Why do some people queue rather than use a TVM?

[D6975]

Generally I buy most of my 'normal' journey tickets on the internet, most of them advances. I pick them up (weeks before the travel date) from the machines in the car park at Temple Meads, which are rarely busy even at peak times.

Day returns when away on hols, day return Paignton - Dawlish for example when I don't know in advance what day we'll be travelling I buy from the ticket office.

Rovers and day rangers, you don't have any choice as a rule, most of them can't be got from a machine. Travelcards and PTE day rovers usually can, so I do buy those from a machine.

 

[Aldaniti]

I did that for the first time in ages today. By the time I had entered my PIN into the machine she gave me, signed the payment slip and told her what denominations I want I could see why the bank are replacing counter staff with machines...

I love fivers. I'll get the odd couple out of an ATM, but by going into a branch I can have as many as I like. And service from a friendly smiling cashier who won't try and flog me something. Luckily my bank is like that. And by using the cashier I eliminate the possibility of being scammed outside.

 

[Robertj21a]

You are misrepresenting me. I never suggested that.

My innuendo was that modernly British people are, on the whole, ruder and more selfish as a consequence of her policies. More specifically by destroying industry in order to take power from the unions and to convert Britain into an international centre for money laundering and loan sharking. Financial services is how Britain earning its living nowadays and it is inevitable that that Ponzi scheme will one day burst. And Britain will return to its industrial and maritime roots.

Fact remains that railway money is better spent on booking clerks than on robots. And many people queue for the booking office because they realise that.

What do you mean by 'railway money' ?

 

[SPADTrap]

If a TOC introduced a TVM for its staff to use when selling to the public there would be training on how to use it. But when the things are introduced for the public to use there's no training and we're expected to work it all out for ourselves

Can you imagine getting a letter from a TOC to attend a national TVM training day?

 

[jon0844]

I assume LU staff could, even before the changes, help customers use its machines. Not sure many people at railway stations could.

 

[sbt]

I assume LU staff could, even before the changes, help customers use its machines. Not sure many people at railway stations could.

There are some at Waterloo at least - they are specifically mentioned on signs on the TVM. The problem is they they also Help Themselves - to your money, bags or other belongings. The signs are there to warn you of that.

I have actually encountered one, who tried to be 'helpful', whilst adding misdirection and confusion, when I was perfectly happy with what I was doing. I stopped what I was doing and walked away for a bit.

 

[tsr]

Southern have an internal electronic staff training course for all staff involved in revenue/retail duties in order to help them assist others with TVMs. It's actually quite useful and trainees do come to realise that whilst it takes place, even if it's seen as a bit of a joke at first (some people think it will just state the obvious). It only takes about half an hour or so to log in, set it up, do the training and print out the record sheet.

There are also public demo videos, basically providing a simplified range of the electronic course materials, at: http://www.southernrailway.com/sout...ine-video-series-as-staff-idea-comes-to-life/

 

[jon0844]

It's good to see videos but if the interface was influenced more by app design, you'd likely not need any guides at all.

I also think a wizard mode for irregular users would be good, along with an 'expert' mode.

 

[island]

It's good to see videos but if the interface was influenced more by app design, you'd likely not need any guides at all.

I also think a wizard mode for irregular users would be good, along with an 'expert' mode.

TOCs have of course no incentive to implement either. Both would cost money to develop. The first-mentioned mode would reduce revenue taken from people who are terrified of getting "fined" and buy the most expensive ticket to avoid fuss. The second would presumably make splitting etc. easier.

 

[sbt]

<Thinks> Open the interface to the 'select your ticket' part so people could use their Smartphone (if they have one - and most people do). For security keep the 'Pay for selected ticket closed'. Keep a 'fallback' interface as well.

Using current tech the most secure and simple approach would be to read a QR code optically. Have an open API so anybody could write an app to generate the QR. Also allow a standard form of QR for claiming pre-paid tickets - you could even allow them to be printed on to paper at home.

Competition (or co-operation) between developers leads to optimised interface on the phone. If you regularly buy the same ticket you can just save the QR. Most users set things up ahead of reaching the machine so its a case of Present phone with QR - Check displayed selection - Pay - Collect, speeding things up.

Never happen of course.

The alternative is to open up the current API and allow independent developers to compete to provide improved interfaces. Trial new interfaces on a select few machines at larger stations and test user behaviour. Award time-limited contract to the winner (or winners).

 

[jamesr]

If you making a journey by train you should know where you want to go/when if you are returning. We have to accept in the UK there are different restrictions for different tickets, that's life because of the way things are structured. It doesn't take 5 minutes on BRFares.com to find what ticket you need to buy on the day for a simple journey.

