NY Subway - Express v Local

[The Snap]

Morning all,

A quick question. Is it blatantly obvious when waiting for a train on the NY Subway whether a train is Local or Express? Is this made clear on the arrival boards and front of the train?

Thanks.

 

[Bletchleyite]

ISTR it is fairly obvious. It's a good system that means journeys are nice and quick.

Usually one track is for express and one for local, with an island platform for interchange, and well-signed as such.

Neil

 

[AM9]

Morning all,

A quick question. Is it blatantly obvious when waiting for a train on the NY Subway whether a train is Local or Express? Is this made clear on the arrival boards and front of the train?

Thanks.

Normally, there are sections where express trains oerate under different line numbers, e.g. the East Side route is served by the 4,5,&6. lines. From 125th St., (a major station) they all stop at 125th, 86th, 59th, Grand Central, Union Square etc. The line 6 alone stops at all the stations (i.e. including another 10 minor stops) over that section. There are fast and slow tracks with most of the main stations having island platforms for fast/slow interchange. The fast tracks usually pass completely below the minor stations, (you can hear them), or as a fast pair between the two outer slows, (they are visible between the street supporting steelwork, and very loud). Imagine the Met/Jubilee section between Baker Street and Wembly Park, but all sub-surface. The trains aren't so different but they do all have unique line numbers of letters.
One other thing to remember is that some lines are the express line in one part of the city and the slow line elsewhere (e.g. the E line is slow on Manhattan and fast in Queens), some lines also operate fast services in the peak hours.
When there for the first time, it's a bit daunting particularly as it looks a lot more industrial and is very noisy, but it's very quick to get used to. The biggest problem is that transfer (interchange) stations are nowhere as good as on the London Underground. In many cases, you cannot even get to the same line's platform in the opposiote direction without returning to the street.

 

[The Snap]

Normally, there are sections where express trains oerate under different line numbers, e.g. the East Side route is served by the 4,5,&6. lines. From 125th St., (a major station) they all stop at 125th, 86th, 59th, Grand Central, Union Square etc. The line 6 alone stops at all the stations (i.e. including another 10 minor stops) over that section. There are fast and slow tracks with most of the main stations having island platforms for fast/slow interchange. The fast tracks usually pass completely below the minor stations, (you can hear them), or as a fast pair between the two outer slows, (they are visible between the street supporting steelwork, and very loud). Imagine the Met/Jubilee section between Baker Street and Wembly Park, but all sub-surface. The trains aren't so different but they do all have unique line numbers of letters.
One other thing to remember is that some lines are the express line in one part of the city and the slow line elsewhere (e.g. the E line is slow on Manhattan and fast in Queens), some lines also operate fast services in the peak hours.
When there for the first time, it's a bit daunting particularly as it looks a lot more industrial and is very noisy, but it's very quick to get used to. The biggest problem is that transfer (interchange) stations are nowhere as good as on the London Underground. In many cases, you cannot even get to the same line's platform in the opposiote direction without returning to the street.

Thanks for that.

I've been once before but was a bit younger so didn’t really take much of it in. I remember it being pretty industrial, dirty and noisy as you say though! I also recall it not being very easy to navigate inside the stations, unlike LU.

I’m sure we'll work it out, thanks for your help.

 

[Searle]

I'm pretty sure that one line is always fast/slow ie. A/E is always slow and C is always fast (or some other order, I can't remember). At major stations, they're usually on different platforms, with Express on the left and Slow on the right. If you can remember which ones are fast and which are slow, and with a bit of common sense, it's easy

 

[button_boxer]

I'm pretty sure that one line is always fast/slow ie. A/E is always slow and C is always fast (or some other order, I can't remember).

It's not quite that rigid - the A line for example is express through much of Manhattan during the day, but runs all-stops on the local track at night.

 

[ASharpe]

My biggest problem with the subway was finding the stations from surface level. The entrances can be rather discrete compared to in London or BART in California.

With the subway I found it easier to just consider all of the lines to be separate - even if they do run on the same track or have the same colour on the map.

 

[Searle]

It's not quite that rigid - the A line for example is express through much of Manhattan during the day, but runs all-stops on the local track at night.

