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Izy - Low Cost Rail Paris to Brussels
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You should write a letter then.
Its quite amazing how against this some people on this thread are then again nothings ever good enough for some.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
You think they'd read it?
Proofreading seems to be a dying art, from what I can tell. Incorrect spelling, punctuation and grammar (whatever the language) reflect badly on a company.
I don't like the concept, FWIW, but that is quite separate from an extremely strong dislike of laziness and sloppiness wherever in business it is found.
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
It's so SNCB don't need to pay LGV track access fees to SNCF Reseau.
I'm not sure what the hatred is about on this thread. It's clearly just SNCB's version of Ouigo.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I wouldn't go so far as hatred, I just dislike the concept. I'm also not a fan of Ouigo. The idea of making a train service deliberately worse to be a bit like Ryanair does not resonate well with me.
What's your opinion then of Easyjet and Ryanair?
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Maybe it would be better then if they didn't provide an English version at all?
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I am quite a fan of easyJet - they do what they do very well, and they do it very professionally indeed. I have personally spoken to Carolyn McCall and think she has a lot to do with this success.
The one thing I think they should pack in doing, now they have abandoned the rock-bottom fares competition in favour of being Premier Inn rather than Travelodge[1] (if you see what I mean), is charging for the first checked bag, as this, and this alone, is the cause of the excessive cabin baggage problem they have.
I dislike Ryanair because they seem to be the embodiment of cheap rubbish, despite on the face of it operating a similar model to easyJet. Wizz Air are even worse.
If they are going to provide an English version, it should be correct, and if they can't be bothered to ensure it is correct it indeed should not be provided; they should run it past a native speaker for proofreading. Whenever I have worked on projects involving translations, we have always done that, it has never been deemed acceptable just to whack it into Google Translate or guess.
The problem is greater than just translations, though; companies these days seem to see proof-reading as something that is valid to cut.
[1] I quite like Premier Inn and Accor/Ibis, and like Motel One even more - they are relatively budget hotel chains, but concentrate on doing a good job of what they do without imposing artificial requirements to make things worse. I near enough refuse to stay in a Travelodge now, because I have got thoroughly sick of dirty rooms and broken fixtures - which is a similar level of can't-be-bothered sloppiness.
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Must admit I can't see any significant difference between Easyjet and Ryanair, apart from Easyjet being quite a lot more expensive. Maybe it comes down to whether you prefer yellow or orange. Personally I avoid both as much as possible, but sadly it's not always possible.
Of the three, I prefer Wizzair - genuinely cheap, nicer planes (neither orange or yellow) and friendly staff.
Coming back on topic - if these "budget" airlines are considered OK, why do some people have a problem with this Izy service?
I fear you must get very angry every time you leave the UK.
Personally I am very grateful if a usable English version is provided, and can live with some imperfections.
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I think it's simply that a train service is not an airline, and Izy/Ouigo seem to be about artificially turning a train service into a low-cost airline. Trains and planes serve different purposes: while airlines only serve long-distance markets, trains also serve local communities and long-distance services should be integrated with the local and inter-regional ones.
It is not clear to me that there is any operational justification for check-in (absent a required border check) or baggage restrictions/charges on a train service (unlike an airline). Therefore, I cannot avoid the conclusion that these are contrivances to degrade the service as compared with the standard Thalys and TGV services, and to create a Ryanrail type of experience. I understand you pay more for a better service, but this is supposed to be because a higher class of service naturally costs more to provide. Artificially degrading a service to create a "cheaper" offering seems to miss the point.
As I stated before, I think that rather than play at Ryanrail, SNC{F|B} should be working towards a traditional turn-up-and-go train service on the Paris–Brussels classic route; that is, with fixed fares, open tickets, sit-where-you-like, serving the communities along the route. This should be the slow-but-cheap alternative to Thalys. Presumably they think a traditional train service would abstract revenue from Thalys, while a Ryanrail/Easytrain service would not. This may be true, but it is not how things should be decided on a properly functioning rail network.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Easyjet always just had a bit more respect for the passenger, I feel. It's hard to put a finger on it, but things like not charging you if you forget your boarding pass is a start. Ryanair is getting better, though, now they realised the race to the bottom is running out of extra profit.
Wizz I can't stand - well, I'd have to stand - their older aircraft have such tight legroom I physically can't sit down, and I have found their staff are rather variable in quality. And they have started even more silly charges, such as for reasonably-sized hand luggage.
Because a train is not an aircraft. I have no particular problem with a Megabus style approach (e.g. no luggage fees) because trains are good for luggage - but "making it deliberately worse" is just silly.
I fear you must get very angry every time you leave the UK.
A global publication (a website) is not the same thing as a handwritten note on a door.
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I must admit I do miss the old Bruxelles-Koeln Schnellzug (Thalys avoiding service). Though I guess the ICE provides a partial replacement at least.
"Respect" is not a word I associate with Easyjet!
And I am pretty certain that they will charge you to print your boarding pass. Personally I prefer Ryanair - equally as nasty to travel with as Easyjet, but at least they are cheap.You have to understand that this is about PROFIT. It doesn't cost an airline any more to put your bag in the hold, because they have to provide a hold luggage service anyway. It's not an optional extra for them. They charge extra for hold luggage, and allow only smaller carry on bags than nicer airlines, because their overall profit is higher that way. It's the same for Izy.
It's not a very nice business practice and I don't like it either, but it seems odd to get angry about it for trains but not for airlines.
Yes that's obvious.
I wonder if British people realise how lucky they are they English is the lingua franca in Europe. It's yet another thing that just seems to make them angry.
