ATW to Rebrand Gerald Premier Service

[berneyarms]

ATW did not inherit any, as for the new Manchester/North Wales loco services ATW want to shift people to and from work without any empty seats.
Anyhow I don't think the market is there for first in North Wales. The Fishguard specials are an extension of the three year trial, not as yet franchise on a regular basis.

Could I ask, exactly what your views on this service are? Reading through the lines, I do get the feeling that you have a bit of a bee in your bonnet about providing first class (and food) on this service (this is by no means a criticism, just trying to tease out what your opinion actually is)?

As I have posted a couple of times, it's all well and good reporting numbers at Wrexham, but really you can only judge it properly on the loadings leaving Newport in the evening, and leaving Shrewsbury in the morning. The appeal of first class is always likely to be greater in the evening, with the food offering, as people may have worked most of the day.

As Gareth has posted, it's quite true that in all likelihood the loadings do vary wildly from one day to the next, but that is rather inevitable when there is only one train in either direction offering first class on the route.

 

[gaillark]

ATW failed to market this service effectively. As others have said the WAG funds this train.
Arriva washed their hands of promoting and PROPER MARKETING siting its the WAG but the WAG also have failed to instruct ATW to market this service.
If there was just one person using the train, it would still run as WAG have funded it.
A shameful waste of public money and incompetence by ATW and WAG.

Turning to the service itself, ATW have failed so many times to advise that any passenger on-board could upgrade for a full meal service at a modest cost.

The on-board service is excellent and believe if proper marketing and promotion was carried out then we would not be having this discussion today.
Shame on Arriva Trains Wales and DB and the WAG for incompetence at the highest level. Perhaps the Directors and Elected Members should consider their positions.

 

[Llanigraham]

For a first post, that comes across as someone who would be against the Gerald, no matter what.
Why should ATW promote it? It isn't their train, they just run it.
Can WAG instruct them to do so?
Exactly why is it a waste? On what grounds?
How often have you used it, and between which stations?
Are you suggesting that all the Directors of ATW and all the AM's should resign just because you appear to have some political agenda against them?

 

[6Gman]

ATW failed to market this service effectively. As others have said the WAG funds this train.
Arriva washed their hands of promoting and PROPER MARKETING siting its the WAG but the WAG also have failed to instruct ATW to market this service.
If there was just one person using the train, it would still run as WAG have funded it.
A shameful waste of public money and incompetence by ATW and WAG.

Turning to the service itself, ATW have failed so many times to advise that any passenger on-board could upgrade for a full meal service at a modest cost.

The on-board service is excellent and believe if proper marketing and promotion was carried out then we would not be having this discussion today.
Shame on Arriva Trains Wales and DB and the WAG for incompetence at the highest level. Perhaps the Directors and Elected Members should consider their positions.

It's only the chef who is being dispensed with!

Not the end of the world as we know it ....

 

[Bakers1970]

It's only the chef who is being dispensed with!

Not the end of the world as we know it ....

Hmmmmm think you will find that All the On Board crew including the Chef will remain in the future post Dec14... And quite rightly so!!

 

[berneyarms]

It's only the chef who is being dispensed with!

Not the end of the world as we know it ....

I think you could be a little more diplomatic.

Two people are losing their jobs as a result of these changes.

That's not exactly nice for anyone.

 

[merlodlliw]

Could I ask, exactly what your views on this service are? Reading through the lines, I do get the feeling that you have a bit of a bee in your bonnet about providing first class (and food) on this service (this is by no means a criticism, just trying to tease out what your opinion actually is)?

As I have posted a couple of times, it's all well and good reporting numbers at Wrexham, but really you can only judge it properly on the loadings leaving Newport in the evening, and leaving Shrewsbury in the morning. The appeal of first class is always likely to be greater in the evening, with the food offering, as people may have worked most of the day.

As Gareth has posted, it's quite true that in all likelihood the loadings do vary wildly from one day to the next, but that is rather inevitable when there is only one train in either direction offering first class on the route.

I have always suggested all that was required was a buffet service, akin to W/S, and my view is, has the train is totally paid for and run for Welsh Government has an open access service, during these times of Austerity it is my opinion free food should not be given away on this service,all should pay
If the service was run and paid for by ATW, be it open access or franchise,then free food on ATW would not bother me.
However it is my opinion no TOC on the Holyhead to Cardiff run would have started such a service.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Hmmmmm think you will find that All the On Board crew including the Chef will remain in the future post Dec14... And quite rightly so!!

