ATW to Rebrand Gerald Premier Service

[Greenback]

Call me modern but I think they should travel Standard so they know what most normal people travel like.

Call me anything but they have to travel standard on ATW unless they use Gerald.

 

[AmeralGunson]

Not my pictures but hopefully this one will make that clear and the comments on this one might explain why it isn't as clear anymore

Ah, I see. It's all to do with that quaint noise that the Welsh call a language. I'm never quite sure whether the person communicating has a lisping cough or is speaking.

 

[Llanigraham]

Ah, I see. It's all to do with that quaint noise that the Welsh call a language. I'm never quite sure whether the person communicating has a lisping cough or is speaking.

Ydych yn chwilio am drwbl , Saesneg! :roll:

 

[merlodlliw]

I have received this e mail timed at 0822 this morning 28th November, It is from the stakeholder Manager at ATW. I had asked various questions, the last response will be of relevance as it refers to Gerald.

Bob



There is no indication on VT timetables that the service is BHX so one would assume it will run. What we are saying is, if there is a question mark over it running, we will step in. This may be confusing I accept but I am not sure what else I can suggest as it’s their train.







On the catering issue, I regret I am unable to confirm any arrangements as I write.



Regards …name removed.

anyone wishing to see the e mail, please PM me.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Ydych yn chwilio am drwbl , Saesneg! :roll:

Smiled when I read this Ydych yn chwilio am drwbl , Saesneg!

I am sure hes not looking trouble most obviously been listening to Huntos.

 

[krus_aragon]

Ah, I see. It's all to do with that quaint noise that the Welsh call a language. I'm never quite sure whether the person communicating has a lisping cough or is speaking.

Er, in this case, it's more to do with the Medieval chronologer that travelled and wrote about Wales than the language. After all, though the headboard uses "Gerallt", most posters here refer to the train as "Gerald". You could equally resort to Latin, and call him (and his railway namesake) Giraldus Cambrensis!

 

[PHILIPE]

I have received this e mail timed at 0822 this morning 28th November, It is from the stakeholder Manager at ATW. I had asked various questions, the last response will be of relevance as it refers to Gerald.



anyone wishing to see the e mail, please PM me.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Smiled when I read this Ydych yn chwilio am drwbl , Saesneg!

I am sure hes not looking trouble most obviously been listening to Huntos.

Efallai fydd e ddim yn gwawd yr iaith yn y dyfodol
Saesneg:- For the benefit of the person concerned
Perhaps he won't ridicule the Welsh language in the future

 

[merlodlliw]

Efallai fydd e ddim yn gwawd yr iaith yn y dyfodol
Saesneg:- For the benefit of the person concerned
Perhaps he won't ridicule the Welsh language in the future

OK chaps lets get back to the subject, any more news? anything further to the official ATW statement I put up.

 

[TEW]

I dined on the service last night. The host was certainly under the impression that the chefs had now been saved and will continue post December.

 

[berneyarms]

If it is true, I'm delighted for them. I'm sorry that they have had to be put through this amount of uncertainty about their jobs and livelihoods. Having been through that experience myself in the past, it is a horrible one. I think sometimes people have forgotten that there are human beings at the centre of this.

I suppose that it is a kind of stay of execution however, as the entire train will be up for review during Spring 2015, so perhaps the WAG have decided to make any changes next May in one go rather than piecemeal.

As for the free food, I certainly do not have an issue with it as the differential between the first class and standard class prices (even at advance rates) would more than offset the cost of the meal.

The onboard service should be marketed better online, as the fact that people can purchase a meal certainly is not advertised anywhere.

 

[PHILIPE]

If it is discontinued from May 2015, what becomes of the 07 47 Wrexham to Shrewsbury then. I know that is on another thread but have just thrown it in here as the May TT is mentioned.

 

[berneyarms]

If it is discontinued from May 2015, what becomes of the 07 47 Wrexham to Shrewsbury then. I know that is on another thread but have just thrown it in here as the May TT is mentioned.

Well that, the fact that this train fulfills a franchise obligation northbound and also the lack of other rolling stock suggests to me that ATW may have a solid argument for its retention.

 

[merlodlliw]

If it is discontinued from May 2015, what becomes of the 07 47 Wrexham to Shrewsbury then. I know that is on another thread but have just thrown it in here as the May TT is mentioned.

