Chiltern Oxford Link completed

[aylesbury]

Looking at the complaints in Oxford about vibration and noise perhaps the track should be mounted on rubber mats to cut this down.Is the old bridge beside the station going to be restored ?

 

[swt_passenger]

Looking at the complaints in Oxford about vibration and noise perhaps the track should be mounted on rubber mats to cut this down.

Maybe they should have built the houses properly in the first place, this seems to be clutching at straws by the local Nimby faction...

Is the old bridge beside the station going to be restored ?

The swing bridge? No, the plans have always shown they are going round it. Why would they ever need to restore it, it is at completely the wrong level for the main station?

 

[jimm]

Looking at the complaints in Oxford about vibration and noise perhaps the track should be mounted on rubber mats to cut this down.Is the old bridge beside the station going to be restored ?

The Oxford Preservation Trust wants to cosmetically restore the swing bridge to stop it deteriorating further but it won't be used for trains again. As noted above, it's well below the ex-GWR tracks.

http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/10731699.___We_need_money_to_protect_these_crumbling_landmarks___/

 

[edwin_m]

Maybe they should have built the houses properly in the first place, this seems to be clutching at straws by the local Nimby faction...

We all know what happened to the houses that were built from straws.

 

[embers25]

And why wouldn't they have been interavailable anyway? It would have been plain daft to do anything else.

Because Bicester Town fares can be MUCH cheaper.

 

[Andyjs247]

And why wouldn't they have been interavailable anyway? It would have been plain daft to do anything else.

Well stranger things have happened - there's not always much logic and common sense when it comes to fares and pricing. As has been noted there has been separate fares quoted from the two stations to the same destination - well into the 12 week period before start of service on 26 October when advance tickets become available.

As to the practicality of interavailabity, does anyone know if Chiltern's shuttle bus from Bicester North to Bicester Village becomes redundant, will someone else provide an alternative or do you walk? If travelling from say Birmingham specifically to visit BV, is that valid via Oxford or via Haddenham even? What about routing to Birmingham with an origin of Bicester stations?

Because Bicester Town fares can be MUCH cheaper.

Quite!

 

[RobLawrence]

And why wouldn't they have been interavailable anyway? It would have been plain daft to do anything else.

It would have. But as recently as last week, some Chiltern ticket staff themselves thought it was possible that the two routes would have non-interchangeable seasons. I was glad I checked (not least because my service to work leaves BCS, and my normal return will, from later this month, arrive at BIT!)

 

[jimm]

Well stranger things have happened - there's not always much logic and common sense when it comes to fares and pricing. As has been noted there has been separate fares quoted from the two stations to the same destination - well into the 12 week period before start of service on 26 October when advance tickets become available.

As to the practicality of interavailabity, does anyone know if Chiltern's shuttle bus from Bicester North to Bicester Village becomes redundant, will someone else provide an alternative or do you walk? If travelling from say Birmingham specifically to visit BV, is that valid via Oxford or via Haddenham even? What about routing to Birmingham with an origin of Bicester stations?

Well what actually happened was that someone, somehow, uploaded a lot of incorrect fare information into the system, so no wonder staff and passengers were confused.

From the Obrag website:

Chiltern have made available the final timetable from October 26th and fares at Islip and Bicester. Please ignore the fares previously given both the Chiltern website and NRE (which gave a little cause for concern). Fares to/from Oxford (centre) will be published shortly.

http://www.obrag.org.uk

As far as I know, some form of Bicester North shuttle bus will remain, principally for West Midlands passengers. There may not be the same volume as from London but numbers are healthy enough.

I expect that the Virgin, Chiltern and LM-run stations in the West Midlands, on the 'sell people the cheapest ticket' basis, will sell 'Chiltern route only' ones to Bicester as a matter of course. Via Oxford ones will, if available, have to reflect the levels that Oxford-Birmingham fares are set at by XC. Why would anyone want to travel via Oxford anyway, given the time penalty?

Originally Posted by swt_passenger View Post
I found some £6 Advance fares from Oxford Parkway to Marylebone for the end of October (Friday 30th about this time of night).

It's a good price. A colleague who lives in Kidlington mentioned he'd bought some for the first weekend.

Walk to station and get train to London for around the same price as parking in Oxford for 3 hours on a Saturday!

