Izy - Low Cost Rail Paris to Brussels

[phil1960]

Operated by Thalys but with much lower fares. The "downside" is the journey time is extended as it takes the classic line between Paris and the Lille area presumably because of lack of paths:

https://www.izy.com/en/homepage

IZY is giving you the chance to travel between Brussels and Paris at a great price. With tickets from only €19, it has never been so cheap to travel between the two capitals. Also, you can choose the fare that suits you best amongst the available categories: Seat not guaranteed, Folding seat, Standard seat and even a Standard XL option if you prefer some extra comfort. IZY also offers special fares for children and people with reduced mobility.


With IZY, it’s simple and hassle-free. IZY takes you from the heart of Paris to the centre of Brussels in no more than 2 and a half hours. There are 2 trains per day between the two cities during the week and up to 3 per day on Fridays and Sundays! Thanks to IZY’s timetables, return journeys on the same day are easily manageable, so you can enjoy a brunch in Paris or an exhibition in Brussels and be back home in the evening.

Phil

 

[Groningen]

From what i saw traveltime is 2 hours and 15 minutes.

 

[AlexNL]

Lack of paths? Maybe. My bet is that this is a deliberate move to prevent business travellers from switching to the cheaper Izy fares.

 

[anme]

2h15 is still not bad for a 300km journey (similar distance to London to Manchester). The website seems to say there's a 30 minute check in time, although the FAQ suggests it's actually only 10 minutes.

However, there are only two or three trains per day, and the first arrival is after midday in both directions. That's going to be more of a problem for business travellers. Prices also rise once cheap seats are sold out - let's see how much cheaper it really is when things settle down after launch.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What an almightily terrible service that appears to be, though I should expect that from Thalys who already operate an almightily terrible service to start with and as such clearly had to find a way to make it worse.

Why remove all the advantages of rail by introducing false and pointless low-cost-airline style measures?

But that aside - one interesting aspect of it is that they are specifically offering discounted standing tickets (it appears these are for use in the unused bar cars).

 

[anme]

What an almightily terrible service that appears to be, though I should expect that from Thalys who already operate an almightily terrible service to start with and as such clearly had to find a way to make it worse.

Why remove all the advantages of rail by introducing false and pointless low-cost-airline style measures?

I think you've rather missed the point. This is an additional service. It's slower (but still faster than non-rail alternatives) and less comfortable, but at a lower price. It's like flying with Easyjet or Ryanair - the experience may be horrible, but if the price is right people will use it. Maybe there's a market. Certainly, some friends of mine living in Belgium tell me the reaction there is positive. We will see. Personally, I'm happy to see some innovation and risk taking.

As an aside, I've never understood the hatred one or two people here have for the Thalys. For its core market between Paris and Brussels, it offers a service mostly every 30 minutes covering 300km in 1h22. Isn't this actually *the best* international rail service in the world? Sure, it's not exactly the Orient Express and I'm not a great fan of the interior design of the trains which seems to have been inspired by the Pendolino, but it's nowhere near as bad as those trains, and probably the average journey time is no more (probably less) so I don't see a problem.

But that aside - one interesting aspect of it is that they are specifically offering discounted standing tickets (it appears these are for use in the unused bar cars).

Agreed - this is interesting. I believe with these tickets, you will be allocated a seat at boarding if one is available, but obviously that's not guaranteed. It's scraping the barrel in terms of travel experience, but I've stood for longer journeys (in terms of time) in the UK and paid several times more, so why not?

 

[Groningen]

First removing the slow trains between Brussel and Paris and may be due to the bus bringing back that same train again. In the past it was 2 hours and 50 minutes. Think that the run will be nonstop between the capitols. Running to the Netherlands would be nice, but than it also needs to run under 1500 Volts.

 

[Greenback]

Additional choice is always to be welcomed, but I'm not sure I'd want to use the service myself. Thalys is fine if you can get one of the cheap fares.

 

[Alfie1014]

When I read this I thought it was April 1st not March 1st, but no it does seem really another chase to the bottom by some state railway undertakings and a reaction to the deregulation of coach services in mainland Europe. You do wonder if they were to tackle their traditional expensive cost base instead they wouldn't have to resort to this type of tactict?

I assume that this will be using 'surplus' SNCF TGV Resaux sets that were going to the scrapyard rather than Thayls sets, which there seem to be precious few spare?

