How is Stansted Airport viewed in terms of rail access from its catchment area?

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Stansted Airport being another airport with a custom-built railway station and one that that has not dissimilar annual airline passenger numbers to Manchester Airport, how is that railway station viewed in terms of rail access from its recognised large catchment area?

 

[Class 170101]

With Stansted Airport being another airport with a custom-built railway station and one that that has not dissimilar annual airline passenger numbers to Manchester Airport, how is that railway station viewed in terms of rail access from its recognised large catchment area?

Not great from the east its into London and out again for most of Eastern Essex / Eastern Suffolk orPublic Transport connections to Chelmsford / Colchester / Ipswich by Road transport. Norfolk isn't too bad change of train at either Ely or Cambridge. No early / late trains beyond Ely for stations to west Cambridgeshire.

Main focus really is London.

 

[306024]

Anglia Railways back in the day introduced an hourly mini bus between Colchester and Stansted Airport, timed to take just 50 minutes (therefore needing just two buses) it had to be driven like a maniac to keep time. If the A120 was congested for any reason it was game over.

First Group took over with a half decent hourly coach service, then cut it back to two hourly, which killed it, and last time I looked a slow bus via Braintree is all that's left.

However the First Group coach service from Southend to Stansted Airport Airport via Chelmsford seems much more popular, and has some decent modern coaches allocated to it. In fact as I'm flying from Stansted Thursday I might try that out.

 

[jopsuk]

Could be better from Cambridge. I'm still confused as to why the recently introduced GA service (off peak weekdays only...) isn't "all stops"

 

[atillathehunn]

Perhaps living until very recently in the Netherlands has spoiled me a little, but I can't help think most British airports (except really Manchester and perhaps Stansted) are a little constrained in their transport links. Schiphol, Frankfurt, Cologne, Brussels Zaventum, for example, are integrated into the transport network of the country, which trains passing through to a wide range of destinations. The result? I would never think of driving to an airport. I flew to China a few weeks back out Frankfurt. My plane ticket was also my train ticket (Emirates), and when I fly to Iceland in the summer also out of (forgotten airport for the minute) my plane ticket is my train ticket, which trains straight to the airport.

Manchester stands out, having Crewe, central Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds, York, Glasgow, and Edinburgh on its route map.

Stansted as well, has not just a train to London but also trains across to Cambridge, Leicester and Birmingham.

I've only ever transited through Gatwick, so I don't know all that much about it.

Heathrow is totally isolated! Just a horrifically expensive (most expensive?) airport line to Paddington or the very slow trundle on the tube.

So what does this tell us? Perhaps that Stansted is cognizant of its position as a low cost Ryanair base for much of the midlands (Birmingham airport is OK, East Midlands is useless) as well as London? The flight to Maastricht used to go from Stansted and ran for a few years. It was never overwhelming, but it kept going. Then it transferred to Flymaybe and went to Southend. It was dead within 3 months. Nobody could recognise Southend, and explaining to confused Dutchies at the airport that £78 return (for several people) to London was indeed justified as were still somewhere near the Netherlands...


And that Manchester really has an amazing geographical spread? Or is it just a useful place to turn back trains so they don't clog up central Manchester? Or perhaps because you can fly to America, Africa, Asia, and Near and Far East Asia without changing? The new MAN - HKG route is great!

 

[CockneySparrow]

Not great from the east its into London and out again for most of Eastern Essex / Eastern Suffolk orPublic Transport connections to Chelmsford / Colchester / Ipswich by Road transport. Norfolk isn't too bad change of train at either Ely or Cambridge. No early / late trains beyond Ely for stations to west Cambridgeshire.

Main focus really is London.

Stephen Barclay the local MP for North West Cambridgeshire (Wisbech/March) is pushing for a late night service towards Peterborough from the airport

 

[ac6000cw]

Could be better from Cambridge. I'm still confused as to why the recently introduced GA service (off peak weekdays only...) isn't "all stops"

Me too - I might be a little cynical, but I wonder if the GA service is as much about ORCATS raiding as anything else, given that it's obviously designed to use 'marginal time' resources.

If you really wanted to try an improve links to Stansted, then extending some of the Norwich-Cambridge and Ipswich-Cambridge trains to Stansted would be more useful - passengers with luggage don't like changing trains. I know there are problems with diesel trains at the airport station, but they can be sorted if the will is there.

 

[306024]

Could be better from Cambridge. I'm still confused as to why the recently introduced GA service (off peak weekdays only...) isn't "all stops"

Have you tried timetabling an all stations service, and get it to fit through the single track
Stansted tunnel, and between Shepreth Branch Jn and Cambridge, and to platform at both Stansted and Cambridge, all within the marginal resources used. The answer may be in there somewhere.