Ah yes, Kidlington, the community of 17,000 people within walking distance (or at least some parts are, I'm not sure I'd fancy the walk from somewhere up around The Moors, the No2 bus is a better bet) of a brand new railway station that is too insignificant to be mentioned in the station's name...

What's the big deal about a £6 advance from Oxford? It's the same as GWR has offered from Oxford for many a moon, and it was only £4 on some trains not that long ago. And you won't find any of those £6 Chiltern tickets in the peak, whereas you can find an £8 advance between Oxford and London both ways on GWR HSTs at those times of day. And get well up the Cotswold Line for a tenner in the peak. Or to/from Worcester off-peak for £6.

Chiltern's Anytime from Oxford Parkway to Marylebone is £59.80, a hardly amazing 20p less than the GWR ticket to Paddington, so anyone expecting an era of super-cheap fares compared with GWR will be mightily disappointed - as they always were going to be, given that Chiltern has to pay for the infrastructure. So Chiltern's USP will have to be metronomic reliability.

 

[NickBucks]

And of course you will be travelling by a Class 168 DMU rather then the comfort of an HST!

 

[swt_passenger]

And of course you will be travelling by a Class 168 DMU rather then the comfort of an HST!

However there is a single Mk3/68 operated set in the up direction timed specifically for the main commuter flow, leaving around 0720 and taking an hour to Marylebone. Not sure of the time but there's a corresponding down train to match it.

 

[berneyarms]

The inbound loco hauled Mk3 train is 07:24 ex-Oxford Parkway and 07:34 ex-Bicester Village and then non-stop to Marylebone arriving at 08:20.

The return working is at 18:18 from Marylebone, calling at Haddenham & Thame Parkway and Bicester Village en route to Oxford Parkway arriving there at 19:19.

 

[route:oxford]

However there is a single Mk3/68 operated set in the up direction timed specifically for the main commuter flow, leaving around 0720 and taking an hour to Marylebone. Not sure of the time but there's a corresponding down train to match it.

I suspect that one will be popular.

Commuting on a Chiltern 168 is a far different experience compared to travelling on a GWR 165 or 166.

I had two colleagues resign yesterday. They are technically on two months notice - but were escorted from the office immediately due to them being taken on by a competitor.

They both live within a short walk of the new station. Higher pay, promotion and a quicker work-friendly commute on the train compared to the bus were key drivers.

There may be trouble ahead...

 

[HowardGWR]

The inbound loco hauled Mk3 train is 07:24 ex-Oxford Parkway and 07:34 ex-Bicester Village and then non-stop to Marylebone arriving at 08:20.

The return working is at 18:18 from Marylebone, calling at Haddenham & Thame Parkway and Bicester Village en route to Oxford Parkway arriving there at 19:19.

And you'll be two stops further along the Bakerloo!

 

[jimm]

Commuting on a Chiltern 168 is a far different experience compared to travelling on a GWR 165 or 166.

And who on earth commutes to London from Oxford on a 165 or 166? The only 'peak' fast Turbo, for very early risers, in either direction is the 05.43 from Oxford.

And you'll be two stops further along the Bakerloo!

And nowhere near Crossrail when it opens.

 

[HowardGWR]

And nowhere near Crossrail when it opens.

Indeed, I thought of that too, but commuting is a refined art. It might be a longer trek to the PAD XR station than from, say, walk to Baker St sub surface and then direct to City). Then again, it might also depend on different levels of overcrowding between the two solutions. In either case, one is joining a train perhaps already full to bursting. I have seen discussions about people joining XR from far out, because they can then get a seat and don't have to change at Paddington (or Marylebone in the case of Chiltern).

 

[backontrack]

Which trains will they use to Oxford? I think they'll probably use the refurbished silver trains at first, before reverting to the boring white ones.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Which trains will they use to Oxford? I think they'll probably use the refurbished silver trains at first, before reverting to the boring white ones.

One train each way at peak times will be loco-hauled. The rest will likely be 168s and maybe 172s.

 

[route:oxford]

And who on earth commutes to London from Oxford on a 165 or 166? The only 'peak' fast Turbo, for very early risers, in either direction is the 05.43 from Oxford.

Clearly more people than you think!

The GWR mainline has been a real a disaster of late between signalling issues and regular fatalities at the usual Burnham.

The reality for the *real* commuter is that you take the first available train Eastbound or Westbound no matter the shape or colour of it in a desperate bid to get to work or get home.

