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City Link parcel delivery company.

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Bletchleyite

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There's just one case in which this would be a win for the consumer - if the company in question prefers to use a low-quality shipper. But regulation is not the answer here, the free market (i.e. vote with your feet and take your business elsewhere if they refuse to use a better shipper) already offers an elegantly simple solution.

Sort-of, in that with an Internet retailer to find out who they will use normally requires an order to be placed. That's what I'd seek to solve.

If such a rule were to come in, it would only work if customers were allowed to be given an opt out (i.e. trust the retailer to have superior knowledge of the shipping companies and select the most appropriate one)

Yodel is in my experience so bad that it is never the appropriate one. Other than that it is cheap, but I would personally like to be given the opportunity to pay extra to avoid it.

Neil
 
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DownSouth

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Sort-of, in that with an Internet retailer to find out who they will use normally requires an order to be placed. That's what I'd seek to solve.
Sounds like you need to switch to better internet retailers who are more up front about how your order will be shipped, or ask them before placing an order.

Withdraw your business from the others and tell them why, they'll get the message in good time.
 

Butts

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This should come as no surprise considering its previous owner Rentokil Initial sold Citylink for £1 to it's current principal.
 

infobleep

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The current owner was a restructuring company so they thought by buying it they would turn a new corner. Sadly for them it didn't work out or the staff.

One time I had to send something back to Amazon. I gave a work address and two phone numbers they could ring, my office desk and my mobile. I was on the third floor and there was a large reception desk downstairs. One company, I forget which, failed to get hold of me the first time despite the two options given to Amazon.

Amazon then switched to Yodel. They to failed. Everytime they would ring my office phone and I'd be away from my desk with my mobile in hand. They never rang my mobile, despite that being the alternative option. I had no way of knowing when they would turn up to collect of course.

I didn't ring up every single day to get Amazon to arrange another collection but certainly a reason number of days over the course of more than a month. I wanted to see how long it would last before they successfully followed my simple instructions. Amazon customer services kept saying, oh it will definitely be collected next time. Amazon were more than happy to have my parcel collected from work, despite these issues! Eventually I got bored of ringing them and gave the parcel to my parents and got it collected from them. No doubt eventually a driver would have got hold of me when I wasn't at lunch. Bear in mind I took lunch at different times each day. All they had to do was ring my mobile and I'd go down and given them the parcel. I wonder how many minutes were wasted by drivers not following or being given my simple instructions.

It was over the deadline for the official return by the time Amazon got the parcel back. That perfectly sums up how good Yodel is.
 

DarloRich

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No business owner ever does this deliberately, they are always trying to hang on as long as they can and they never get to choose the time that the bailiffs come to the door.

Are you so naive as to think no business owner ever uses administration to their benefit or as a tool? I don’t think you have had much exposure to the corporate world if you think that is the case!

Strange that you couldn’t manage a word of compassion for the poor people who have lost their jobs.

You must agree, surely, that:

a) The timing stinks
and
b) staff finding out via the media on Christmas day is pretty shoddy.

but at least the poor owners will be ok eh?


I believe the Daily Mirror has a front-page story tomorrow about City Link boss and his £500,000 bung to the Tory party.

Trust the Mirror - who have a pro-Labour bias - to turn it into a party political issue.

I dont care what party he gives money to other than it will no doubt generate a Jimmy Carr/Gary Barlow type response from the government.
 

Puffing Devil

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A lot of the delivery and collection problems that we suffer has been circumvented recently by the likes of Collect+.... They use local shops as drop-off points and (if wanted) collection centres. No need to worry about when the delivery driver will not make it - just call in on your way to or from work and get your stuff.

Same applies to Amazon Lockers and doddle.it, who work from stations and are great for commuters.
 

jon0844

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Amazon lockers are great and I use them whenever possible even though I work from home mostly. It still lets me pop out or have a rest etc.

Problem is the lockers can't accept all items (due to size, which includes when Amazon packages a bic pen in a box the size of a Transit van) and have recently been full and unavailable. Obviously this was due to Christmas but I can imagine it happening again as they get more popular.

But it is also good that you can now collect from a local post office as well as Collect+ newsagent/off license and use all of the above to return things too.
 

Busaholic

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Trust the Mirror - who have a pro-Labour bias - to turn it into a party political issue.

