Use of Tablets by Drivers

[badassunicorn]

Hello all, what is everyone's opinion on drivers using tablets? I've heard proposals recently of a TOC equipping drivers with Ipads, and fitting a mounting bracket into the cabs so that Shielas/diagrams/traction manuals and the rule book etc can be seen. There would also be live delay information. What do you think about this idea? It would be nice not to have to lug around rule books etc but is fitting a bracket in the cab a step too far? Opinions?

 

[Rich McLean]

It's just another distraction in my eyes. Also why have it mounted, when it can be taken out of your bag at an extended dwell or turnaround/PNB. You don't look at your rule book on the move apart from a clipboard with the diagram on which can be checked at Station stops, so why should iPads be treated differently?

I admit it would be useful to keep up to date with short notice changes, but what is wrong with control contacting yourself or the Guard (where applicable) to tell you this as of now, as I certainly wouldn't check it while on the move.

 

[ComUtoR]

I would say its a positive step. Having a display in the cab is not much different to Mitrac. Distraction can mitigated against by locking out various alerts and function whilst it is docked. It would also provide a easier upgrade path and allow for a more bespoke product for all TOC's and traction.

 

[thenorthern]

I would agree that having a display like that in a cab would be useful but they should be installed so they are not distraction for the drivers. A lock on installing new apps would be essential as well to stop things such as games being installed. As Tablets can be easily updated it would be useful for the drivers to get new information if needs be which would be useful.

One thing I personally think would be useful would be if the train managers and guards had access to rail company twitter feed so that if someone on the train has a problem the guards would maybe be able to be aware of it quicker.

 

[Llama]

Absolutely no reason for them to be in the cabs. Ridiculous risk of distraction.

 

[fsmr]

Easy enough to monitor and block apps We all have company I phones for last 3 yrs monitored by air watch for security etc. Times change and things move on No different to a driver having a news paper or book in his bag A trained and competent driver will have no problem resisting the temptation to use it at the wrong time apart from what it is there for. With a live data stream to it, to update real time info the possibilities for help are boundless Having said that I do prefer paper manuals to pdfs and often print the relevant pages out when fault finding an electrical panel

 

[TOCDriver]

Hello all, what is everyone's opinion on drivers using tablets? I've heard proposals recently of a TOC equipping drivers with Ipads, and fitting a mounting bracket into the cabs so that Shielas/diagrams/traction manuals and the rule book etc can be seen. There would also be live delay information. What do you think about this idea? It would be nice not to have to lug around rule books etc but is fitting a bracket in the cab a step too far? Opinions?

Which TOC is that? Absolutely no need for it whatsoever. GSM-R takes care of essential info broadcasting. Tablet good for cutting down on paper though.

 

[Minilad]

Personally I am all for tablets. Even in the cab. Can be useful if you have a headache

 

[Llama]

Yes - no issue with drivers being issued with tablets per se, but absolutely no need for them to ever be on in the cab. Having a 'mounting bracket' in the cab is just inane wibble.

Drivers read and digest their WONs, traction bulletins, notices etc; are conversant with the GO/RT8000 rule book, sectional appendix, local instructions and are competent to drive whichever traction over whichever routes as assessed thoroughly and regularly according to their company's safety management system - the same safety management system that strictly prohibits the use of electronic devices in the cab.

 

[GB]

We (GBRf) have been using ipads for the last couple of years. Initially just for rosters and rule books but can also now use it for wagon defect and loco prep reports that can be sent in realtime (there by having better fleet management), TAS, and soon to be able to produce TOPs lists with them. I don't know what benefit TOCs would have but for us they have made life much easier.

As for potential distraction nonsense, I'd like to think we are treated like adults with highly safety critical and respectful positions. I don't know anyone that has (or would) play games, watch videos or browse the net while either driving or performing other safety critical duties.

 

[Llama]

So there would be no need for them ever to be on in the cab then.

 

[GB]

You would need it on for the Timetable Advisory System and (in the future) to read the tops list. (Freight)

Despite popular belief, there is no industry wide out-right ban on having electronic items turned on in a driving cab, only the act of using those items while performing safety critical duties. Anything else falls into company policy.

 

[fishquinn]

Personally I am all for tablets. Even in the cab. Can be useful if you have a headache

How so?

Looking at a screen will surly make it worse.

 

[90019]

How so?

Looking at a screen will surly make it worse.

Wrong tablets.

 

[badassunicorn]

To me it just seems like TOCs grasping at unnecessary technology. In my eyes there's no need for a tablet apart from to cut down on paper usage.

 

[Minilad]

how so?

Looking at a screen will surly make it worse.

wooooossssshhhhhhhh

 

[Skoodle]

We've been issued with ipad minis at LOROL. They're wifi only. We store diagrams, notices, WONs, PONs, rule book modules, route maps, GSM-R numbers etc (although they're all in the GSM-R terminal phonebook). Usual mobile phone / electronic device rules in cab apply.

 

[jopsuk]

Some airlines now use tablet computers for all the paperwork for pilots. Why shouldn't train drivers do the same? no need for a mount though!

 

[muz379]

Some airlines now use tablet computers for all the paperwork for pilots. Why shouldn't train drivers do the same? no need for a mount though!

no disrespect to train drivers though but Airline pilots are required to have a lot more pieces of paper in their possession than train drivers are .