And nowhere near Crossrail when it opens.

Well, that is a benefiit of Reading with a single platform change to CrossRail.


Clearly GWR are terrified of this new service with the ban on taxis bearing promotion artwork for Chiltern at Oxford Central.

 

[Andyjs247]

Well what actually happened was that someone, somehow, uploaded a lot of incorrect fare information into the system, so no wonder staff and passengers were confused.

From the Obrag website:



http://www.obrag.org.uk

As far as I know, some form of Bicester North shuttle bus will remain, principally for West Midlands passengers. There may not be the same volume as from London but numbers are healthy enough.

I expect that the Virgin, Chiltern and LM-run stations in the West Midlands, on the 'sell people the cheapest ticket' basis, will sell 'Chiltern route only' ones to Bicester as a matter of course. Via Oxford ones will, if available, have to reflect the levels that Oxford-Birmingham fares are set at by XC. Why would anyone want to travel via Oxford anyway, given the time penalty?

As to why you might want to go via Oxford there is a better service frequency. One of the side-effects of introducing the Oxford service is that in the new timetable the service north from Bicester has been reduced. Typically off-peak there will be 1tph Birmingham plus 1tph Banbury terminator. So for example there is a 1327 departure from Bicester North to Birmingham Snow Hill then a 1343 to Banbury followed by 1427 to Snow Hill. But then the next train is the 1527 to Snow Hill and 1543 Banbury.

I guess Chiltern's intention is that there will be a 5 minute connection at Banbury into the following Birmingham service which now runs non stop through Bicester to give 1-2tph. Similarly coming south there's a 5 minute connection out of the xx55 from Moor Street at Banbury for Bicester. But the fact remains the service north from Bicester will be worse compared to 2tph to Oxford and 2tph Oxford to Birmingham direct at regular intervals. When the route to Oxford is fully open it will only be 15-20 mins max from Bicester - similar to the trek across town between stations. In some cases it will be better via Oxford as the train goes direct to BV. I wonder if connections will always be held at Banbury coming south and if pax will still be willing to pay £4 for the BV shuttle?

 

[Class 170101]

Stratford Upon Avon has been shafted as well. Looks like one through train each way per day to & from London.

It would have been better to extend the Banbury terminators / starters instead albeit as per timetable with Birminghams passing through with interchange at Leamington giving people a choice of a slower through train or faster journey by changing.

 

[NSEFAN]

Stratford Upon Avon has been shafted as well. Looks like one through train each way per day to & from London.

It would have been better to extend the Banbury terminators / starters instead albeit as per timetable with Birminghams passing through with interchange at Leamington giving people a choice of a slower through train or faster journey by changing.

That's a better service than I was expecting! I thought all Stratford services would now be shuttles from Leamington Spa?

 

[The Planner]

Stratford has been done to death on here, Chiltern aren't bothered about it. The Banbury terminator couldn't carry on to Stratford anyway unless it became a 168 as it would get caught by the one behind it.

 

[jimm]

Indeed, I thought of that too, but commuting is a refined art. It might be a longer trek to the PAD XR station than from, say, walk to Baker St sub surface and then direct to City). Then again, it might also depend on different levels of overcrowding between the two solutions. In either case, one is joining a train perhaps already full to bursting. I have seen discussions about people joining XR from far out, because they can then get a seat and don't have to change at Paddington (or Marylebone in the case of Chiltern).

The Crossrail station is at the south side of Paddington, behind platform 1, so rather less of a trot than Baker Street.

http://www.crossrail.co.uk/route/stations/paddington/

Even if more Crossrail trains end up being projected west of Paddington than initially intended, quite a lot will still start and end their journeys there, so that there is capacity to shift main line passengers into central London. Just providing a procession of eastbound trains at Paddington full of passengers from the suburban stations would utterly defeat the point of the exercise.

And why, given the time penalty compared with a GWR express, would anyone from Reading or anywhere further out join Crossrail before reaching Paddington? Current plans only have two Crossrail services per hour in the peak from Reading anyway.

Clearly more people than you think!

The GWR mainline has been a real a disaster of late between signalling issues and regular fatalities at the usual Burnham.

The reality for the *real* commuter is that you take the first available train Eastbound or Westbound no matter the shape or colour of it in a desperate bid to get to work or get home.