How is it not a political issue when a guy, Jon Moulton, buys a company for a £1 and a year later puts it into administration on Christmas Day? This is where UKIP are so wrong-headed. We need European legislation, reflecting the practices of many countries in Europe, not the usual British 'oh, well' shrugs, and I'm alright Jack mentality.

The Mirror may have led on this but I expect those arch-Trotskyites at the Financial Times and the Telegraph will be equally scathing by Monday.
 

Bletchleyite

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A lot of the delivery and collection problems that we suffer has been circumvented recently by the likes of Collect+.... They use local shops as drop-off points and (if wanted) collection centres. No need to worry about when the delivery driver will not make it - just call in on your way to or from work and get your stuff.

Same applies to Amazon Lockers and doddle.it, who work from stations and are great for commuters.

Yes, I like these services, though my nearest Collect+ newsagent is further away than I'd like and has slightly erratic opening hours I would like to see it spread.

Another organisation that could do with offering this is the Post Office, they already have the infrastructure for it as they already offer "Local Collect" on stuff that has been returned to the depot for a fee.

Though nobody ever seems to use Doddle at Cannon St - I wonder if it's actually making any money? (It's probably at the wrong end of the journey for most people to work there - the concept will work better at the home station I think).

Neil
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Sounds like you need to switch to better internet retailers who are more up front about how your order will be shipped, or ask them before placing an order.

Withdraw your business from the others and tell them why, they'll get the message in good time.

There are very few that will state it to you without you making a phone call. It's this that is massive hassle and takes away some of the advantages of Internet shopping.

To me, the problem is caused by the market for couriers being exclusively with the seller. It would be better if legislation moved this closer to the buyer in my book.

Neil
 

ExRes

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How is it not a political issue when a guy, Jon Moulton, buys a company for a £1 and a year later puts it into administration on Christmas Day? This is where UKIP are so wrong-headed. We need European legislation, reflecting the practices of many countries in Europe, not the usual British 'oh, well' shrugs, and I'm alright Jack mentality.

The Mirror may have led on this but I expect those arch-Trotskyites at the Financial Times and the Telegraph will be equally scathing by Monday.

I know nothing about Mr Moulton whatsoever, but just because he bought the company for £1 doesn't mean that he may not have put in an awful lot more since
 

Wyvern

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According to the Mirror around £40 million.

As Mick Cash of the RMT puts it "We're in a situation where at one stage in the last few weeks we've had a lot of media coverage going around saying people can't have delivery of parcels because there is not enough capacity . . ."

Presumably these were the firms that undercut City Link then couldn't cope. Such is the free market.

Of these 2727 people, how many were on short term contract and would finish at Christmas anyway?

If he had been straightforward would his permanent staff have co-operated in an orderly and humane wind-down? THe assumption was that, if the closure was announced before, everyone would have simply downed tools. THe trouble with these high flying capitalists is their contempt for their workers who they regard as simply numbers
 

Bletchleyite

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If he had been straightforward would his permanent staff have co-operated in an orderly and humane wind-down? THe assumption was that, if the closure was announced before, everyone would have simply downed tools.

The outcome of which might have been a messy collapse rather than a managed wind-down. Consider another scenario - closure was announced on 20th December, just before Christmas. Staff walk out. Far less money is collected and staff cannot be paid for December's work.

Far worse for everyone, no?

It would be best if companies didn't fail, but this seems an unusually controlled one. And it seems from what other couriers were saying there is no massive shortage of this kind of work, so most will probably find other similar jobs.

Neil
 

Wyvern

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A controlled failure. It seems he just turned out the lights and that was it - not even telling the employees - people of whom you seem to have a similar jaundiced view. With a modicum of competent management surely it could have been arranged in a much better and humane way.

THe negative PR from this is not likely to help either the Tories or UKIP next May.
 
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Busaholic

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It should be made clear that, other than the half million bung, none of this is/was Mr Moulton's own money. Experienced venture capitalists (of which he is certainly one) very rarely come out of anything without making a hefty profit one way or another. For £1 there will have been assets to be squeezed etc and who's to say it was ever his company's intention to 'save' Citylink? If you don't already know the story, google Comet and see how its owners systematically stripped the company of everything to make vast profits for themselves and then left the British taxpayer to fund redundancy payments!

Jon Moulton is not resident in the U.K. for tax purposes, apparently.
 

richw

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Hermes have tatty vans and are always a day or two late but they try hard and get there every time.

Hermes as far as I am aware don't have their own vehicles. All of the local couriers to me have to supply their own vehicle. My local delivery person for Hermes uses an R reg Astra Estate!