It would be a nice to have im sure , but is the cost really worth the benefit , what actually is the benefit ? .

 

[otomous]

I think it's a great idea. It would be great to have my rule books, publications, manuals, route packs, notices, rosters, the lot, on a tablet. It would save such a lot of space and weight in my bag. I don't think there's a substitute for a paper diagram for the actual work as I like to mark up route indicators, train lengths, cross off stops etc. I personally think there are a hundred distractions and it's part of the driver's job to minimise and manage them. Having it switched on and silent is fine, as long as you don't use it on the move. But if I'm suddenly asked to do an unfamiliar shunt or need to fix a fault and can't remember where an MCB is, it's then on and ready to check the relevant document. And it would be very handy to actually receive real time information so that we're not sitting there like lemons making PA announcements saying we don't know why everything is delayed while the punters are seeing the reason on their Twitter feed. Yes we have general broadcast facilities but I reckon I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen it used in 5 years - and knowing the signaller will be trying to deal with all the stuck trains you don't want to be one of a dozen drivers all calling him at once. The only stipulation is that if drivers are expected to use technology then there must be training and tech support provided for new and existing drivers - and this is where it's likely to fall down as retraining equals jobs uncovered. But not insurmountable, once everyone's trained then job done.

 

[ThePannier]

While I think it would be an efficient and modern way of doing things, I agree with some other posts in regards to how it will just be a distraction.

 

[Monty]

I've been told at work that SWT are looking at tablet/smart phone technology for possible uses in the future including as potential replacement for the Advantix ticket machines.

 

[Tom B]

As such devices are not expensive these days, they can surely recoup their cost in the administration of things like defect sheets etc - aside from the paper used! Not to mention the benefit of the data being live rather than relying on a printed sheet which may or may not have changed.

Are staff permitted to use electronic devices whilst in the cab but not driving? For example, if at a station stop, referring to the timetable, or referring to the rule book to check something - on a level that they might with a paper copy?

 

[Jamesb1974]

It would be a nice to have im sure , but is the cost really worth the benefit , what actually is the benefit ? .

Cutting out the the publication and distribution of 300 - 400 page WONs would be the first one.

Secondly, having the rule book in digital rather than paper form (have you ever seen the current railway rule book?).

Immediate access to the white and pink pages for freight operations without having to lug them around in their folders. Immediate access to the sectional appendix/diagrams, phone numbers etc etc etc.

I could go on.

The benefit would be a massive saving in print, publication and production costs. And an operator the size of say, Virgin or DBS is hardly going to be paying full face value for the tablets or the connection service.

My work bag is near to bursting point with paperwork, so moving into the 21st century and doing what every other office based job does seems like a smart move to me.

 

[GB]

While I think it would be an efficient and modern way of doing things, I agree with some other posts in regards to how it will just be a distraction.

How will it be any more of a distraction then having your own tablet or phone in your bag?

Providing they are not used when actually driving I don't see the problem. I also don't see an issue with tablets being mounted to display live running times. Train crew are professional, lets treat them as such shall we.

 

[arfortune]

Can't understand why this is an issue? They're now fairly common place in airline cockpits, and as others have said will be, I assume, personalised and monitored to avoid games etc.
As for the costs - am guessing not much difference in reality when you consider printing, binding etc and bulk buy discounts?

 

[notadriver]

no disrespect to train drivers though but Airline pilots are required to have a lot more pieces of paper in their possession than train drivers are .

Maybe it's something that bus drivers should be issued with as well unless the ticket machine fills that role?

 

[muz379]

Cutting out the the publication and distribution of 300 - 400 page WONs would be the first one.

Secondly, having the rule book in digital rather than paper form (have you ever seen the current railway rule book?).

Immediate access to the white and pink pages for freight operations without having to lug them around in their folders. Immediate access to the sectional appendix/diagrams, phone numbers etc etc etc.

I could go on.

The benefit would be a massive saving in print, publication and production costs. And an operator the size of say, Virgin or DBS is hardly going to be paying full face value for the tablets or the connection service.

My work bag is near to bursting point with paperwork, so moving into the 21st century and doing what every other office based job does seems like a smart move to me.

I suppose it would benefit Drivers a heck of a lot cutting down on having to update the Rule book and Sectional Appendix which are tedious tasks .

But I dont think it is going to bring about a massive if any cost saving for the TOCS .

They are now going to have to employ more tech support or contract out more tech support to support these devices . Tech support staff will cost more than the staff currently associated with the distribution of notices etc .

They will also have to keep replacing the tablets every so often , as well as the costs associated with keeping them all connected to the internet .

Also look at what happened at Nats earlier this week for a warning of what over reliance on technology could do .

 

[DarloRich]

i wonder how people will deal with ERTMS when the whole signaling system is run off an i pad style fitting

Surely there are practical applications for tablet based systems in the rail industry - issuing tickets for example

 

[E&W Lucas]

The key to this is the Timetable Advisory System App, which gives information as time vs schedule, next station, etc, and allows for the inputting of delay causes at the end of the journey. AFAIK, this is the only use permitted in the driving cab, whilst the train is in motion.

The benefits of using this technology to distribute notices, etc, are obvious, but if they can't be consulted on the move, hard copies will still be required.

The use of technology by drivers is an evolving area. Something ASLEF is aware of, and consulting on, I believe.