Me too - I might be a little cynical, but I wonder if the GA service is as much about ORCATS raiding as anything else, given that it's obviously designed to use 'marginal time' resources.

If you really wanted to try an improve links to Stansted, then extending some of the Norwich-Cambridge and Ipswich-Cambridge trains to Stansted would be more useful - passengers with luggage don't like changing trains. I know there are problems with diesel trains at the airport station, but they can be sorted if the will is there.

Not cynical at all. Of course there are no DMUs available for any extentions south of Cambridge.

 

[A0]

Anglia Railways back in the day introduced an hourly mini bus between Colchester and Stansted Airport, timed to take just 50 minutes (therefore needing just two buses) it had to be driven like a maniac to keep time. If the A120 was congested for any reason it was game over.

If that was on the 'old' A120 then that would have been a fairly ambitious timing - the old road used to be a nightmare when it was single carriageway pretty much the whole route apart from a little dualling around Dunmow and Braintree. I used that road alot in 1993/4 and absolutely hated it.

Last time I used it though about 3 years back - it had largely been upgraded and it was only the final section to the A12 which had not been improved.

 

[racyrich]

I've actually just refused a long weekend away at my friend's apartment in Murcia because the flight back lands at Stansted at 23.35. Even though I live only 30 miles away in Basildon there is no way home using public transport by the time you've taken an hour clearing customs.

 

[dk1]

If you really wanted to try an improve links to Stansted, then extending some of the Norwich-Cambridge and Ipswich-Cambridge trains to Stansted would be more useful - passengers with luggage don't like changing trains. I know there are problems with diesel trains at the airport station, but they can be sorted if the will is there.

There are ways around the diesel issue at the Airport but that doesn't help when there are literally no diesel units to extend at least the most obvious route which is Norwich. AGA & NXEA before them have had plans but fall at the final hurdle thanks to this issue. It's not helped by growing patronage on routes such as Ipswich-Cambridge. Only current hope that i can see is if we can have just a few of the upcoming Scotrail 170 cascade but im not holding my breath.

 

[Class 170101]

last time I looked a slow bus via Braintree is all that's left.

Still there Route 133 I believe its run by Arriva these days.

 

[ac6000cw]

There are ways around the diesel issue at the Airport but that doesn't help when there are literally no diesel units to extend at least the most obvious route which is Norwich. AGA & NXEA before them have had plans but fall at the final hurdle thanks to this issue. It's not helped by growing patronage on routes such as Ipswich-Cambridge. Only current hope that i can see is if we can have just a few of the upcoming Scotrail 170 cascade but im not holding my breath.

Thanks - I'd temporarily forgotten about the DMU availability problem, and I agree the route from Norwich is the important one (especially now that the A11 dual-carriageway is complete, so it's modern roads all the way from Norwich to Stansted).

I suppose there's always the 'short' set....

 

[dk1]

Thanks - I'd temporarily forgotten about the DMU availability problem, and I agree the route from Norwich is the important one (especially now that the A11 dual-carriageway is complete, so it's modern roads all the way from Norwich to Stansted).

I suppose there's always the 'short' set....

Probs best not go there again with the infrastructure issues that have been raised SO many times haha.

 

[ac6000cw]

Probs best not go there again with the infrastructure issues that have been raised SO many times haha.

I can imagine...

 

[Bald Rick]

I've actually just refused a long weekend away at my friend's apartment in Murcia because the flight back lands at Stansted at 23.35. Even though I live only 30 miles away in Basildon there is no way home using public transport by the time you've taken an hour clearing customs.

You could fly back with easyjet to Gatwick, which arrives at a much more respectable 1835...

 

[dk1]

Stephen Barclay the local MP for North West Cambridgeshire (Wisbech/March) is pushing for a late night service towards Peterborough from the airport

Cross Country tried to introduce a 21:25 Stansted-Birmingham, overnight services as far as Peterborough & extend the hourly Leicester terminators through through to a Cambridge. All where refused on pathing/engineering grounds.

 

[DeeGee]

I'm doing a flight out of Stansted in the Autumn. It's 150 miles from my house (therefore less than 3 hrs drive). 25 miles further by road than Manchester Airport.

Flight is at 12:10, 10am to the airport would be ideal, therefore.

So that's either a 5:12 departure from Grimsby with 2 changes, or 1-way car hire for 30 quid + petrol, leaving at 7am.

What would you do? That's money the railway ain't getting!

 

[306024]

I'm doing a flight out of Stansted in the Autumn. It's 150 miles from my house (therefore less than 3 hrs drive). 25 miles further by road than Manchester Airport.

Flight is at 12:10, 10am to the airport would be ideal, therefore. So that's either a 5:12 departure from Grimsby with 2 changes, or 1-way car hire for 30 quid + petrol, leaving at 7am.