We have taken this up with Politicians and pointed out "Gerald" is not a franchise service and could be pulled at any time.
ATW have not come off the shelf and on Thursday at a meeting in Shrewsbury an ATW Manager said "It is a direct result of the Minister wanting a Cambrian Hourly Trial that the 158 will be switched off the 0747 and put on the Cambrian".
It all depends on whether WG stump up the funding to keep "Gerald" running from next May in its present form.

I was also told on Thursday North Wales AMs had been quizzed about losing the Chef Service, one such Politician told me he was not bothered either way,but it may well look like the three Ministers seen using the First service on Gerald may have had an input to save the travelling Chef.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Well that, the fact that this train fulfills a franchise obligation northbound and also the lack of other rolling stock suggests to me that ATW may have a solid argument for its retention.

From May if "Gerald" calls at Ruabon/Chirk and busy Gobowen from next May,it will be following a franchise obligation, however I dont know if ORR will see it that way, the ORR I understand were not too happy about "Gerald" taking a franchise path, and ATW had to put on the 0747 to comply.
WG insisted "Gerald" stopped at Wrexham on its way to Cardiff. 100 or so who travel between Chester and Wrexham for work and Uni arrive in Wrexham on "Gerald" as anyone who travels on "Gerald" will note.

 

[Gareth Marston]

If it is discontinued from May 2015, what becomes of the 07 47 Wrexham to Shrewsbury then. I know that is on another thread but have just thrown it in here as the May TT is mentioned.

At the top of the pile is a Ministeral commitment to extra services on the Cambrian from May 15. As has been pointed out many times there are 3 etcs fitted class 158's doing diagrams in South Wales every day. Perhaps the 158 off the Ebbw Vale line should come north?

 

[PHILIPE]

At the top of the pile is a Ministeral commitment to extra services on the Cambrian from May 15. As has been pointed out many times there are 3 etcs fitted class 158's doing diagrams in South Wales every day. Perhaps the 158 off the Ebbw Vale line should come north?

There is no 158 exclusively on the Ebbw Vale route. They intermix with Maesteg, Cheltenham, Pembroke Dock and Fishguard services.

 

[berneyarms]

At the top of the pile is a Ministeral commitment to extra services on the Cambrian from May 15. As has been pointed out many times there are 3 etcs fitted class 158's doing diagrams in South Wales every day. Perhaps the 158 off the Ebbw Vale line should come north?

And replace them with what?

When a 158 replaces a 175, the replacement 150/pacer set is presumably coming from the maintenance cover reserve rather than available sets.

The company is quite simply utilising every available asset that it has.

And as Philipe mentions they do a complete mix of services in South and West Wales.

 

[Gareth Marston]

There is no 158 exclusively on the Ebbw Vale route. They intermix with Maesteg, Cheltenham, Pembroke Dock and Fishguard services.

Cancel Gerald in May 15 you"ll have either the extra embarrassment of no train between Chester and Shrewsbury in AM peak and more trains on Cambrian or keeping the S to C train and no Cambrian extras. Send a 158 north and replace it with a 150 and cut a 4 car Pacer formation to a 2 car and probably no one much apart from on this forum will notice anything different running through Cardiff Queen St.

 

[trainophile]

Has anyone else apart from me tried a dummy ticket booking post-12/12?

Very strange, tested on 15th and 16th January, on Eastcoast and ATW booking sites, and they both show no direct HHD-CDF First Class southbound services, but the 1716 northbound is available to book First Class.

On the EC site, clicking in 1st Class only offers VT/ATW services with a change at Crewe. Advance 1st Class yields "20 trains unavailable for your selected fare", i.e. everything greyed out. Hovering over the information button for 0533 ex-HHD (which incidentally does have a price, but greyed out), is the message "This service has no first class", however opening the information panel finds the descriptor "Restaurant in First Class only and onboard catering service".

All the information details for the northbound service are as it is currently.

Either they don't know what is happening yet, or updating the booking engines is a work in progress.

 

[AmeralGunson]

Efallai fydd e ddim yn gwawd yr iaith yn y dyfodol
Saesneg:- For the benefit of the person concerned
Perhaps he won't ridicule the Welsh language in the future

He's a she.

 

[causton]

Has anyone else apart from me tried a dummy ticket booking post-12/12?

If you actually look at the timetables (on RealTimeTrains for example) for this train, it agrees with what you say. Problem is, the facilities are set by flags, same as ticking a list, and someone's obviously left the "Restaurant in first class" option ticked, as for the 0533 RTT says:

• Seating: standard only
• Reservations recommended
• Restaurant for First Class passengers

So yes, someone's not done that correctly...!

