Virgin / Stagecoach win East Coast

[DarloRich]

So your not denying any of the above then? And whats wrong with having good PR?

Nothing - it seems to work!

My point is that they didn’t improve services alone; lots of people did by working very hard. Virgin were the beneficiaries of that hard work yet try to claim the credit for everything.

The service is good, it is better than BR in that it is more frequent and more reliable, yet it does not serve as many places. On the other hand, billions were pumped in to fleets of new trains ( not, I hasten to add Virgins billions directly) and billions more into the infrastructure. For them not to improve things would take monumental stupidity!

 

[RichmondCommu]

It means you get comments such as.....



Note the latter part. The question still stands, how?

Northern Trains, FCC, Cross Country to name but three.

 

[DarloRich]

Northern Trains, FCC, Cross Country to name but three.

what are you talking about? None of those run the WC franchise. If they did, with the same benefits virign had they would also make a succes of things.

 

[Deerfold]

Northern Trains, FCC, Cross Country to name but three.

I don't see how 3 company names answers a "how" question.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Ah, I see. Are Megatrain tickets on WCML just another name for AP tickets or are they even cheaper?

I would say they are often even cheaper (I've seen London to Liverpool for £5 before - though sadly not on any dates I could travel on ), but they are only available to a couple of destinations, and - as far as I can tell - a long time in advance. I've never seen them for sale on any railway site - only on Megabus's website/, but maybe someone else knows differently?

 

[3141]

Buying loads of shares in Eurostar or Keolis, putting out the story, selling them soon after in case the real winner is revealed, sitting back with a smile.

(I'm not serious.. Or am I?)

If you are serious, tell us how you'd go about buying shares in Eurostar or Keolis, because I think Eurostar has only three shareholders and Keolis two.

 

[RichmondCommu]

what are you talking about? None of those run the WC franchise. If they did, with the same benefits virign had they would also make a succes of things.

Oh you think? Have you used any of those TOC's? My point is those TOC's would have not done as a good a job as Virgin.

 

[Andyh82]

Bradford (and Leeds) seem to do very well out of this service specification. It's good to see some genuine competition out of Bradford. Not sure if GC will remain sustainable though as VTEC will have the advantage of calling at Leeds.

The Huddersfield/Dewsbury service seems like a token service. It will probably be rammed with commuters unless it's advertised as pick-up/alighting only.

With extra Bradford and Harrogate services, it looks like about half of Leeds services won't be terminating there anymore.

The one per day from Huddersfield is just a token headline that won't make a difference to most people, you really need at least two a day to make an impact ( an early morning business service and a later morning leisure service, returning with a teatime/early evening service and a later evening service). I wonder where they will find the paths on the Transpennine route for this, or indeed platform capacity at Huddersfield to have a set sitting around before the service, and will it just be filled with Leeds commuters.

I hope they won't scrap the buffet counter. There should be at least a facility for a warm toastie and a half decent coffee, not just cold sandwiches and a hot water instant coffee from the trolley.

 

[RichmondCommu]

I don't see how 3 company names answers a "how" question.

If you read further back up the thread you will see that I was giving an answer to DarloRich. I hope this helps. My point is Virgin have done a much better job than those three TOC's would have been capable of.

 

[Deerfold]

I would say they are often even cheaper (I've seen London to Liverpool for £5 before - though sadly not on any dates I could travel on ), but they are only available to a couple of destinations, and - as far as I can tell - a long time in advance. I've never seen them for sale on any railway site - only on Megabus's website/, but maybe someone else knows differently?

They're a seperate pot to normal AP tickets - they're usually only available on a small number of trains to only some destinations, with even more limited or no availability at weekends. They often start at £1 (plus 50p booking fee per transaction).

 

[DarloRich]

Oh you think? Have you used any of those TOC's? My point is those TOC's would have not done as a good a job as Virgin.

OK - your view. I hold a different one.
And yes I have used them all. Regularly. Not FCC for a while now though as they have gone .


Can we just clarify what you mean by service? Do you mean train service or customer service?

 

[CC 72100]

The service is good, it is better than BR in that it is more frequent and more reliable, yet it does not serve as many places. On the other hand, billions were pumped in to fleets of new trains ( not, I hasten to add Virgins billions directly) and billions more into the infrastructure. For them not to improve things would take monumental stupidity!

And of course, towards the start of the franchise/ pre-pendolino era, things weren't quite as rosy as they are today. I think that Virgin benefited from being the right franchise holder at the right time, able to have new trains during their franchise and take the plaudits from the average passenger that comes with it.