What would you do?.........

I wouldn't start from Grimsby in the first place

 

[DeeGee]

I wouldn't start from Grimsby in the first place

But changing my departure station to somewhere good would be even more expensive and require an even earlier start. Not least the hire of a van!

 

[Pugwash]

A rail link from Braintree would tremendously help connectivity from the east tremendously. I believe the route is fairly clear and the route is now a cycle path most of the way along.

 

[TAS]

Still there Route 133 I believe its run by Arriva these days.

And now in competition with National Express service 250 (Ipswich-Colchester-Marks Tey-Braintree-Stansted-Heathrow), although this doesn't serve North Station (or the University of Essex), but has the distinct advantage of not being a local bus service west of Braintree (or, indeed, anywhere along the route), unlike the 133.

 

[Iskra]

I've actually just refused a long weekend away at my friend's apartment in Murcia because the flight back lands at Stansted at 23.35. Even though I live only 30 miles away in Basildon there is no way home using public transport by the time you've taken an hour clearing customs.

I've used Stansted a lot, and only once has it taken me more than 15mins to get out of the airport from getting off the plane. (That said I usually travel hand luggage only, which makes things easier.)

 

[Dan27]

The biggest benefit for the local area with the SE is for commuters who live in Bishops Stortford and Harlow Town. SE's often stop at one of these stations after Tottenham Hale before the Airport so it cuts down on journey time considerably even vs fast Cambridge services.

I think an easy win would be to utilise the connection from Tottenham Hale to Stratford (certainly compared to other options)

 

[306024]

And now in competition with National Express service 250 (Ipswich-Colchester-Marks Tey-Braintree-Stansted-Heathrow), although this doesn't serve North Station (or the University of Essex), but has the distinct advantage of not being a local bus service west of Braintree (or, indeed, anywhere along the route), unlike the 133.

Trouble is the 250 is generally every two hours. OK for going to the airport as you can plan accordingly, but on the return all you want to do is get home, not so good if you just miss one.

But changing my departure station to somewhere good would be even more expensive and require an even earlier start. Not least the hire of a van!

'Twas but a joke, hence the Although you have to admit starting a journey by train to anywhere from Grimsby isn't easy.

A rail link from Braintree would tremendously help connectivity from the east tremendously. I believe the route is fairly clear and the route is now a cycle path most of the way along.

Yes, makes for a good bike ride when the weather is fine. However when the bean counters have looked before they say it doesn't stack up.

 

[TAS]

A rail link from Braintree would tremendously help connectivity from the east tremendously. I believe the route is fairly clear and the route is now a cycle path most of the way along.

A popular cycling and walking route, closing it would almost certainly be unpopular with a lot of people, whatever the regional benefits might be.

In terms of obstructions, there's some minor development at Little Dunmow which could probably be demolished and then the route through Dunmow itself has been completely obliterated by post-closure bypass roads, so would require some new build. You'd also need to bridge the A120 where it severs the trackbed.

West of Stansted the route through Bishops Stortford is irretrievably lost.

I must confess to being slightly dubious as to whether the cost would be justified - I can't help but think that the route would seem rather indirect, compared to the road options.

 

[Pugwash]

Trouble is the 250 is generally every two hours. OK for going to the airport as you can plan accordingly, but on the return all you want to do is get home, not so good if you just miss one.



'Twas but a joke, hence the Although you have to admit starting a journey by train to anywhere from Grimsby isn't easy.



Yes, makes for a good bike ride when the weather is fine. However when the bean counters have looked before they say it doesn't stack up.

It would seem worth another look - Braintree is growing rapidly and would provide excellent onward connections and also a diversionary route to Stansted airport from London.

 

[Clip]

It would seem worth another look - Braintree is growing rapidly and would provide excellent onward connections and also a diversionary route to Stansted airport from London.

Very much agree with this. Im pretty sure MAG who own it would be willing to put a few quid towards it too.

 

[DeeGee]

'Twas but a joke, hence the Although you have to admit starting a journey by train to anywhere from Grimsby isn't easy.

I should have winked back really.

Grimsby is perfectly placed if you need to get a train to Barton Upon Humber and have a cheap pint before. Also ideal for trains to Cleethorpes.

 

[jopsuk]

Crayons time:
Link from Wickford up to Chelmsford. Connect Braintree to Stansted as a through station. Add a chord north of Broxbourne to allow trains to run towards hertford, then link the branch so that trains can run on to the loop towards Stevnage. From Stevnage build a new line across and under Luton Airport. Run down the MML to St Albans, then branch onto the Abbey Line to Watford to join the DC to Wembley then a new line to Ealing. Through Heathrow, then onwards to Gatwick!