Yeah, I said it is machine or nothing on the BTS, MRT or Airport Rail Link. I also said there are no machines for train tickets because there aren't. There was nothing confusing about what I said. But here it is again anyway. Perhaps for trains, I could have said on the State Railway of Thailand there are no ticket machines and made it clearer.

"Here in Bangkok on the MRT/ARL/BTS, its either machines or nothing! Its not that often I use them but its in Thai or English, you pick your station/fare, insert cash and you get your token or 'ticket'. Easy. On trains here, there are no machines and only single tickets, no peak fares, its as simple as you get. Go to the ticket office, say the station and class of travel if relevant, hand over money and done, seconds. I mainly use buses though here and never see anyone but Thais on them!"

I do mainly use buses, so what? I'm just explaining how it is here, if you want to use the BTS, ARL or MRT in Bangkok you have to use a machine. I live nowhere near any of those three modes of travel, but do sometimes have to use them. If you want to buy a ticket for a real train, you deal with a real human, there are no machines as your ticket is only valid on one train.

Your points argue with each other. As a regular traveller to Bangkok amongst a lot of each other Asian cities, I rely on the fact I can turn up, and the systems in Asia make it easy for me to travel from the airport to the nearby capital city. And then I arrive at Gatwick, and even as someone with an interest in British railways, and a better than average understanding of the network, I still look at the ridiculous array of ticketing options, and don't have the first idea whether I've got a ticket for the price I should have paid or been ripped off. I don't have the first idea how a non-English speaker negotiates the purchase of a ticket from Gatwick to London, I'm sure most get thoroughly ripped off, and that's pretty shameful as a welcome to our nation. One shouldn't need to carry out a research project before catching public transport! It should be obvious at the point of sale.

 

[The Ham]

<Thinks> Open the interface to the 'select your ticket' part so people could use their Smartphone (if they have one - and most people do). For security keep the 'Pay for selected ticket closed'. Keep a 'fallback' interface as well.

Using current tech the most secure and simple approach would be to read a QR code optically. Have an open API so anybody could write an app to generate the QR. Also allow a standard form of QR for claiming pre-paid tickets - you could even allow them to be printed on to paper at home.

Competition (or co-operation) between developers leads to optimised interface on the phone. If you regularly buy the same ticket you can just save the QR. Most users set things up ahead of reaching the machine so its a case of Present phone with QR - Check displayed selection - Pay - Collect, speeding things up.

Never happen of course.

The alternative is to open up the current API and allow independent developers to compete to provide improved interfaces. Trial new interfaces on a select few machines at larger stations and test user behaviour. Award time-limited contract to the winner (or winners).

QR codes could also be useful for collection of pre purchased tickets, as that would really speed that up too.

I buy my tickets from FGW online as their pick up codes are shorter than SWT's.

 

[TUC]

I did that for the first time in ages today. By the time I had entered my PIN into the machine she gave me, signed the payment slip and told her what denominations I want I could see why the bank are replacing counter staff with machines...

Although, has anyone tried Post Office self-service machines? They ask so many questions that it takes up to five minutes just to buy a stamp for a letter. Only the Post Office could design a self-service machine that takes three times as long as going to a counter.

 

[scuffleball]

Although the tvm allows buying tickets from another station, sometimes it says "no tickets available" if you try to buy an extension ticket.

 

[Retorus]

I wish more people used the ticket office, it'd greatly reduce the number of hopeless so and sos who can't work a touch screen.

 

[Cliveblackpool]

My reasons for using ticket offices.

1. If an unfamiliar journey - getting the right ticket.
2. Making sure I have the cheapest ticket.
3. To help keep the staff in jobs.
4. Take all legal forms of payment.
5. Having a manned station - security, information - delays etc
I would use a TVM if it saved me missing my train.

Shops - ''unexpected item in ....'' Grhh! etc

 

[Aldaniti]

Although, has anyone tried Post Office self-service machines? They ask so many questions that it takes up to five minutes just to buy a stamp for a letter. Only the Post Office could design a self-service machine that takes three times as long as going to a counter.

I didn't realise the Post Office had introduced these machines. Dear oh Lord.... The Post Office is one of a few retail outlets that I just dread going into. I buy my stamps and other postage paraphinalia from anywhere - absolutely anywhere - other than the Post Office. The queues are dreadful, and then when I've waited 10-15 minutes and conducted my business, I'm invariably asked whether I want a loan/credit card/savings account/insurance policy etc. etc. The last time I was in the Post Office I told the cashier I didn't want any of them before she even opened her mouth. Obviously it's not the cashiers fault, they do the job they are told to do, as is often the case it's inept management.

And they wonder why less and less people are using them.

 

[Prairie_5542]

Someone might be partially sighted or Disabled so can't read the TVM screen.

 

[Drsatan]

I buy most of my tickets online, and collect them from a TVM. If I'm buying a walk-on ticket, then I'll look it up on brfares first to make sure a) I'm buying the right ticket for my journey and time at which I will be travelling and b) to try to ascertain I won't be overcharged.