Of course not everything Virgin touches turns to gold - while the 47s were a little long in the tooth, from what I've read on here, they really were run into the ground, with dire punctuality (and stock availability - I remember 5 coach sets on more than one occasion) as a result on the XC franchise.

The Virgin PR machine is however, a lesson in marketing. They've managed to actually be liked, despite being a train company, and that is some achievement.

 

[westv]

I would say they are often even cheaper (I've seen London to Liverpool for £5 before - though sadly not on any dates I could travel on ), but they are only available to a couple of destinations, and - as far as I can tell - a long time in advance. I've never seen them for sale on any railway site - only on Megabus's website/, but maybe someone else knows differently?

Thanks. I normally buy all my AP tickets as soon as they come out.

 

[RichmondCommu]

OK - your view. I hold a different one.
And yes I have used them all. Regularly. Not FCC for a while now though as they have gone .


Can we just clarify what you mean by service? Do you mean train service or customer service?

By levels of service I'm referring to customer service and train service.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

The Look North in my area is sceptical about the Lincoln service improvements. Saying it was promised in 2007. And rail minister couldn't gurrantee it will happen. The news reporter was also disapointed by the lack of Hull and Grimsby on the cards.

 

[bb21]

Northern Trains, FCC, Cross Country to name but three.

I am not sure how you made your comparisons, seeing that they all operate in different areas and under different conditions.

Things that can be compared include areas such as customer service to name one, which in my experience is much worse in the case of Virgin, who prefer to chuck vouchers at those who complain than deal with the real issue, compared to many other operators. (They may do but that is certainly not the impression I am getting.) I never seemed to struggle to get a meaningful response from EMT, or XC, or even Northern for that matter. Virgin's customer service department meanwhile always seems short-staffed, to the extent that I don't expect meaningful responses from them any more, because chances are that I will just be issued some vouchers and case closed.

They are certainly not the worst operator in my opinion, but also certainly not as good as they make themselves out to be. I really struggle to see how you reached your conclusion because how do you compare them? What did you compare? My experience also shows that personal experience is certainly not a good yardstick for service quality measurements because all our experiences vary. I personally think EMT and XC are excellent in terms of customer service but they are hated by a large number of members on this forum.

And of course, towards the start of the franchise/ pre-pendolino era, things weren't quite as rosy as they are today. I think that Virgin benefited from being the right franchise holder at the right time, able to have new trains during their franchise and take the plaudits from the average passenger that comes with it.

Of course not everything Virgin touches turns to gold - while the 47s were a little long in the tooth, from what I've read on here, they really were run into the ground, with dire punctuality (and stock availability - I remember 5 coach sets on more than one occasion) as a result on the XC franchise.

The Virgin PR machine is however, a lesson in marketing. They've managed to actually be liked, despite being a train company, and that is some achievement.

Nail ... head.

 

[cjmillsnun]

http://www.stagecoach.com/media/news-releases/2014/2014-11-27.aspx


--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
^^ Company to be run under "Virgin Trains East Coast" brand.

Shame. I was hoping for East Coast Trains and another variant of the stagecoach livery which I think looks excellent on trains.

 

[Iskra]

With extra Bradford and Harrogate services, it looks like about half of Leeds services won't be terminating there anymore.

The one per day from Huddersfield is just a token headline that won't make a difference to most people, you really need at least two a day to make an impact ( an early morning business service and a later morning leisure service, returning with a teatime/early evening service and a later evening service). I wonder where they will find the paths on the Transpennine route for this, or indeed platform capacity at Huddersfield to have a set sitting around before the service, and will it just be filled with Leeds commuters.

I hope they won't scrap the buffet counter. There should be at least a facility for a warm toastie and a half decent coffee, not just cold sandwiches and a hot water instant coffee from the trolley.

That should aid platform capacity at Leeds significantly

Huddersfield may be getting the Alliance Rail Euston service, so between the pair of them a reasonable service could be offered. The Huddersfield line capacity is a concern, TPE already seem to struggle. Northern have DMU's sat on the through line quite a lot (P2?) so I suppose there is some room at Huddersfield. It must be a five car service to Huddersfield as I don't think you can get a bigger IEP into Dewsbury.

 

[class26]

The Look North in my area is sceptical about the Lincoln service improvements. Saying it was promised in 2007. And rail minister couldn't gurrantee it will happen. The news reporter was also disapointed by the lack of Hull and Grimsby on the cards.

