Virgin Trains removes standard class quiet zone; worst intercity TOC in living memory

[All Line Rover]

Not content with removing the first class quiet zone from all of its Pendolino trains - making it impossible to carry on any meaningful work in a quiet environment given that the standard class quiet zone on Pendolinos has a total of six (yes six!) power sockets - Virgin Trains West Coast is apparently planning to get rid of the standard class quiet zone also, on both its Pendolino and Voyager trains. This gives it the proud title of being the first intercity train operating company ever (perhaps the first train operator of any sort, ever?) to remove a standard class quiet zone from its entire fleet of trains. Which is not surprising, as it simply continues its long established tradition of treating its customers with utter contempt.

East Coast, East Midlands Trains, First Great Western, Greater Anglia, Hull Trains and South West Trains all provide a standard class quiet zone for their passengers, as did their predecessors. Even c2c, a wholly commuter train operator, provides a quiet zone for its passengers. CrossCountry, which scaled back its provision of quiet coaches due to gross overcrowding on its short trains, still recognises the value of a standard class quiet coach as it continues to provide one on its longer HST trains.

Has any other train operator ever removed a standard class quiet zone from its entire fleet of trains? What did British Rail provide?

 

[Darandio]

What did British Rail provide?

First class, second class, no power sockets and a payphone.

I'll bet people managed to get work done though..........

 

[falcon]

All the TOC are finding it unenforcable and all will most likely follow suit.Too much tech now phones going off all over,all the time let allone all the gaming and internet.

 

[CharlieSpotted]

Quiet zones are, in my eyes, utterly pointless. They're never quiet and nobody is ever interested in policing them. The arbitrary rules that govern them are pointless. Talking on your mobile, however quietly, is not allowed... shouting across the aisle to your mates on the other side is fine.

Might as well not bother.

Travelling in a sealed metal tube with hundreds of other members of the public will always be a noisy experience, I think. You've just got to find your own way to deal with that.

 

[fowler9]

Not content with removing the first class quiet zone from all of its Pendolino trains - making it impossible to carry on any meaningful work in a quiet environment given that the standard class quiet zone on Pendolinos has a total of six (yes six!) power sockets - Virgin Trains West Coast is apparently planning to get rid of the standard class quiet zone also, on both its Pendolino and Voyager trains. This gives it the proud title of being the first intercity train operating company ever (perhaps the first train operator of any sort, ever?) to remove a standard class quiet zone from its entire fleet of trains. Which is not surprising, as it simply continues its long established tradition of treating its customers with utter contempt.

East Coast, East Midlands Trains, First Great Western, Greater Anglia, Hull Trains and South West Trains all provide a standard class quiet zone for their passengers, as did their predecessors. Even c2c, a wholly commuter train operator, provides a quiet zone for its passengers. CrossCountry, which scaled back its provision of quiet coaches due to gross overcrowding on its short trains, still recognises the value of a standard class quiet coach as it continues to provide one on its longer HST trains.

Has any other train operator ever removed a standard class quiet zone from its entire fleet of trains? What did British Rail provide?

I really don't recall British Rail having Quiet Zones to be honest. I think you would just use First Class if you needed a quiet zone. Of course it is only fairly recently that people have been able to get so much work done on a train using laptops etc. Back when the Railways were privatised not so many people had mobile phones and laptops. When I entered the world of work in 1998 I had no mobile phone, our work in the office was done on dumb terminals and any none standard letters required went to the typing pool. And this was for a massive insurance company.

 

[Deepgreen]

UK quiet zones have never worked, but on Swiss railways they are very strictly enforced - by passengers! I was talking very quietly to a traveling companion on one occasion and was immediately 'pounced' upon and asked to be quiet!

They are a recent introduction and will not survive for long.

 

[thealexweb]

Transpennine Express have removed their quiet zone. I used to always made sure to make use of it. I have since moved over to Virgin Trains West Coast for a variety of reasons. But now they have gone and done the same...

 

[blotred]

Quiet Zones are pointless.
If you are serious about getting work done in peace, get some noise cancelling headphones.

When I was in Japan, people were so polite about being quiet on the train. Coming back to the UK made me sad in that regard

 

[virgintrain1]

Cross Country now just display posters reminding passengers to respect other passengers.

 

[Jonny]

Quiet zones are frankly unenforceable. They were inspired by a case that occurred aboard an airliner, where mobile 'phones are a potential safety risk (allegedly) due to electromagnetic/radio frequency interference.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Quiet Zones are pointless.
If you are serious about getting work done in peace, get some noise cancelling headphones.

