While it's not the completely unskilled job some people think it is, the training is less and more informal than for driving - although again, volunteers who play a part in getting things ready for an event are more likely to be given first choice of duties.

Where are you based? I might be able to suggest a preservation group / museum locally.

 

[nula]

CatfordCat

Thanks, but I'm outside the EU in exile just now.

But I have bases around Coventry and London if there's anything nearby (although I'm happy to travel to wherever).

Edit: Also, thanks for that great link about driving experience days out. It looks fantastic and I'll certainly add it to the bucket list. A bit pricey, mind you, at circa 300 quid for one day! I could get a full PSV course for around 1,000 quid! But maybe I'm just out of touch with the value of the pound these days.

 

[Antman]

I'm pretty sure you can drive a Vintage bus without a PSV but not sure on the exact rulings (certainly not for hire or reward)

I was under the impression that any bus could be driven without a PSV, or whatever it's called now, provided fare paying passengers were not being carried, but please do check first

 

[starrymarkb]

I was under the impression that any bus could be driven without a PSV, or whatever it's called now, provided fare paying passengers were not being carried, but please do check first

My old employer was under that impression, but got a warning. Fleet of Varios going west after visiting the MB main dealer for Pre Delivery check ran into a VOSA checkpoint - All the drivers had HGV but not PCV - suspect they'd have had more then a warning if they had car licences, were not properly tachographed and it had been something bigger then a Vario (if it had been a Van or Flatbed body on the Vario they'd have been legal to drive)

 

[Trainfan344]

I thought the rule was a full UK Driving licence with no more than 8 non-fare paying passengers allowed!

 

[Antman]

My old employer was under that impression, but got a warning. Fleet of Varios going west after visiting the MB main dealer for Pre Delivery check ran into a VOSA checkpoint - All the drivers had HGV but not PCV - suspect they'd have had more then a warning if they had car licences, were not properly tachographed and it had been something bigger then a Vario (if it had been a Van or Flatbed body on the Vario they'd have been legal to drive)

These rules and regulations all seem so complex!

A relative of mine was a fitter for a bus company before he retired and he never had a PSV although he regularly took buses out for test drives etc, the rules may have changed since then?

 

[CatfordCat]

I believe I am right as regards historic vehicles - although I really can't be bothered to get in to an argument here.

there are some circumstances in which someone with LGV entitlement can drive buses - provided they are not carrying any passengers - although this appears to be limited to rescuing a bus in need of repair and road-testing a bus after repair.

What I will say is that at one point (up to about 1990, when the old style PSV licence was abolished) the law was quite a bit different, and it has changed subtly a few times since then.

I think I am right in saying that before that time, any bus could be driven on a car licence so long as it was not carrying passengers for hire and reward, so bus company mechanics could drive buses for any purpose except carrying passengers, and non PSV drivers could drive buses that were no longer PSV's (e.g. preserved buses)

It was also possible at that time to hold a PSV but not a car licence - I am aware of one person involved with a preservation group in the 70s who was a full time PSV driver for a major operator, and who occasionally drove a preserved bus similar to some still in service. Technically, this was illegal as he only had a motorcycle licence apart from his PSV...

Ultimately, I would advise anyone who does not hold PCV entitlement to seek qualified advice (and by that I mean somewhere other than web forums) before risking having their licence endorsed for driving without the appropriate licence (and without insurance, as driving without the correct licence tends to invalidate your insurance)...

DVLA leaflet INF52 is available as a PDF on the web and may be worth a look.

 

[Busaholic]

When I was a management trainee with London Transport I missed the chance to drive a bus on the famous Chiswick skid-patch as I only had a provisional driving licence - had to watch from the elevated spectator area. Mind you, having passed the guards' course on the Underground the previous year, I was entrusted to drive a tube train in an emergency!