And yes, for the northbound 1716...

• Seating: first & standard
• Reservations recommended
• Restaurant for First Class passengers

So that one's even worse, people still thinking there's a first class facility when there won't be...

 

[Bletchleyite]

So that one's even worse, people still thinking there's a first class facility when there won't be...

Where's it been said that First Class will be removed? I haven't heard that.

The one saying Standard Only is more likely wrong.

Neil

 

[ainsworth74]

We've also been told that some manner of meals service will continue as well (just not freshly prepared by a chef as it is currently). So restaurant for first class passengers may well still be accurate (for instance Hull Trains use that symbol and they don't even have a proper kitchen!).

 

[merlodlliw]

Where's it been said that First Class will be removed? I haven't heard that.

The one saying Standard Only is more likely wrong.

Neil

The Minister in her letter to me which many have seen, said All aspects of the Premier Service are under revue including First Class, an audit of all non essential services funded by Welsh Government has been ordered.
Many of you know my opinion on Welsh Government providing free food for First Class passengers on this service and I am sure it will be raised in the Senedd when food poverty and food banks are discussed.
Unlike any other rail service in the UK, Welsh Government pays for everything on this train and decides what to offer,it is after all their train,last year WG paid almost £3million to ATW to run Gerald(this figure does not include hire of stock) ATW just provide the staff to run it.
My opinion of course.

 

[PHILIPE]

He's a she.

Apologies. False impression rail interest male dominated !!!

 

[causton]

Where's it been said that First Class will be removed? I haven't heard that.

The one saying Standard Only is more likely wrong.

Neil

I thought it was going to a Chiltern-style Business Zone that is distinctly separate from First Class?

Or is that just rumours? If it is, I apologise.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Chiltern thing irritates me, as it clearly is First Class but is titled otherwise in order to assist people in cheating their expenses.

It can still be First Class with a flat fare upgrade.

 

[extendedpaul]

A first class advance on this service costs £78, a standard is £21.

Can anybody tell me... apart from the nicer seat / table what can I expect for the extra £57 ?

If I'm in standard is it possible to purchase the main course only of the evening meal to eat in my standard seat and approximately what does that cost?

I'm a bit of a fussy eater - hate anything even slightly spicy - so reluctant to pay a hefty premium and not be able to eat the meal.

 

[merlodlliw]

A first class advance on this service costs £78, a standard is £21.

Can anybody tell me... apart from the nicer seat / table what can I expect for the extra £57 ?

If I'm in standard is it possible to purchase the main course only of the evening meal to eat in my standard seat and approximately what does that cost?

I'm a bit of a fussy eater - hate anything even slightly spicy - so reluctant to pay a hefty premium and not be able to eat the meal.

Ive just looked at the FGW Swansea Pullman service to London, this must be a comparator, both being Premier Services with a Chef, I note besides paying the variable First Class fare, everyone pays £22 for the Welsh Breakfast, yet on Gerald, ATWs Flagship service,breakfast is free to first class ticket holders.
Plus on FGW Pullman , all classes can use the diner.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ive just looked at the FGW Swansea Pullman service to London, this must be a comparator, both being Premier Services with a Chef, I note besides paying the variable First Class fare, everyone pays £22 for the Welsh Breakfast, yet on Gerald, ATWs Flagship service,breakfast is free to first class ticket holders.
Plus on FGW Pullman , all classes can use the diner.

I have a feeling they might well get more custom on Gerald if they stopped calling it First Class and started calling it a restaurant car.

Neil

 

[Phil from Mon]

A first class advance on this service costs £78, a standard is £21.

Can anybody tell me... apart from the nicer seat / table what can I expect for the extra £57 ?

If I'm in standard is it possible to purchase the main course only of the evening meal to eat in my standard seat and approximately what does that cost?

I'm a bit of a fussy eater - hate anything even slightly spicy - so reluctant to pay a hefty premium and not be able to eat the meal.

First post, so apologies if it goes wrong.

If you're in standard you can order anything from the menu, and the staff will usually bring it to your seat. It's not extensive, but there is always a special at good value- last Monday it was venison in red wine sauce with veg, for around £9. I use the service around half a dozen times a year, usually up from Cardiff to Bangor, and would be sorry to lose it.

Question - if WG pay for the service then who sets the food prices? Assume it is not ATW as the price is so cheap.

 

[Llanigraham]

So that one's even worse, people still thinking there's a first class facility when there won't be...

Perhaps you would like to explain that?