Sorry, I was talking about the normal course of things. Despite all the hoo-ha when things go wrong on the GWML - the reasons for which are well known and oft-discussed elsewhere - in the normal course of things, no one in their right mind gets on a Turbo semi-fast between Oxford and London. And even when things go wrong, not many Oxford commuters, real or otherwise, fancy crushing on to trains full of people heading to stations in the Thames Valley in the evening peak either, that's assuming there is space for them to do so anyway. And things do go wrong on the Chiltern route sometimes, though less often. And no wonder given the age of the signalling kit compared with stuff still out there on the GWML, to take one example.

Clearly GWR are terrified of this new service with the ban on taxis bearing promotion artwork for Chiltern at Oxford Central.

Their station, their rules, and after all the Chiltern-Virgin spats over advertising in recent years, we can probably do without a repeat performance on the cab rank at Oxford station. There are plenty of other ways for Chiltern to get the message across, including poster hoardings in Botley Road right outside the station should they want.

As to why you might want to go via Oxford there is a better service frequency. One of the side-effects of introducing the Oxford service is that in the new timetable the service north from Bicester has been reduced. Typically off-peak there will be 1tph Birmingham plus 1tph Banbury terminator. So for example there is a 1327 departure from Bicester North to Birmingham Snow Hill then a 1343 to Banbury followed by 1427 to Snow Hill. But then the next train is the 1527 to Snow Hill and 1543 Banbury.

I guess Chiltern's intention is that there will be a 5 minute connection at Banbury into the following Birmingham service which now runs non stop through Bicester to give 1-2tph. Similarly coming south there's a 5 minute connection out of the xx55 from Moor Street at Banbury for Bicester. But the fact remains the service north from Bicester will be worse compared to 2tph to Oxford and 2tph Oxford to Birmingham direct at regular intervals. When the route to Oxford is fully open it will only be 15-20 mins max from Bicester - similar to the trek across town between stations. In some cases it will be better via Oxford as the train goes direct to BV. I wonder if connections will always be held at Banbury coming south and if pax will still be willing to pay £4 for the BV shuttle?

Just how much traffic do you think there is between Bicester and the West Midlands? One train direct per hour plus a slick connection with no time penalty at Banbury is probably more than adequate provision. And you might actually get a seat, unlike on XC's services to Oxford. Paying a Chiltern route only fare plus a Bicester Village shuttle bus fare is still going to be a hell of a lot cheaper than any journey via Oxford, where XC doesn't have the capacity and certainly won't be cutting its fares.

 

[Andyjs247]

Stratford Upon Avon has been shafted as well. Looks like one through train each way per day to & from London.

It would have been better to extend the Banbury terminators / starters instead albeit as per timetable with Birminghams passing through with interchange at Leamington giving people a choice of a slower through train or faster journey by changing.

Stratford has been done to death on here, Chiltern aren't bothered about it. The Banbury terminator couldn't carry on to Stratford anyway unless it became a 168 as it would get caught by the one behind it.

Theres still one or two services through to Stratford although none are particularly fast - 1 up and 1 down in the morning and 2 up/2 down in the evening. Interestingly one of the Stratford services (1824 ex MYB) in the new timetable waits for 9 minutes and gets overtaken at Bicester North by the following 1847 to Snow Hill. A nice use of the bi-di signalling.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Just how much traffic do you think there is between Bicester and the West Midlands? One train direct per hour plus a slick connection with no time penalty at Banbury is probably more than adequate provision. And you might actually get a seat, unlike on XC's services to Oxford. Paying a Chiltern route only fare plus a Bicester Village shuttle bus fare is still going to be a hell of a lot cheaper than any journey via Oxford, where XC doesn't have the capacity and certainly won't be cutting its fares.

Chiltern have never really pushed or promoted the service between Bicester and the West Midlands. All the marketing of e.g. the Taxibus and Bicester Village shuttle is very much focussed on journeys to/from London. That's not to say demand doesn't exist to the west midlands also but is likely suppressed. Of more concern perhaps is the cut in frequency that affects local trips/commuting between Banbury and Bicester - the two largest towns in Cherwell District - such that it may be beneficial to go via Oxford.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And whilst we're on the subject, has anyone thought of providing a service to link all of the tourist hotspots - Stratford - Oxford - Bicester Village with London? Would there be capacity off-peak to send an Oxford terminator to Stratford as a through service and back.