When I was in Japan, people were so polite about being quiet on the train. Coming back to the UK made me sad in that regard

Well, it's not like they feel the need to arrange pickup from the end of their journey, especially if the particular train (and exact destination for that matter) are unknown, possibly until boarding. If you don't know exactly which train you are going to get until you board, and have two possible stations on the same ticket, then the soonest one can 'phone is on board.

 

[Llanigraham]

Not content with removing the first class quiet zone from all of its Pendolino trains - making it impossible to carry on any meaningful work in a quiet environment given that the standard class quiet zone on Pendolinos has a total of six (yes six!) power sockets - Virgin Trains West Coast is apparently planning to get rid of the standard class quiet zone also, on both its Pendolino and Voyager trains. This gives it the proud title of being the first intercity train operating company ever (perhaps the first train operator of any sort, ever?) to remove a standard class quiet zone from its entire fleet of trains. Which is not surprising, as it simply continues its long established tradition of treating its customers with utter contempt.

East Coast, East Midlands Trains, First Great Western, Greater Anglia, Hull Trains and South West Trains all provide a standard class quiet zone for their passengers, as did their predecessors. Even c2c, a wholly commuter train operator, provides a quiet zone for its passengers. CrossCountry, which scaled back its provision of quiet coaches due to gross overcrowding on its short trains, still recognises the value of a standard class quiet coach as it continues to provide one on its longer HST trains.

Has any other train operator ever removed a standard class quiet zone from its entire fleet of trains? What did British Rail provide?

Good grief!!

They are trains.
People travel by trains.
People make a noise.
They are NOT an office.

If you want quietness I suggest you travel in your own car.

 

[fowler9]

Given the prevalence of open plan offices these days, of which I have worked in many and they are far from quiet, it is surprising to me that some people suddenly need a quiet zone when on the train.

 

[Pumbaa]

TOC introduces quiet zones.

Passengers like quiet zones.

Some individuals ignore quiet zones.

TOCs find it difficult to police quiet zones.

Complaints go up, satisfaction goes down.

TOC remove quiet zones.

Complaints go down, satisfaction goes up.

Simples.

 

[Darandio]

Given the prevalence of open plan offices these days, of which I have worked in many and they are far from quiet, it is surprising to me that some people suddenly need a quiet zone when on the train.

It's just another thing to complain about really. Just wait until they remove seats............

 

[BanburyBlue]

I always had a poor view of Virgin, but that changed once Arriva took over the XC franchise!

 

[bramling]

Not content with removing the first class quiet zone from all of its Pendolino trains - making it impossible to carry on any meaningful work in a quiet environment given that the standard class quiet zone on Pendolinos has a total of six (yes six!) power sockets - Virgin Trains West Coast is apparently planning to get rid of the standard class quiet zone also, on both its Pendolino and Voyager trains. This gives it the proud title of being the first intercity train operating company ever (perhaps the first train operator of any sort, ever?) to remove a standard class quiet zone from its entire fleet of trains. Which is not surprising, as it simply continues its long established tradition of treating its customers with utter contempt.

East Coast, East Midlands Trains, First Great Western, Greater Anglia, Hull Trains and South West Trains all provide a standard class quiet zone for their passengers, as did their predecessors. Even c2c, a wholly commuter train operator, provides a quiet zone for its passengers. CrossCountry, which scaled back its provision of quiet coaches due to gross overcrowding on its short trains, still recognises the value of a standard class quiet coach as it continues to provide one on its longer HST trains.

Has any other train operator ever removed a standard class quiet zone from its entire fleet of trains? What did British Rail provide?

Shame, although sadly they've never really worked that well because there's no enforcement. And you see the ridiculous situation of someone being admonished by others for their phone ringing, whilst meanwhile the family from hell can be sitting screaming away.

Perhaps if the carriage was utterly plastered with notices along the lines of "This is the quiet coach - if you don't want to be quiet please use the other 10 carriages", it might improve compliance a little. The current signage isn't overly obvious, leading to people finding themselves in there without realising.

On balance I'd rather they were retained.

 

[DaleCooper]

I find people working on their laptop more annoying than a bit of normal human noise. Why can't they take the opportunity to relax, read or enjoy the view? Is it because they think they're so important that the world will end if they don't send that email or complete that spreadsheet? No wonder people suffer from stress these days. By the way, what happened to the simple technology of earplugs?

 

[All Line Rover]

Quiet zones are not some relic of the past. They work well on the Continent, in Japan, even in the US (of all places!).

They don't work well in a system where the only question is "stuff passengers - how much are we going to make for the treasury?", with private operators then handed a monopoly to do as they please.

