Creation of class 230 DEMUs from ex-LU D78s by Vivarail

[CLH]

Out of interest how qualified are you in crash testing to make such a statement? And why would they write off a vehicle just to appease someone on a forum?

I'm not a destructive test engineer or anything - but trains don't just move around at 36kph and only crash into relatively light (compared to what they could face - a Lorry at a level crossing or God forbid another train).

By the way, they teach you about crashes as part of forces and momentum in GCSE and A Level Physics.

 

[Haydn1971]

I'm not a destructive test engineer or anything - but trains don't just move around at 36kph and only crash into relatively light (compared to what they could face - a Lorry at a level crossing or God forbid another train).

Why do a crash test at a higher speed than is required by the standards - please see my earlier post 2242

 

[WatcherZero]

Do we have any dimensions on those 200hp 'generator rafts'?
I know they are 900mm or less tall but what about width of length.

Trying to eyeball any empty space below the solebar of the PEP EMUs.
Class 315 electrodiesel....

On the topic of the rafts I was rather alarmed to hear they are not secured to the under frame (i.e. bolted in with rubber dampening fittings), they are merely lowered in to the support frame by crane and left to gravity to keep in place. They must therefore produce a heck of a lot of vibration both from operation and from shifting.

 

[Trog]

indeed... Whilst it would cover some collisions, i'd be interested to see how an intercity hitting it at 90mph would go.

46 009?

 

[Haydn1971]

46 009?

A nuclear waste flask would probably come off a tad better than a 230

 

[Chris125]

On the topic of the rafts I was rather alarmed to hear they are not secured to the under frame (i.e. bolted in with rubber dampening fittings), they are merely lowered in to the support frame by crane and left to gravity to keep in place. They must therefore produce a heck of a lot of vibration both from operation and from shifting.

Not necessarily - if they were seated on something that dampens the vibrations they wouldn't need to be physically bolted in place, and I've not seen it mentioned as an issue by those who've been on the test runs.

 

[WatcherZero]

Test runs only got up to 30mph

 

[jopsuk]

the test runs haven't gone faster than that yet because they've not yet been on a line that allows faster

 

[Murph]

Not necessarily - if they were seated on something that dampens the vibrations they wouldn't need to be physically bolted in place, and I've not seen it mentioned as an issue by those who've been on the test runs.

I agree, there's no reason why that style of mounting can't have reasonable vibration isolation.

Test runs only got up to 30mph

So what? These are diesel-electrics, so they will likely be able to experience the engine running at all operational throttle settings even with a low speed limit. Unless there's a reason to limit the power output, chances are they are able to try them at full throttle either from a standing start or shortly after they move off. They just won't be able to hold them on full throttle for as long as if they were accelerating to a higher speed.

That's only in terms of noise and vibration from the engines, and the basic ability to deliver tractive effort, of course. There are other characteristics which clearly can only be evaluated through running at higher speeds.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

According to Rail Magazine's current issue. The lights on the front are stickers.

 

[Chris125]

So what? These are diesel-electrics, so they will likely be able to experience the engine running at all operational throttle settings even with a low speed limit.

Exactly - if vibration was a serious issue it would surely be apparent even at lower speeds, but I see no reason to think it is.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

WTF???.........

Lost!.......

 

[IanXC]

WTF???.........

Lost!.......

I could not agree more! I have split the discussion of A-Level course content into a new thread: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=120362

Please ensure this thread remains on topic!

Thanks

 

[Mikey C]

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/london-underground-tube-trains-could-10012896#rlabs=2%20rt$category%20p$1

The use of these trains to serve the Ricoh arena has been suggested. Coventry City Council officials AND DoT officials visited Vivarail to have a look...

 

[Bletchleyite]

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/london-underground-tube-trains-could-10012896#rlabs=2%20rt$category%20p$1

The use of these trains to serve the Ricoh arena has been suggested. Coventry City Council officials AND DoT officials visited Vivarail to have a look...

Does seem a reasonable fit. The article suggests "no seats" which is rubbish (there is no proposal for seatless D78s), but a 3-car set with the existing D-stock layout may well suit quite well - enough seats for normal use, and enough crush space for football use. If there is a spare kept locally, 6-car (SDO?) or an increased service could perhaps operate when needed.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

On the topic of the rafts I was rather alarmed to hear they are not secured to the under frame (i.e. bolted in with rubber dampening fittings), they are merely lowered in to the support frame by crane and left to gravity to keep in place. They must therefore produce a heck of a lot of vibration both from operation and from shifting.