Also in an industry that, quite rightly, puts so much emphasis on safety what the consequences for standing passengers would be event of an accident? And yes I know that there are plenty of trains running around with standing passengers at speeds up to 125mph and beyond but explicitly selling tickets for standing on trains that will run at up to 100mph does seem more of a marketing gimmick, after all the E100 generated by the standing tickets are hardly going to make or break the viability of the service?

 

[anme]

When I read this I thought it was April 1st not March 1st, but no it does seem really another chase to the bottom by some state railway undertakings and a reaction to the deregulation of coach services in mainland Europe.

Apologies, but from your post I couldn't understand your argument against this service. As an additional choice, why is it a bad thing? Surely competing against coaches is good?

 

[Groningen]

In the Netherlands the path is questioned. Because of 2 hours and 15 minutes i think it is easy. From Brussel to Paris going through Mons, Aulnoye, Saint-Quentin, Compiegne en Creil.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Also in an industry that, quite rightly, puts so much emphasis on safety what the consequences for standing passengers would be event of an accident? And yes I know that there are plenty of trains running around with standing passengers at speeds up to 125mph and beyond but explicitly selling tickets for standing on trains that will run at up to 100mph does seem more of a marketing gimmick, after all the E100 generated by the standing tickets are hardly going to make or break the viability of the service?

In practice they will mostly get seats, because there is always somebody who doesn't show up (particularly at throwaway prices), and they aren't selling walk-ups to fill those seats another way.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Apologies, but from your post I couldn't understand your argument against this service. As an additional choice, why is it a bad thing? Surely competing against coaches is good?

I don't mind about the service, but applying low-cost-airline principles like baggage to it is just a bit silly, making the service deliberately poor for the sake of it. The slower journey and lack of catering are enough to differentiate it. And why make tickets non-refundable and non-changeable when you can charge a change fee? That's most un-low-cost-airline - all the low-cost airlines allow a change of time/date of journey against a fee on all tickets - having non-changeable tickets is a legacy airline thing.

 

[Alfie1014]

In principle it's a good thing giving more choice, but it's not open access as we understand and im not I'm not sure what element of cross-subsidy there may or may not be from Thalys, just not sure what the business model is? Be interesting to see how it develops though.

 

[CC 72100]

I'm surprised to see the negativity on this thread - the new service is evidently not everyone's cup of thé, but it gives another option for budget conscious travellers, and was perhaps rather predictable following the latest developments in the de-regulation of inter-city coaches in France and SNCF's launch of 'Ouigo' to 'compete' with its TGV services.

I love their website:

https://www.izy.com/fr/decouvrir-loffre

Néanmoins, si une place est disponible (vous avez de la chance !), elle vous sera communiquée très vite par le Train Manager (après le départ).

However, if there is a seat available (you're in luck), the Train Manager will let you know as soon as possible (after departure).

'Le Train Manager'... Really?

 

[stut]

If it's running on classic lines in France, it seems disappointing not to stop it at a couple of places like Longueau (although I suppose the security requirements may scupper this).

 

[daikilo]

I'm surprised to see the negativity on this thread - the new service is evidently not everyone's cup of thé, but it gives another option for budget conscious travellers, and was perhaps rather predictable following the latest developments in the de-regulation of inter-city coaches in France and SNCF's launch of 'Ouigo' to 'compete' with its TGV services.

I love their website:



However, if there is a seat available (you're in luck), the Train Manager will let you know as soon as possible (after departure).

'Le Train Manager'... Really?

I agree that it makes no sense to be negative on a new offering and what is claimed to be new price levels.

However, it raises questions:
1) does Thalys have 2 spare sets which will be repainted and unusable as Thalys substitues (and what do they do before the first service)?
2) Will the prices be low enough to compete with comfortable coaches?
When say Easyjet goes head-to-head with say BA, the flight time is the same, it is the perceived service which differs.

 

[MarkyT]

As an aside, I've never understood the hatred one or two people here have for the Thalys. For its core market between Paris and Brussels, it offers a service mostly every 30 minutes covering 300km in 1h22. Isn't this actually *the best* international rail service in the world?

What Eurostar might also have been perhaps? Thalys prices seem better value than ES usually. I know ES have to pay tunnel charges (per passenger?) so it's not entirely their fault they can't be so flexible on fares, which also probably precludes a cut price operation on the cross channel route like Izy.