I suppose you're right, thinking about it. I'd take my post as a generality then

Similar to asharpe's post, I found it confusing that not every entrance to a Subway station leads to every line; make sure you take note of what lines it says on the entrance, because those are the only lines it leads to, and each entrance could be different!

 

[AM9]

Still it's a great system to explore. The letter lines are 10ft wide and (mostly) 75ft long cars. The number lines are narrower than the SSLs of the London Underground.
In the Bronx and Brooklyn/Queens, there are interesting journeys on lines ove 30 ft above street level, and some lines go over Manhattan Bridge.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

New Yorkers will invariably transfer to an adjacent Express train if one pulls up alongside - butt he journey time saving is often quite low as the "fast" trains often get checked in the peaks.

The glorious exception is the mighty "A" train which goes express from 59th St to 125th under Central Park West - and barrels along at a good 60 mph (which feels like 100 mph !)

 

[AM9]

New Yorkers will invariably transfer to an adjacent Express train if one pulls up alongside - butt he journey time saving is often quite low as the "fast" trains often get checked in the peaks.

A bit like Wembly Park and Finchley Road then?

 

[Springs Branch]

In my experience as a past regular visitor to NYC, as long as you are aware that express & local trains operate on the Subway, and make a conscious effort to look out for which is which, you will be OK.

Two things to watch out for:-
1) As mentioned in post #6, some express trains become local at night ("night" meaning midnight to around 5 or 6am). But all stations get service in some form 24 hrs.

2) There is sometimes major engineering work on the Subway overnight or at weekends, which can mean normal express/local patterns being altered. E.g. the Q-train is normally express from 34th St to Canal St (with one stop at Union Sq), but during engineering work might temporarily become a local all day Saturday & Sunday (this is one random example).
You need to watch out for any changes like this at the time of travel, either online or info at stations. Verbal announcements sometimes assume a good knowledge of the system to understand what is happening, or can be difficult to hear clearly.

I'm not sure how much major re-construction is still underway on the NY Subway, but when I last used it a few years ago, there was lots and quite a bit of disruption.

It's great fun though - I spent many free hours in NYC riding around on the Subway, just people-watching and checking out the operations & infrastructure which is interesting and varied.

 

[AM9]

It's great fun though - I spent many free hours in NYC riding around on the Subway, just people-watching and checking out the operations & infrastructure which is interesting and varied.

When there last year, I dropped into the 2nd Ave. Subway visitor centre, (on 2nd Ave. surprisingly).
It was interesting to hear from the rep. there about the problems of building the new subway in rock. He was also interested to compare note about Crossrail construction.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

It is a great system - and I reccomend the Queens elevated J / Z /M lines(partly skip stop- but not express !) for a good view of the regenerating suburbs.

They don't use the nomenclature so much these days of "Bronx Thru Express" , or Brighton Beach local ......more is the pity. Always worth asking a terminating 6 local southbound at City Hall if you can ride around the loop and see the disused City Hall station. One conductor let me .....

 

[Taunton]

There's a Subway Shop with enthusiast books etc inside Grand Central station. It's a bit hidden away but signs will get you there. The Subway Museum is in Brooklyn in an abandoned station and well worth going to, they have one each of a whole range of different cars over time. Because it's still connected to the system they get them out occasionally for railtours.

For express/local, get one of the subway maps which describes the quite complex arrangements. On the four track sections through Midtown Manhattan the express are in the centre. Contrary to what I often see written elsewhere, the bulk of the subway is not four track, but tourists in Manhattan tend not to get too far out. On the elevated sections, which are worth seeking out, a number are three track, the fast track in the middle is used in the am peak towards Downtown and in the pm peak away from there. If you get the chance, ride out to Coney Island on the D train, which is elevated, and at the end passes through the huge depot and workshops which makes the London Underground one at Neasden look like a sub-shed. To the east of Coney Island station there are even double-deck elevated lines, on a huge structure.

Signage is somewhat inconsistent, and when they change their style they seem to leave half the old signs up anyway. Real New Yorkers still know the Subway as three divisions, the IRT (numbered lines, with smaller cars), IND (lettered lines, first half of the alphabet) and BMT (second half of the alphabet), and there are still many signs to this effect.