I've only used a ticket office once in the past three months, and that was to buy a ticket using an RTV.

 

[wheelnrail]

A ticket office will almost always accept a swipe card, you know the credit/debit cards with the magnetic strip. Im my case that's all i have. Most TVM's that I've used do not allow for such a transaction to happen. I know when I have to travel and don't have cash, I usually go to a ticket office and have them do it. Plus I can inquire on something should I feel like it. It's slower but sometimes that is the only option.

 

[Holly]

A ticket office will almost always accept a swipe card, you know the credit/debit cards with the magnetic strip. Im my case that's all i have. Most TVM's that I've used do not allow for such a transaction to happen. I know when I have to travel and don't have cash, I usually go to a ticket office and have them do it. Plus I can inquire on something should I feel like it. It's slower but sometimes that is the only option.

Yes, almost all American credit cards have the magnetic strip but not any chip.

Long ago American tourists switched from carrying large amounts of cash to travelers checks (sic). Then switched to credit cards when travellers cheques were no longer accepted. Then switched to debit cards to avoid big fees. Now their cards are commonly rejected due to not having a chip so the Americans who come to visit me have gone back to carrying cash.
And now there is talk of outlawing cash one day so I suppose we will eventually end up back with barter for precious metals. Coins made of gold, silver and copper as they were 100 years ago.

Society is in danger of becoming non-functional when the internet goes down for an extended period as one day it surely will. For example, a repeat of the solar storm of 1859 would probably put it out of action for weeks.

 

[me123]

And now there is talk of outlawing cash one day so I suppose we will eventually end up back with barter for precious metals. Coins made of gold, silver and copper as they were 100 years ago.

Huh? Outlawing cash? Given that cash is effectively issued by the government, it would be a rather bizarre move to make the currency it issues illegal. :?

I know there's lots of talk about mobile payments and the decline of cash, but I highly doubt that cash will disappear in our lifetime.

 

[DaleCooper]

Society is in danger of becoming non-functional when the internet goes down for an extended period as one day it surely will. For example, a repeat of the solar storm of 1859 would probably put it out of action for weeks.

You will be accused of pessimism - until it happens and then everyone will say "Why was this allowed to happen?"

 

[island]

Huh? Outlawing cash? Given that cash is effectively issued by the government, it would be a rather bizarre move to make the currency it issues illegal. :?

I know there's lots of talk about mobile payments and the decline of cash, but I highly doubt that cash will disappear in our lifetime.

Not just talk. A number of EU countries, though not the UK, have laws prohibiting transactions over a certain amount from being paid for in cash.

 

[DaleCooper]

Not just talk. A number of EU countries, though not the UK, have laws prohibiting transactions over a certain amount from being paid for in cash.

Have you got a source for that or is it a Daily Mail story?

 

[me123]

Not just talk. A number of EU countries, though not the UK, have laws prohibiting transactions over a certain amount from being paid for in cash.

Yes. High value transactions. This is a law relating to money laundering and tax evasion. It has nothing to do with the legitimate purchases of train tickets at a ticket vending machine!

 

[island]

Have you got a source for that or is it a Daily Mail story?

A quick Google search would have found you plenty, including http://www.shiftfrequency.com/cash-bans-increase-globally/ and http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx_mobile.html .

Your apology is accepted in advance.

 

[Llanigraham]

A quick Google search would have found you plenty, including http://www.shiftfrequency.com/cash-bans-increase-globally/ and http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx_mobile.html .

Your apology is accepted in advance.

Your first link doesn't give any actual details or facts.
The second leads to an advert.

 

[DaleCooper]

A quick Google search would have found you plenty, including http://www.shiftfrequency.com/cash-bans-increase-globally/ and http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx_mobile.html .

Your apology is accepted in advance.

I don't see any need to apologise for asking a question.

Your first link doesn't give any actual details or facts.
The second leads to an advert.

Well, I am surprised.

 

[me123]

Your first link doesn't give any actual details or facts.

I'm defending "island" here: yes it does give details and facts regarding legal limits on cash transactions. Quite explicitly.

Next in line is a ban on cash. Several European countries have already placed heavy restrictions on the use of cash:

Italy made cash transactions over €1,000 illegal;
Switzerland has proposed banning cash payments in excess of 100,000 francs;
Russia banned cash transactions over $10,000;
Spain banned cash transactions over €2,500;
Mexico made cash payments of more than 200,000 pesos illegal;
Uruguay banned cash transactions over $5,000; and
France made cash transactions over €1,000 illegal, down from the previous limit of €3,000.

The second link isn't working for me either, which isn't surprising me given that the address appears to be for a "welcome" page (although Forbes magazine is, in all fairness, difficult to link to because of their insistence to preface every article with an advert).