Trains are not secured to the rails. Do they "produce a heck of a lot of vibration from operation and from shifting"?

It depends how well they fit and what damping is provided.

 

[Domh245]

Out of interest, how are engine rafts secured in place on other DMUs?

 

[Clip]

Under the seat of the person in front.
















Couldn't resist sorry

 

[northwichcat]

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/london-underground-tube-trains-could-10012896#rlabs=2%20rt$category%20p$1

The use of these trains to serve the Ricoh arena has been suggested. Coventry City Council officials AND DoT officials visited Vivarail to have a look...

Ambiguous sentence:

London Midland, which operates services on the line, has said it can only run one train an hour for 75 people due to a shortage of diesel-powered stock.

Presumably that means they can only use a 153 with 75 seats, opposed to a maximum capacity of 75. The way it's written could imply LM can only run 1tph because only 75 people an hour would use it, which seems completely fair.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The way it's written could imply LM can only run 1tph because only 75 people an hour would use it, which seems completely fair.

I don't think they are seeking to do that. It's simply that the only DMU they have available to run the service without cutting other services is a 153.

 

[nuneatonmark]

At the weekends it's normally 2 x 153s now.

 

[route:oxford]

Trains are not secured to the rails. Do they "produce a heck of a lot of vibration from operation and from shifting"?

It depends how well they fit and what damping is provided.

I've found from experience that engines that are "secured" result in considerable more vibration than engines that are mounted in accordance with design.

 

[sciisfun]

Any news as when their being put into service in plymouth?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I've found from experience that engines that are "secured" result in considerable more vibration than engines that are mounted in accordance with design.

However the engines are held in place, I assume they will be tested under working conditions to ensure they don't fall out causing a derailment. Of course things will go wrong at some point, as demonstrated by the incidents that a couple of 142s suffered.

 

[jimm]

Any news as when their being put into service in plymouth?

Doubt it will be before next year. They don't expect to have the complete prototype train ready until November and it's then going to have some initial test running from Long Marston out on the Cotswold Line from Honeybourne to Evesham and back. Presumably it won't be going anywhere a passenger service until it has got a good few fault-free miles under its belt.

 

[northwichcat]

There's a load of rubbish in an article written by the MEN on the D-Train including this.

Adriansaid: “Although the shells are 30 years old, they are aluminium with no corosion - as good as new. The bogies are good too.”

Yes the two typos in one sentence are from the original article.
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...watch-refurbished-london-tube-trains-10060857

 

[Blindtraveler]

Presumably it won't be going anywhere a passenger service until it has got a good few fault-free miles under its belt.

Which, barring any issues with the new engines woant be to tough given that not too much else has been meddled with? Or am I under estimating?

Use on the Cov Nuneaton Shuttles makes sense given its pritty self contained and frees up a Dogbox for something like Marsden Vale which suffers often sadly.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Which, barring any issues with the new engines woant be to tough given that not too much else has been meddled with? Or am I under estimating?

The train has new electrical control equipment and has alternator and inverter arrangement from the two diesel engines. That's all got to be tested with the on-board signalling - TPWS, AWS and the OTDR, and any other systems which might be impacted by EM interference issues.

The whole train then needs to be tested to ensure it doesn't upset the trackside signalling systems and nothing unusual happens if it goes near electrified routes, either 750V DC or 25kV AC.

That's a lot of work, but they've gone with a fairly experienced company for that, in the form of Strukton, but they're relative newcomers to the UK market.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The use of these trains to serve the Ricoh arena has been suggested. Coventry City Council officials AND DoT officials visited Vivarail to have a look...

Any idea what was the outcome of this visit?

 

[Clip]

Any idea what was the outcome of this visit?

Its in the story that he linked too

Francis Thomas, from London Midland, said the operators would not rule Vivarail out as a long term answer to matchday and event travel problems at the Ricoh Arena.
He added: “My understanding is that it’s very early days for Vivarail, I don’t think they have a full size working vehicle yet.

“It’s not something that could be put into service as soon as the station opens, but we remain open to all solutions for matchday and event travel at the Ricoh Arena.

“In the meantime, we remain committed to working with the Ricoh Arena owners to find a solution.”

 

[Bletchleyite]

LM, of course, already have one D78-esque solution in operation in the form of the Parry People Movers.