There are no countdown signs on platforms, but if you can take either local or express, look down the tunnel to see what's approaching. A number of the lines run at surprisingly wide frequencies outside the peaks if you are used to London, say every 10 minutes, or even less, although again unlike London the huge 10-car trains never seem to leave anyone behind, once they turn up.

 

[smashing68]

Express have the route letter/number in a diamond and locals in a circle so is obvious from from of train and in car displays. The conductor also announces the next stop just before departure though if you get it wrong you might not have enough time to jump off.

My main impression was that it was all a bit underdesigned - the elevated sections are a girder monstosity and far removed from the more elegant elevated sections in Paris or Berlin or even London's brick arches. The subsurface stations seem to let in a lot of rain! But it is a vast,comprehensive and pretty impressive network. How many decades late is the Second Ave. subway now?

 

[Panda]

Mmm...even being aware of it and being warned of it, I have managed to get it wrong as it wasn't 100% obvious and an express train can also be a local train (the A train is like that)!

Some lines run express through Manhattan and as a local through the suburbs. I just read the sign saying local, not realising that it was a local only in Harlem, but express in Manhattan (I missed that bit altogether). So I saw local, jumped on and expected it to stop and the next station (went from Columbus Circle, meaning to get off at 72 St, but instead went 8 stops on to 125 St and had to backtrack all that way!!).

Rather than relying on local and express, look at each stop and explicitly look at the train number/letter which stops there. If I just looked at where I wanted to go to, I would have known the train which stops where I wanted to go and the stop where I was at and not taken the incorrect type of local train.

There was no conductor or anyone announcing anything!

Only made that mistake once though!!

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Most trains have good conductor announcements - in fact I even persuaded one c/er to let me do it after chatting to him "step inside and watch the closing doors" is the bit I like . You do have to be careful with the Expresses - I once was asked by a tourist if this train stopped at Spring Street - which I assured him it did - only for us to tear through it - we were on the 4 Express !!! (not the 6 local) !

 

[tranzitjim]

I remember watching a Youtube video, a cab view of a New York subway train.

I think it was #7, Flashing line.

It clearly shows it using a third or middle track. You went past many stations on the two outer tracks, and now and then a station would have two islands in the middle. The middle track had platforms on both sides. This is where the express trains would stop.

 

[AM9]

I remember watching a Youtube video, a cab view of a New York subway train.

I think it was #7, Flashing line.

It clearly shows it using a third or middle track. You went past many stations on the two outer tracks, and now and then a station would have two islands in the middle. The middle track had platforms on both sides. This is where the express trains would stop.

ITYM the Flushing line, although flashers can pop up anywhere!

Another help to avoid getting on the wrong train is that most of the cars have illuminated line maps showing where you currently are and which stations will be stopped at.

 

[jopsuk]

Express tracks up the middle is hardly an uncommon arrangement- it takes a special system like London's Metropolitan line to put the express tracks up the outside!

 

[AM9]

Express tracks up the middle is hardly an uncommon arrangement- it takes a special system like London's Metropolitan line to put the express tracks up the outside!

I can't see what's wrong with that. If the fast lines were in the middle, it would still be necessary to have stairs up or down from platforms as the Chiltern lines run along the west side. The current arrangement means that a single island platform and stair access together with a narrow street entrance takes up less frontage on the bridges.

 

[Taunton]

Express tracks up the middle is hardly an uncommon arrangement

The unusual feature being described is a single express track up the middle, used towards the city in the morning peak and away from it in the evening. I don't believe there are any like this in Britain. It developed mainly on the elevated sections, which run right over main streets, to give express service when most needed but where a 4-track arrangement just wouldn't fit between the buildings.

Manhattan in New York City is an unusual geographical shape, very long and narrow, and much of the demand for transport is north-south. Stopping at every station would be a very tedious commute, like having to do Upminster to Richmond on the District Line, hence all the emphasis on express services.

 

[AM9]

The unusual feature being described is a single express track up the middle, used towards the city in the morning peak and away from it in the evening. I don't believe there are any like this in Britain. It developed mainly on the elevated sections, which run right over main streets, to give express service when most needed but where a 4-track arrangement just wouldn't fit between the buildings.Richmond on the District Line, hence all the emphasis on express services.