You have totally lost me on that statement,

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

I have always suggested all that was required was a buffet service, akin to W/S, and my view is, has the train is totally paid for and run for Welsh Government has an open access service, during these times of Austerity it is my opinion free food should not be given away on this service,all should pay

That is an argument, I suppose, but first class ticket holders do pay in the price of their ticket (£222 first open return as opposed to £89.80 standard return from Bangor to Cardiff). It depends on what you feel is included in the extra cost!

 

[merlodlliw]

That is an arguement, I suppose, but first class ticket holders do pay in the price of their ticket (£222 first open return as opposed to £89.80 standard return from Bangor to Cardiff). It depends on what you feel is included in the extra cost!

I still don't consider free food should be given on this specific service paid for by taxpayers, plus I get the feeling many pay far less than the figures you quote, by buying advance tickets, If you or your Company can afford £220, you can afford to buy a meal & remain in more comfortable surroundings, my opinion of course, if the service has I mentioned before was totally funded by the toc, It would not bother me.
A buffet is perfectly adequate.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

I still don't consider free food should be given on this specific service paid for by taxpayers, plus I get the feeling many pay far less than the figures you quote, by buying advance tickets, If you or your Company can afford £220, you can afford to buy a meal & remain in more comfortable surroundings, my opinion of course, if the service has I mentioned before was totally funded by the toc, It would not bother me.
A buffet is perfectly adequate.

Well, comparative figures for advance tickets are £73/£39. I'm just curious as to what people expect from first class! One of the most popular threads is concerning the first class on East Coast. I rarely travel first class, only did it once when I was still working (as a treat - and paid the extra myself). Given the popularity of it on other routes, I wish it had been better marketed by WG and /or ATW, but I have said this some years ago and don't wish to cover old ground!

 

[trainophile]

Advance fares are further discounted with a Railcard, and of course no-one has to travel the whole route to benefit from the catering.

I do feel rather guilty as we have greatly benefited in this way, to the extent that we could not have eaten so well in a restaurant for the price we paid on Gerald, which effectively made the train journey free.

Could have been more profitably priced, but seems it's too late now .

 

[AmeralGunson]

I have to ask...what's the "Gerald" service?

 

[Llanigraham]

I have to ask...what's the "Gerald" service?

As has been explained before in this thread, it is the loco hauled train that runs from North Wales to Cardiff in the morning, and returns in the evening.

At Shrewsbury tonight there were a dozen sat in First and more than 50 elsewhere!

And rumour has it that the Chef is staying!

 

[extendedpaul]

I recall during a Club 55 promotion about three years ago reading on the ATW website of the opportunity for a first class upgrade on this service. I think a "special" club 55 price was given, £25 or possibly less. I booked a travelodge room at Holyhead and bought a Club 55 ticket.

The conductor knew nothing about this offer and quoted a price about £50 to upgrade. I might have thought I'd imagined it but there were a lovely couple sitting opposite returning to Bangor from a day trip to Cardiff who'd seen the same advert.The conductor was very helpful and fetched an Arriva manager travelling on the same train who said she'd investigate. We all declined to pay £50 and were not offered any other way to dine on the train.

When i next checked there was no mention of this offer. I assume it was deemed inappropriate for some reason and quickly removed but I KNOW it was there for a few days at least.

I do think if there had been some marketing aimed at the leisure market the service might have done better and linking it to Club 55 must have been somebody's bright but doomed idea !

 

[merlodlliw]

As has been explained before in this thread, it is the loco hauled train that runs from North Wales to Cardiff in the morning, and returns in the evening.

At Shrewsbury tonight there were a dozen sat in First and more than 50 elsewhere!

And rumour has it that the Chef is staying!

There are two mentions that the Chef is staying, first I have heard,I have asked my local AM to find out for me what is happening,ATW have made no announcement at all.

 

[berneyarms]

Well that's a change - he was telling me last week he was finishing at the timetable change!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I do think if there had been some marketing aimed at the leisure market the service might have done better and linking it to Club 55 must have been somebody's bright but doomed idea !

I did just that just after Gerald started running.
The guard issued me with an upgrade (£22 as I recall), but later he returned (as I was tucking in to breakfast) and said he shouldn't have upgraded me from a Club 55 ticket.
However, he did let me stay! That was when Club 55 with railcard was £13 too.