Virgin Trains has the longest trains of any train operator in the UK, and in my view therefore has the least excuse of any to remove the standard class quiet zone. Coach A always fills up quickly. If a minority of passengers are causing problems, just make the signgage more prominent and more explicit (a simple and cost effective option which no UK train operator has ever managed to grasp).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Perhaps if the carriage was utterly plastered with notices along the lines of "This is the quiet coach - if you don't want to be quiet please use the other 10 carriages", it might improve compliance a little. The current signage isn't overly obvious, leading to people finding themselves in there without realising.

On balance I'd rather they were retained.

And until that is tried I will never accept the suggestion that the quiet zone should be removed.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

By the way, what happened to the simple technology of earplugs?

Earplugs drown out low frequency noises (such as the rumble of a diesel engine) but they don't drown out high frequency noises (such as loud speech). Noise cancelling headphones have the same problem, unfortunately. It's taking an awfully long time for the technology to be improved.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

All the TOC are finding it unenforcable

They're never quiet and nobody is ever interested in policing them.

Rubbish.

I challenge you to try using your mobile in Coach A of the 05.28 ex Hereford, or indeed any of the peak morning Cotswold Line trains.

You will soon find that the regulars, if you'll excuse my American English, rip you a new one. Though given that (when I used to commute on this train a few years back) one of the regulars was a senior surgeon at St Mary's in Paddington, at least there'd be someone there to sew you back together afterwards.

 

[thebigcheese]

Is it because they think they're so important that the world will end if they don't send that email or complete that spreadsheet?

Not quite... it's so when I get home I can have a beer and watch telly rather than catch up with work I could have got done on the train. (I'm self-employed btw)

 

[fowler9]

I think it must be pretty hard to enforce, by all means the passengers on that train could take their own measures to to enforce it but could end up in trouble. I all honesty it probably makes more sense for the TOC to remove the quiet coach and remove a load of complaints from their stats. Are Quiet Coaches part of their franchise agreements? I really wouldn't know. Also I'm really not sure they used to exist in the dark and dismal 80's and 90's.

 

[DaleCooper]

Not quite... it's so when I get home I can have a beer and watch telly rather than catch up with work I could have got done on the train. (I'm self-employed btw)

Is that deliberately ironic?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I find people working on their laptop more annoying than a bit of normal human noise.

I don't mind human or office noises. The one thing I don't like is being forced to share someone else's movie. Use headphones if listening to any kind of personal entertainment (there's a clue in the name). I would like rail staff to enforce that without being asked, as having to report the matter can be awkward.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Is that deliberately ironic?

I didn't see what was ironic about it. Many of us have work patterns more dictated by how much work there is to get done than strict hours. And it's a quite valid choice to do that work on the train.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Also I'm really not sure they used to exist in the dark and dismal 80's and 90's.

I'm pretty sure the first quiet coach on British railways was introduced by Great Western Trains - I think immediately post-privatisation, but it might have been when it was operating as a shadow franchise. Rather oddly it was called 'Business Standard' at first rather than 'Quiet Coach'.

 

[thenorthern]

Are you sure they are getting rid of them? I hope they don't as it will mean I have nothing to moan about on Twitter. In my view Virgin Trains had the best coach as quiet at being at the front of the train the only people who entered Coach A were people who needed to get a seat and not people walking though.

Regarding three pin sockets they are becoming obsolete on trains in my opinion as most of the time now when people charge their phones they want to use USB cables instead.

CrossCountry do still have them on their HSTs but not on their Voyagers or Turbostars which given the length of those trains I can see why.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Regarding three pin sockets they are becoming obsolete on trains in my opinion as most of the time now when people charge their phones they want to use USB cables instead.

They are a standard that has existed for years and will continue to exist for years. USB will come and go - indeed the new USB standard is not backward compatible without an adapter. So USB ports would have been a bad investment. A small low-profile 13A-USB charger doesn't take up much space in your bag.

They may be obsoleted by improvements in battery technology, though.

CrossCountry do still have them on their HSTs but not on their Voyagers or Turbostars which given the length of those trains I can see why.

XC Voyagers (and VT ones) do have a 13A type socket at every pair of seats.

 

[thenorthern]

XC Voyagers (and VT ones) do have a 13A type socket at every pair of seats.

I was on about quiet zones.

 

[asylumxl]

First world problems come to mind. It's not the end of the world, though I'm sure some people will miss it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I was on about quiet zones.

Oh, sorry.

 

[Ianno87]

When people get upset by others making noise in a quiet zone, it's not really the fact they're making noise that gets them upset - it's the fact that people are breaking a (let's face it, fairly arbitrary) rule. It's what makes us British!

Don't get me wrong, when I sit in the quiet zone myself I respect it and don't make unnecessary noise. But if others start making noise I don't get angry, I just leave them to it as I figure I'll live longer if I don't let such trivial things stress me out.