But now they have said they will do the improved Lincoln services won`t they have to actually deliver. it was, after all part of the winning bid, surely you can`t just make lots of promises, win the bid and then afterwards say well actually we`ve changed our minds now ?

 

[cjmillsnun]

Heres hoping its a disaster and a massive failure.

DOR runs very well and it is spiteful blind Tory ideology behind this.

Agreed.

DOR have done a fantastic job, showing up the private sector.

NB I don't want it to fail, but DOR deserve kudos for what they have achieved.

 

[westv]

Presumably we won't all lose our booked journey details when the new franchise website starts! :

 

[Deerfold]

If you read further back up the thread you will see that I was giving an answer to DarloRich. I hope this helps. My point is Virgin have done a much better job than those three TOC's would have been capable of.

I'm quite aware of that - Darlorich asked How Virgin had improved things in a way no other operator could. No, it doesn't. - even if you're suggesting the people who run those operators couldn't have achieved the same improvements it doesn't show no other operator could - that's what Darlorich was querying about thenorthern's claim - if you look back through the thread you'll see that

 

[cjmillsnun]

And Go-Ahead have a near monopoly on commuter services to London!

I think both First and Stagecoach would argue the toss on that one.

SWT is definitely a commuter railway as is a large part of FGW. Not forgetting FCC.

 

[infobleep]

With extra Bradford and Harrogate services, it looks like about half of Leeds services won't be terminating there anymore.

The one per day from Huddersfield is just a token headline that won't make a difference to most people, you really need at least two a day to make an impact ( an early morning business service and a later morning leisure service, returning with a teatime/early evening service and a later evening service). I wonder where they will find the paths on the Transpennine route for this, or indeed platform capacity at Huddersfield to have a set sitting around before the service, and will it just be filled with Leeds commuters.

I hope they won't scrap the buffet counter. There should be at least a facility for a warm toastie and a half decent coffee, not just cold sandwiches and a hot water instant coffee from the trolley.

I thought one of the selling points used to promote first class was the additional at seat service. If they provide that to everyone, it will not longer be an extra benefit exclusive to first class ticket holders.

 

[Deerfold]

I think both First and Stagecoach would argue the toss on that one.

SWT is definitely a commuter railway as is a large part of FGW. Not forgetting FCC.

I think you can forget FCC

 

[cjmillsnun]

Are they? Are they really? This must come as something of a shock to Stagecoach who trumpet Megabus as a huge success.

In that it is a cheap service to run that makes a lot of money, yes it is a big success, however National Express is huge.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I think you can forget FCC

D'oh... I forgot they are go-ahead now ...

Well there's Abellio GA

 

[Deerfold]

I thought one of the selling points used to promote first class was the additional at seat service. If they provide that to everyone, it will not longer be an extra benefit exclusive to first class ticket holders.

There's nothing in what you're quoted to suggest Standard Class passengers will get the at-seat service.

 

[class26]

There's nothing in what you're quoted to suggest Standard Class passengers will get the at-seat service.

In first class its free whereas in standard you pay for what you have from the trolley it anyway !

 

[RichmondCommu]

I am not sure how you made your comparisons, seeing that they all operate in different areas and under different conditions.

Things that can be compared include areas such as customer service to name one, which in my experience is much worse in the case of Virgin, who prefer to chuck vouchers at those who complain than deal with the real issue, compared to many other operators. (They may do but that is certainly not the impression I am getting.) I never seemed to struggle to get a meaningful response from EMT, or XC, or even Northern for that matter. Virgin's customer service department meanwhile always seems short-staffed, to the extent that I don't expect meaningful responses from them any more, because chances are that I will just be issued some vouchers and case closed.

They are certainly not the worst operator in my opinion, but also certainly not as good as they make themselves out to be. I really struggle to see how you reached your conclusion because how do you compare them? What did you compare?

I have yet to get on a train run by Northern that is clean, so I can't believe that would be any different if they were operating on the WCML. The same went for FCC and their levels of communication when something went wrong were virtually none existant. I have no reason to believe that would be any different if they were running the WCML franchise.

In terms of Virgin's response to issues resulting from using their service, in terms of delays that is in my experience almost always down to either NR or other operators. In which case there is very little that they can do to fix the problem and vouchers are better than nothing.

If I thought Virgin were not making an effort to look after their customers I would drive or on the odd occasion take a flight.

 

[cjmillsnun]

You are aware that Virgin Trains (West Coast) is 49% owned by Stagecoach? And that East Midlands Trains (that operate on the MML) is 100% owned by Stagecoach?

And one of the busiest commuter TOCS in the country (SWT)