 

[daikilo]

What Eurostar might also have been perhaps? Thalys prices seem better value than ES usually. I know ES have to pay tunnel charges (per passenger?) so it's not entirely their fault they can't be so flexible on fares, which also probably precludes a cut price operation on the cross channel route like Izy.

The difference between Thalys and Eurostar business models is that the channel adds time to anything that is not captured. There is no direct motorway from Paris to London as there is from Paris to Brussels.

I actually think that Izy is taking the wrong route, I would go for a specific off-peak pricing policy on Thalys liveried sets, but I guess they have done the research to prove this does not work.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't have an issue with the concept, but I do think making it deliberately rubbish by way of luggage fees and the likes is unnecessary. The longer journey time would really suffice on its own.

 

[jamesontheroad]

Lack of paths? Maybe. My bet is that this is a deliberate move to prevent business travellers from switching to the cheaper Izy fares.

With those timings, and inflexible fares, there is little to no risk of Thalys core business travellers switching.

But that aside - one interesting aspect of it is that they are specifically offering discounted standing tickets (it appears these are for use in the unused bar cars).

Today's Le Parisien here in Paris reports that there will be 10 x €10 standing places per train, and 25 x €15 folding seats ('strapontins') per train.

To my mind, it sounds like they could be accommodated in a converted bistro car, but if a standard TGV or Thalys set has to be substituted then you could accommodate the strapontins in most of the vestibules throughout the train?

If it's running on classic lines in France, it seems disappointing not to stop it at a couple of places like Longueau (although I suppose the security requirements may scupper this).

According to the article quoted above, it will run on the classic lines between Paris and Arras. A spokeswoman explained that this helps lower the operating costs by 30% compared to Thalys.

 

[AlexNL]

I actually think that Izy is taking the wrong route, I would go for a specific off-peak pricing policy on Thalys liveried sets, but I guess they have done the research to prove this does not work.

Thalys wants to be perceived as a luxury, but still affordable, brand. If they would sell seats at Izy prices ("stand in the bar for a tenner, sit on a folding chair for 15 euro's") then they would have a hard time justifying that towards their other clientèle, which pays much more.

A separate brand makes these this much easier.

 

[anme]

With those timings, and inflexible fares, there is little to no risk of Thalys core business travellers switching.

Inflexible fares are no big deal - most companies buy the cheapest available ticket, flexible or not. Overall, it's usually cheaper for them to do this and buy another ticket when plans change, rather than buy much more expensive flexible tickets.

The timing is certainly an issue, though.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Today's Le Parisien here in Paris reports that there will be 10 x €10 standing places per train, and 25 x €15 folding seats ('strapontins') per train.

To my mind, it sounds like they could be accommodated in a converted bistro car, but if a standard TGV or Thalys set has to be substituted then you could accommodate the strapontins in most of the vestibules throughout the train?

The strapontins are in the vestibules. The standing passengers are in the bar car (unused as such) though I think there are likely to be no-shows most days so I expect most of them will get seats. I don't think they are likely to be modifying it other than closing the shutter.

 

[cgcenet]

I would much prefer a traditional train service with fixed walk-up fares, clockface timetable, stopping at main stations en route. It would plug the gap between Jeumont and Erquelinnes.

I do not like the trend for rail operators to pretend to be airlines, especially in the artificial way that Ouigo and Izy does. I think this kind of service is a bad thing for integrated cross-border rail transport.

 

[route101]

Is there currently passport control french borders since france suspended schengen?

 

[anme]

Is there currently passport control french borders since france suspended schengen?

No. And no again because I'm not allowed to post a reply with fewer than five characters.

 

[scotsman]

The standard of English on the website is astounding. "Izy delines all responsibility in the event of loss, or steal or damages.

 

[anme]

The standard of English on the website is astounding. "Izy delines all responsibility in the event of loss, or steal or damages.

You'd almost think the company wasn't based on the UK.

 

[scotsman]

You'd almost think the company wasn't based on the UK.

You'd think an organisation the size of SNCF would have access to someone who could proofread

 

[anme]

You'd think an organisation the size of SNCF would have access to someone who could proofread

The legally binding version will be in one of the local languages - i.e. French and/or Dutch. A few mistakes in a version provided for information doesn't seem like such a big deal. (I will agree that "transport terms and conditions" page is a bit eccentric).