Something similar to what is being considered for the SWML as far as Surbiton.

Manhattan in New York City is an unusual geographical shape, very long and narrow, and much of the demand for transport is north-south. Stopping at every station would be a very tedious commute, like having to do Upminster to Richmond on the District Line, hence all the emphasis on express services.

There are express lines in the other Boroughs, e.g the E line is fast most of its way across Queens but it becomes the slow service on its way south down 8th and 6th Avenues in Manhattan. The A train shares the line between 50th st and Canal St but runs fast past the mionor stations. This is because it serves Jamaica & Sulphin Blvd. so it provides a commuter feed for the LIRR and also distributes JFK Airtrak passengers in Manhattan.

 

[MP]

Express have the route letter/number in a diamond and locals in a circle so is obvious from from of train and in car displays.

Be careful with this one as it only applies to peak direction 6 and 7 lines. The diamond used to refer to rush hour services (not always express) and was used on more lines than today.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It is a great system - and I reccomend the Queens elevated J / Z /M lines(partly skip stop- but not express !) for a good view of the regenerating suburbs.

Great line that was just a part of a much larger "el" network throughout Brooklyn giving you a hint of what it was like during the first half of the 20th century. The M in Queens is particularly unusual as it doesn't run above a street. Very Chicago-like.

As a New Yorker I can't say I've ever heard of Bushwick being referred to as a "suburb"...not since the 19th century anyway.

Just a little local info, the suburbs begin beyond the city limits. No one living within the five boroughs considers themselves living in the suburbs. It's all New York City.

 

[142094]

There are no countdown signs on platforms, but if you can take either local or express, look down the tunnel to see what's approaching. A number of the lines run at surprisingly wide frequencies outside the peaks if you are used to London, say every 10 minutes, or even less, although again unlike London the huge 10-car trains never seem to leave anyone behind, once they turn up.

Some of the stations served by the 1/2/3 trains do have platform indicators, and other stations have automatic announcements which normally indicate a train is one station away then approaching the station on the local or express track.

One thing to be careful about is that some of the engineering work takes place in between the rush hours (e.g. recently there has been work towards Coney Island which meant having to change trains at a smaller station to go back towards Manhattan). The 7 line is also having a lot of work done to it at weekends, and was terminating short at Queensboro Plaza instead of going to Grand Central.

 

[higthomas]

Wow. I have just had a look trough some of the timetables and the track maps for the NY subway and it is absolutely mental.
Some of those timetables; incredible, there are about 10 different stopping patterns on some lines, and this is a metro!

 

[Hophead]

Chicago has some tidal-flow 3rd track as well.

 

[me123]

I've always found the NY Subway to be extremely easy to use, I don't think you'll have a problem. In fact, I found it easier than the London Underground? And the 7 day metrocard (IIRC $30 for unlimited travel) is a bargain if you're in the city long enough. It is a fantastic system, and whilst it may appear a little "unpolished" to say the least, it does the job brilliantly.

It is more complicated in its operations, than other metros, though, and the map doesn't do the system any favours. Clicky. Not very aesthetically pleasing. Harry Beck would be turning in his grave. However, there is the unofficial Kick Map, which looks much clearer (it's payware, but you can get an idea on the site).

In general, most lines with have express and local tracks, which makes it much easier to work out which trains are which. Platforms usually have boards above them, telling you which trains stop and whether they're local or express. Here's an example for the A train (which, as has been remarked before, runs differently out of hours).

It should be fairly obvious which trains are local and which are express.

Weekends can be a bit weirder, and the trains can do bizarre things: there are posters up in these cases. If in doubt, ask the staff (or a New Yorker). They're usually happy to help - not as unapproachable as they look!

 

[AndrewP]

If in doubt, ask the staff (or a New Yorker). They're usually happy to help - not as unapproachable as they look!

I really agree with this - New Yorkers generally in my experience are friendly and helpful - look at a map in a subway car and someone will offer you help.

I love the subway and found the trains clean but basic but the stations poorly signed and less clean with interchanges being a nightmare (Canal St was very confusing).

The J train is a great way to get downtown from JFK too - no need for a cab.