 

[berneyarms]

Barry Doe writes about this topic in the new edition of RAIL.

He wasn't able to get a clear answer either!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Incidentally, Barry Doe and several other posters here don't seem to have realised that most evening main courses and breakfasts could be purchased at the buffet counter also by anyone in standard class.

 

[merlodlliw]

Barry Doe writes about this topic in the new edition of RAIL.

He wasn't able to get a clear answer either!

Attended a rail meeting in Wrexham this afternoon,several politicians present, one told us Welsh Government Ministers can travel First Class, we have three in North East Wales, ordinary elected members must travel standard and pay for food. So much for Austerity.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Attended a rail meeting in Wrexham this afternoon,several politicians present,one told us Welsh Government Ministers can travel First Class, we have three in North East Wales, ordinary elected members must travel standard and pay for food. So much for Austerity.

It's about time ALL Government rail travel was Standard, just as it is for most business travellers these days.

Neil

 

[merlodlliw]

It's about time ALL Government rail travel was Standard, just as it is for most business travellers these days.

Neil

It appears the embargo on Ministers not using First Class in Wales has been
relieved, this was news to us all at the meeting.
Suppose its cheaper than sending them home in a Ministerial car apiece, Cardiff Bay to Wrexham and Deeside

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

It's about time ALL Government rail travel was Standard, just as it is for most business travellers these days.

Neil

Is that really true? Seem to be a lot of business types in first on the Virgin train I' m on at the moment! It is easier to work in first, I'm sure!

 

[AmeralGunson]

As has been explained before in this thread, it is the loco hauled train that runs from North Wales to Cardiff in the morning, and returns in the evening.

At Shrewsbury tonight there were a dozen sat in First and more than 50 elsewhere!

And rumour has it that the Chef is staying!

Yes but why Gerald as opposed to Geoffry or Brian or Arthur or......

 

[Rhydgaled]

Yes but why Gerald as opposed to Geoffry or Brian or Arthur or......

Not my pictures but hopefully this one will make that clear and the comments on this one might explain why it isn't as clear anymore

 

[Llanigraham]

Yes but why Gerald as opposed to Geoffry or Brian or Arthur or......

The correct title is "Y Gerallt Gymro" but since some have a problem coping with the Welsh, the translation is "The Gerald (of Wales)".

Gerallt Gymro was the archdeacon Of Brecon Cathedral who traveled Wales widely:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_of_Wales

 

[Bakers1970]

There are two mentions that the Chef is staying, first I have heard,I have asked my local AM to find out for me what is happening,ATW have made no announcement at all.

As I mentioned previously.... Both Chefs will remain post December... Glad these guys will survive going forward.. Don't know exact details sorry

 

[Bletchleyite]

It appears the embargo on Ministers not using First Class in Wales has been
relieved, this was news to us all at the meeting.
Suppose its cheaper than sending them home in a Ministerial car apiece, Cardiff Bay to Wrexham and Deeside

They could always travel Standard...

Neil

 

[Hadders]

Call me old fashioned but I don't think Government Ministers should slum it in standard.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Call me modern but I think they should travel Standard so they know what most normal people travel like.

 

[merlodlliw]

As I mentioned previously.... Both Chefs will remain post December... Glad these guys will survive going forward.. Don't know exact details sorry

If this is correct, Welsh Government have found extra funding,not a word from RMT who claimed they were going.
It was only last week, reports were in these forums that-chefs to end on December 12th, catering staff staff were telling passengers this.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Is that really true? Seem to be a lot of business types in first on the Virgin train I' m on at the moment! It is easier to work in first, I'm sure!

VT run has a franchise service and provide a First Class service to London and other key Cities where business people want to go, Holyhead to Cardiff is not top of the business list,
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

As I mentioned previously.... Both Chefs will remain post December... Glad these guys will survive going forward.. Don't know exact details sorry

It would be interesting to know your source for this, Catering staff/ATW/RMT,
a rough idea would do.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yes but why Gerald as opposed to Geoffry or Brian or Arthur or......

The service has had many nick names, It started perhaps from me as the WAG EXPRESS during class 53 traction, it has now settled to "Gerald" has explained
by Llanigraham.

Welsh can indeed be confusing to non Welsh Speakers due to the many mutations,