According to the Mirror around £40 million.

As Mick Cash of the RMT puts it "We're in a situation where at one stage in the last few weeks we've had a lot of media coverage going around saying people can't have delivery of parcels because there is not enough capacity . . ."

Presumably these were the firms that undercut City Link then couldn't cope. Such is the free market.

Of these 2727 people, how many were on short term contract and would finish at Christmas anyway?

If he had been straightforward would his permanent staff have co-operated in an orderly and humane wind-down? THe assumption was that, if the closure was announced before, everyone would have simply downed tools. THe trouble with these high flying capitalists is their contempt for their workers who they regard as simply numbers

Most are self employed couriers, so dependent on contract I would imagine had no obligation to turn up anyway.

A company that hasn't been mentioned in this thread is UK Mail who I've had deliver to me a few times lately- They have been great, when I've not been in their collection centre is just down the road anyway.
 

gazthomas

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It's a cut throat business, and in a free-market economy only the fittest will survive. I for one are disappointed Yodel haven't gone out of business as I echo other people's experiences with many damaged parcels. DPD in my view are a cut-above, their communication processes are excellent in my view.
 

Wyvern

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Royal Mail/ParcelForce leave a card if I dont happen to be in, with a phone number and website option to arrange a foc redelivery on a day when I will be in (min two days later)

THat's if they are not tracked.
 

anthony263

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City link were having issues back in 2012 when I was working for Parcelforce as a delivery driver so I cant say I am too surprised by this announcement.

That said I have always had a very great service from Citylink when I have used them especially compared to DHL
 

Bletchleyite

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It's a cut throat business, and in a free-market economy only the fittest will survive. I for one are disappointed Yodel haven't gone out of business as I echo other people's experiences with many damaged parcels. DPD in my view are a cut-above, their communication processes are excellent in my view.

I agree re DPD though you do pay for them being pretty good. But that said, you can be cheap without being crap. Aldi is probably the classic supermarket example of that, but in courier terms I've given Hermes a mention upthread because of the way they manage to be cheap (mainly seeming to employ part-time couriers who are earning a bit of top-up cash using their own car).

One key to getting good service from front-line staff is ensuring they enjoy their job, and money is not the only way. Most restaurants pay their waitstaff minimum wage or thereabouts, but you can always tell the ones where the staff enjoy their job and the ones where they don't by the quality and cheerfulness of the service.

(I have a friend who, while he's studying, is working for Starbucks serving coffee, and he says he really enjoys it despite the pay being relatively low, for instance).

Neil
 

jon0844

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How is it not a political issue when a guy, Jon Moulton, buys a company for a £1 and a year later puts it into administration on Christmas Day? This is where UKIP are so wrong-headed.

I know next to nothing about what happened with City Link, but wonder if there were any similarities to the various fiddles with the purchase of Phones 4u which also resulted in the firm going bust.

While there were various factors that made it go under, one of the bigger ones was all the debt loaded on the company and a lot of money taken out by the investors.

Could that have happened here too?
 

Wyvern

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This is the account from the Telegraph when he first acquired the business.

Turnaround specialist Jon Moulton aims to deliver the goods with City Link

Quoed without comment.

He reckons the courier could be showing a profit in a couple of months. "We can see a way forward," he says simply. "A lot has happened already - there are 12 substantial work streams on the way, several of which will be putting back their first quantitative returns tomorrow. It will be the first time they know what they've actually done."

Moulton has promised to invest £40m as part of the deal but he knows City Link doesn't do many miles to the gallon. "It has eaten an enormous amount of cash," he admits.

What's wrong with the company? "It's easier to list by exception – the name's pretty good," he jokes. "We don't know enough about exactly what's gone wrong but there have been multiple changes of management, systems, strategy, acquisitions, clearly a lot of those decisions were wrong. Having said that, we have bought a company that is improving actually quite rapidly. It might very well have been that, if Rentokil had hung on for a year, they may have seen black numbers start to emerge."

It's classic Moulton: he may know nothing about a sector or business but he sees "a way forward" and pounces. He said Better Capital looked at City Link for a "couple of weeks – it was longer than normal, most of our deals are done in 10 days," he says.
Better Capital has bought 16 companies so far, including Jaeger, the fashion chain, Everest, the glazing company, and Reader's Digest, the magazine group. He's not fussed that they are in tough industries. "By nature it's what we do," he says . . . .
 