 

[route:oxford]

And whilst we're on the subject, has anyone thought of providing a service to link all of the tourist hotspots - Stratford - Oxford - Bicester Village with London? Would there be capacity off-peak to send an Oxford terminator to Stratford as a through service and back.

Will never happen. There is an unwritten enthusiast rule that forbids ToCs from operating new services that require a reversal.

What might work is a "Slow" service from Swindon to Marylebone via a new Wantage station and the Foxhall Curve (avoiding Didcot).

With the egregious fares on the Swindon-Paddington route, people may well be prepared to pay a lower fare for a journey that would take 30 minutes longer.

 

[jimm]

Chiltern have never really pushed or promoted the service between Bicester and the West Midlands. All the marketing of e.g. the Taxibus and Bicester Village shuttle is very much focussed on journeys to/from London. That's not to say demand doesn't exist to the west midlands also but is likely suppressed. Of more concern perhaps is the cut in frequency that affects local trips/commuting between Banbury and Bicester - the two largest towns in Cherwell District - such that it may be beneficial to go via Oxford.

Look, Chiltern are basing their decisions - and don't forget the timetable was revised a long time ago in preparation for the Oxford service - on many years of ticket sales information, including from the period when there were more direct trains between Bicester and the West Midlands. Similarly, demand for travel between Banbury and Oxford and Bicester and Oxford is far higher than between Banbury and Bicester, for which two to three trains per hour seems a perfectly adequate provision. The bus service between the two towns is effectively non-existent these days, hardly suggesting some huge unmet demand for travel.

And whilst we're on the subject, has anyone thought of providing a service to link all of the tourist hotspots - Stratford - Oxford - Bicester Village with London? Would there be capacity off-peak to send an Oxford terminator to Stratford as a through service and back.

If by someone you mean Chiltern, they couldn't care less about Stratford, as we have seen.

In any case, the type of tourists going to Bicester Village tend not to be the same as those interested in visiting Oxford, Stratford and the Cotswolds. Which is why FGW/GWR's declared interest in reviving a Paddington-Oxford-Stratford service makes far more sense in that regard. Oxford is apparently now the second most popular UK destination after London for air passengers arriving at Heathrow, so I'd expect such a service proposal to feature in bids when the post-2019 GW franchise is opened.

 

[67018]

If by someone you mean Chiltern, they couldn't care less about Stratford, as we have seen.

In any case, the type of tourists going to Bicester Village tend not to be the same as those interested in visiting Oxford, Stratford and the Cotswolds. Which is why FGW/GWR's declared interest in reviving a Paddington-Oxford-Stratford service makes far more sense in that regard. Oxford is apparently now the second most popular UK destination after London for air passengers arriving at Heathrow, so I'd expect such a service proposal to feature in bids when the post-2019 GW franchise is opened.

Indeed, the loadings on the airport coaches from Heathrow to Oxford always look pretty healthy which demonstrates a good degree of demand.

An indication of how much Chiltern care about Stratford is that 1824 weekday departure from Marylebone mentioned a few posts up - looks like a horribly slow and turgid journey that takes two and a half hours.

Another thing I've noticed on the new published timetable is that, as well as indicating 'M' for Mainline trains and 'MS' for Silver trains, they also have a 'MH' for 'Mainline Hybrid' (presumably 168+172) and 'H' for 'Heritage' (the Banbury loco hauled set and bubble car).

 

[alexx]

Another thing I've noticed on the new published timetable is that, as well as indicating 'M' for Mainline trains and 'MS' for Silver trains, they also have a 'MH' for 'Mainline Hybrid' (presumably 168+172) and 'H' for 'Heritage' (the Banbury loco hauled set and bubble car).

It's occasionally frustrated me that some trains don't have power sockets and wifi. There's a whole page dedicated to explaining the different train types in the new (post 24th October) timetable, and even how to spot them (apparently there's been a bit of painting going on lately too). See page 11: http://www.chilternrailways.co.uk/s...Timetable 25_10 to 12_12_2015 v2 WEB V2_0.pdf

 

[HowardGWR]

I see the Chiltern timetable still links to Transport Direct. Whoops.

 

[berneyarms]

An indication of how much Chiltern care about Stratford is that 1824 weekday departure from Marylebone mentioned a few posts up - looks like a horribly slow and turgid journey that takes two and a half hours.

You can take the 18:47 Mainline service that overtakes it and change at Leamington Spa.