Joseph_Locke
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Rocket, Lord of the Isles, Sans Pareil, Puffing Billy, Locomotion, ...
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Ordsall Chord
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Rocket, Lord of the Isles, Sans Pareil, Puffing Billy, Locomotion, ...
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SodTheDrummer
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Philip Phlopp
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Lord of the Isles and Sans Pareil have been cut up though 
Elecman
Established Member
Lord of the Isles and Sans Pareil have been cut up though
Shock horror!! Someone actually cut up these most important artefacts of railway history and heritage without a High Court judges approval and 3 appeals?
Philip Phlopp
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I should have got Mark Whitby on the case of 87024.
TBirdFrank
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Nought - absolutely nought out of ten for sarcasm - if you want backhanded comments learn from the master!
As for Blind Lane not assisting with the cross throat problems - I would suggest a trip to Specsavers for all of you.
North East to Liverpools via Picc - Emptyhead - Vic and Chat Moss - no cross throat - and these are the ONLY cross throats
North East to Airports don't cross the throat - they cross the infrstructure further south.
For the rest - I have made my case - you will have to live with the sorry consequences - statistically I'm running out of time so I will be able look down while learning how to handle a stratocaster and laugh!
As for Blind Lane not assisting with the cross throat problems - I would suggest a trip to Specsavers for all of you.
North East to Liverpools via Picc - Emptyhead - Vic and Chat Moss - no cross throat - and these are the ONLY cross throats
North East to Airports don't cross the throat - they cross the infrstructure further south.
For the rest - I have made my case - you will have to live with the sorry consequences - statistically I'm running out of time so I will be able look down while learning how to handle a stratocaster and laugh!
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
It would appear that the only thing that we appear to have in common is that both of us have passed our allotted three score years and ten...:roll:
Sarcasm is one mode of pricking the bubble of self-righteous pomposity that seems to be a common running thread of your postings and the numbers of forum members with whom you have crossed swords in comparison to those backing your viewpoint does seem to tell its own story. You are not alone in claiming to be a past master in the use of sarcasm.
I am not doubting for one moment your long career in industry but did you not have to be reminded in an earlier posting that in response to a posting comment you made concerning forum members whom you so described in a most supercilious term of phrase as not having the same amount of senior-level experience and degree-level as yourself, that in fact there are a number of us with matching service records to yours and work experience in the same echelon of senior management.
GRALISTAIR
Established Member
Lord of the Isles and Sans Pareil have been cut up though
Au contraire - as my father would have said "10/10" for sheer witticism - humor helps IMHO - this Mark Whitby thing and the GWML escapades has me bewildered - so some fun helps.
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Darren R
Established Member
Try as I might this makes no sense to me. How will North East to Liverpool services via Chat Moss call at Piccadilly and Victoria? And where or what is Emptyhead?
I keep trying to teach them but I keep getting told off. To be fair you could use a few lessons to.
My guess would be auto correct for Etihad, however I think the auto correct might be reacting to other posts by the poster.
The route proposed(I think) is Guide Bridge-Piccadilly. Reverse, Piccadilly-Etihad- triangle at Brewery sidings, Miles Platting into Victoria the on to Liverpool via Chat Moss.
I make no comment on the wisdom of this route.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Being in somewhat of a good mood today, I shall not show by username my bête noire who oft inhabits this thread.
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GRALISTAIR
Established Member
10/10 SIR! 
Philip Phlopp
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Ain't she the women that makes the hotpots in the Rovers Return ?
GRALISTAIR
Established Member
Interesting ....I would have thought that a train from the airport to platform 1 (prior to reversal and departure eastwards) has to cross every running line between Slade Lane Junction and Piccadilly at some point. This conflicts with 6 train paths. Does it use track capacity any better to cross the running lines 2 miles away than just off the platform end?
Probably not, but you need to keep the people who cast the crossings in business.
Philip Phlopp
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You might be able to stagger the crossings and increase speed, so not sucking out quite as much capacity with all these conflicting movements, but there are people far more familiar with such things than I who could comment on this.
You guys are outrageous. It was Betty Turpin
Yes I knew that but didn't have the will to live long enough to post.
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Joseph_Locke
Established Member
You guys are outrageous. It was Betty Turpin
Widow of Richard?
You could spread the junction out, but then the southern end will be in area where the speed of the trains whose paths you cross is higher, so it's diminishing returns, as well as ratcheting up the outcome of a head-on conflict, making this option far less likely to survive a JST.
Another possible solution is to provide multiple alternative crossing routes (e.g. duplicate the crossovers) but that effectively doubles the number of ends to maintain and may not physically fit / be practical to signal.
However, all that is just expensive sticky plaster - forcing two busy routes to cross on the flat is never going to be as good / efficient / safe as not crossing on the flat, irrespective of crossover speeds or alternate routing.
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Why is it that this, which seems to have been very well understood in Germany from before the end of the nineteenth century and pretty well grasped in a number of other European countries has never been that popular in this country? One or two of the pre-Grouping companies really did pick up on non-conflicting layouts -- but then progress seemed to go pretty quiet after Grouping. The approach to Piccadilly, with everything on the flat all the way in from Cheadle Hulme, would be pretty well inconceivable for any German station of the same size and system-importance. (Of course the PicVic Act did authorise flyovers at Edgeley and Slade Lane ...)
(And yes, I do remember that right up to the end of the 1950s Manchester London Road was still effectively LNER and LMS stations side by side -- and that the lines of the L&Y Ardwick Branch crossed the LNER running lines on the flat to make their junction with the LMS lines.)
JohnB57
Member
Many of us out here in agnosti-land would excuse you a lot for the sheer entertainment value your defence of the indefensible has generated.
But, not capitalising "Stratocaster"? That's simply taking the mickey mouse...
Construction pictures posted by Freel07 on Skyscrapercity:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=130677259&postcount=1419
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=130677259&postcount=1419
GRALISTAIR
Established Member
Thanks for posting.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
When it was possible for trains from Oldham Clegg Street station to access Manchester London Road station, what former railway company's platforms above were used as the terminal platforms?
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Thanks for the postings
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I think it was the LNER
It was a Great Central service and so used that company's platforms at London Road. Almost all the trains reversed in Guide Bridge, but it was possible to run direct and in April 1910 one train, the 9:23 a.m. from Manchester, was still doing that. I haven't looked to see whether the service continued into LNER days.
I think the strategy at Piccadilly is usually to perform the crossing move on arrival, with a 'straight out' (ish) departure. It means that all trains to the Airport are concentrated on the higher numbered side of the station, with Yorkshire bound trains (excepting those in Platform 13) on the lower side of the station. I remember (in 1993) the days of Platform 9 being the dedicated Airport-bound platform in the main train shed for both the half hourly Class 305-operated stopper and the former hourly Scarborough-Airport service!
Crossing away from the immediate the platform end is usually perceived to be better where possible to avoid delays in des patching trains through waiting for the platform starter signal to show an 'off' aspect. Crossing further out means that the despatch process can be started with only a single yellow showing, reducing delays.
Thanks for that. So crossing the layout at Slade Lane is better which partially justifies Frank's statement - but only partially.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
This also means that if the crossing move can't take place immediately due to other conflicts, the train concerned is only blocking a platform, not blocking one of the approach tracks where there might be other trains stuck behind it.
Because dispatch doesn't start until the signal is clear, a train making the crossing move immediately after leaving the platforms would block all the conflicting routes for the time taken to close the doors as well as the time to make the actual move. Also any delay to dispatch of the train (door problem, late arriving passenger) would lengthen this period of blockage.
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