Heinz57

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I'm very sorry to hear about City Link going down the pan. I can't imagine what sort of Christmas their staff are having - Not a very Merry one! Still, my thoughts are with them and I hope they all manage to find themselves new jobs soon.

I've never had a problem with City Link, I remember when Hattons used to use them as their alternative to Parcel Force. I always chose the CL option, delivery was fast and always on time.

I don't have a problem with Parcel Force either, we've had a lot of packages delivered to home by them and my workplace (a large nationwide retailer) also uses them for warehouse deliveries. Friendly drivers and the packages are in good condition on their arrival.

Not like Yodel, anything delivered by these guys always turns up late in a clapped out old van driven by some foreigner who can barley say 'I have a parcel to deliver', who would then throw the package at you before you've fully opened the door and then bugger off. the parcel has usually been squashed or damaged too.

DPD are in my opinion the best, package is always on time, delivered by friendly staff who actually take care of it to the moment you take the parcel off them. Drivers are always in smart uniforms in smart vans too. And despite the negative publicity they have, I believe the same can be said for UK Mail.
 

Qwerty133

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Yodel are useless, however I think my address may be on the 'annoying customer' list, as there parcels now turn up on time in vans, and not late, at 22:50, placed in the bin, or pushed through the letterbox despite being really heavy, in a old Ford Mondeo (now peugeot 406, which we used to get and still comes to the neighbors )
 

Islineclear3_1

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An absolute chunts trick to place the company into administration on Christmas Eve/Day and leave much of the staff to find out via the media.

I am sure the owners will walk away with little damage while the workers are left with the prospect of loosing everything. Yet most of you seemed more worried about your parcel rather than the people invovled. 3000 + people found out they almost certainly didnt have a job to go back to after Christmas on Christmas day.

Pip pip old bean. I'm all right Jack.

Well, I haven't looked into the details yet but had this company offered sterling service to its customers (i.e. the people who pay their wages), I would have sympathy for them.

And although I wouldn't wish anyone out of a job, can't say I'm surprised. I've had rotten service from this firm
 

Bletchleyite

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DPD are in my opinion the best, package is always on time, delivered by friendly staff who actually take care of it to the moment you take the parcel off them. Drivers are always in smart uniforms in smart vans too. And despite the negative publicity they have, I believe the same can be said for UK Mail.

I've never had any issues with UK Mail. The only ones that have caused me significant problems are Yodel and Parcelforce (the latter care of a new member of staff who didn't know what they were doing - though the efforts of the customer services person to track it down were well beyond what I expected). And DHL in its previous form prior to being part of Yodel, where my parcel should have gone to a third party agent[1] for collection, but the agent claimed no knowledge of it, though it was eventually found. (So Yodel was made up of HDNL (rubbish) and DHL UK (rubbish) - no surprise it turned out rubbish! :) )

[1] That's all they offered, no actual depot collection.

Neil
 

LWB

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I know next to nothing about what happened with City Link, but wonder if there were any similarities to the various fiddles with the purchase of Phones 4u which also resulted in the firm going bust.

While there were various factors that made it go under, one of the bigger ones was all the debt loaded on the company and a lot of money taken out by the investors.

Could that have happened here too?

And MG/ROVER
 

Busaholic

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And MG/ROVER

Jon Moulton and his company then, Alchemy, were the other bidders for that company:they didn't succeed, but would the outcome for the workers have been any different?
 

Heinz57

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So Yodel was made up of HDNL (rubbish) and DHL UK (rubbish) - no surprise it turned out rubbish! :)

I've never liked DHL. At all. Their couriers are useless and DHL Supply Chain (their logistics arm) are also completely useless.

Another company not yet mentioned in this discussion is UPS. Now again, despite their negative publicity, I am yet to have a problem with 'Oops'. We have had a hand full of parcels delivered to our house by these guys and the deliveries have always been on time and arrived in good condition. The drivers were also quite friendly.
 

starrymarkb

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Friend of mine had a few hundred quid of custom made head dresses smashed by United Parcel Smashers.

Waiting for the email from DPD giving me the link to track the van with my Illamasqua order around Exeter :)
 

DarloRich

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Well, I haven't looked into the details yet but had this company offered sterling service to its customers (i.e. the people who pay their wages), I would have sympathy for them.

And although I wouldn't wish anyone out of a job, can't say I'm surprised. I've had rotten service from this firm

You havent looked into the details? Why not come back when you have dug a bit deeper eh?
 
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