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
"Respect" is not a word I associate with Easyjet!
No, they don't.
easyJet allow the largest carry-on bag size in the industry - 56x45x25cm and no weight limit. Ryanair allow two bags. Both quite generous.
The hold baggage thing is to discourage hold bags as well as for profit, as they are charged for them by the handlers. Railways don't incur that cost because the bags don't require handling.
I'm not angry about it, I just dislike it.
Nothing to do with that. I just take the view generally that you either do something properly or you don't do it.
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The Easyjet limits are a big problem for business travellers - if you have a hand/laptop bag and small bag for clothes, you have to pay to put one in the hold (with all the added inconvenience of having to queue to check it in, wait to collect it, higher chance of it getting lost, etc). Nasty. Compare with British Airways, who allow a hand/laptop bag as well as a carry on suitcase. You can get away with a good "day pack" sized rucksack as the second bag on BA.
As for Ryanair, the *laptop* I am writing this on is too large to be a second piece of hand luggage (two sides are more than 20cm). Thanks guys!
I don't know if airports charge a fee per bag. If they do, it seems unlikely to be GBP13 (Easyjet's minimum charge), as that's more than they charge per passenger. It's certainly not the GBP35 Ryanair recently charged me (which was more than the headline ticket price)! Why would budget airlines want to discourage hold baggage given that it's so profitable for them? The weird hand baggage restrictions are only there to create more hold luggage.
As for baggage charges for train - well I don't like them either, but if they are necessary on the likes of Izy to compete with budget airlines (i.e. to allow low headline prices but actually charge more) then I guess we have to live with them. The market will decide whether the service is successful or not. If people continue to use the likes of Easyjet etc, who engage in such business practices, then sadly they are probably here to stay.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I'm a very frequent business traveller, and I prefer to put a bag in the hold. It has never got lost or delayed, not once. I really don't understand why people restrict what they can take purely to make an exit from the airport 2 minutes earlier, and walking unencumbered (other than a small laptop rucksack) round the airport is an absolute joy.
The hand baggage restrictions are not "weird", they are to ensure that (so far as possible) everything fits in and gate-checking is minimised.
As for baggage charges for train - well I don't like them either, but if they are necessary on the likes of Izy to compete with budget airlines (i.e. to allow low headline prices but actually charge more) then I guess we have to live with them. The market will decide whether the service is successful or not. If people continue to use the likes of Easyjet etc, who engage in such business practices, then sadly they are probably here to stay.
Izy is competing primarily with coaches, none of which (that I know of) charge for bags.
Each to their own of course.
Presumably though, hold luggage charges must be very bad for you? I find it's no great problem to drag a small wheeled case around an airport for an hour or so (larger bags have to be checked in anyway), and the saving in time and stress on arrival can be significant - it might indeed be two minutes, but it's often much longer especially at large airports. Of course, now so many airlines charge for checked in baggage, that's a further discouragement from checking bags in.I've had hold luggage lost (well, delayed) twice - once was on the way home and was a bit inconvenient as I had to work from home the next day while the bags were delivered. The other time, I had 24 hours of extreme stress and a holiday was almost ruined for several people when my bag went missing. It eventually arrived just in time, with no warning from the airline. (A colleague of mine had to cancel a "once in a lifetime"-type hiking trip when the airline lost - permanently - his bag). My impression from fellow business travellers is that I've been quite lucky, but I don't know the statistics.
Then why are they so different for different airlines? If the airlines' priority was to ensure everything fitted in the cabin, they wouldn't charge for checking bags in!
Airlines have shown that people will pay for luggage, and having a cheap headline fare with nasty additional extras seems to be a successful business model. As I said, I don't like it but it seems to be a good way to maximise profits.
BTW, Izy's hand luggage options look to be similar to a non-budget airline (i.e. full size cabin bag plus proper hand/laptop bag) - so much more generous that either Easyjet or Ryanair.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
It's interesting what people find stressful. I don't find waiting at a baggage carousel stressful, and there will be enough slack planned into my journey (expecting the many delays you get when flying) so I won't be late for any appointment I may have. It may be tedious but it isn't stressful.
As for lost bags, that wouldn't be what I'd call "extreme stress" on a business trip (it might be on a private trip, but that's why good travel insurance is a necessity). I would simply have to purchase, on expenses but for later billing to the airline/travel insurance, items to tide me over until it is found.
As for lost bags, that wouldn't be what I'd call "extreme stress" on a business trip (it might be on a private trip, but that's why good travel insurance is a necessity). I would simply have to purchase, on expenses but for later billing to the airline/travel insurance, items to tide me over until it is found.
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Well, waiting at the carousel isn't in itself stressful, but for example - a regular thing for me is wondering whether my bag will come out in time to make a certain train, or whether I will have to wait 30 minutes for the next one. I would say baggage delivery takes an average of 15 minutes at this airport (the time to wait is actually indicated at the carousel), so causes me to miss a train on every second trip. Half an hour is not the end of the world, in general, but I value the extra time and for me it's worth the small inconvenience of wheeling a bag around the airport (not to mention the cost saving and the avoided lost baggage). It might be the difference between getting a proper meal or something nasty from room service, or seeing one's children that night or not.
But as I said, each to their own and if you prefer to check in a bag that's obviously fine with me.
Good travel insurance is fine but financial compensation doesn't make up for a year's vacation being ruined for several people (which was my situation). It might not be extreme stress on a business trip, but it's certainly an additional nuisance which I personally find worth avoiding when possible. And it's not much fun to go to a smart meeting wearing yesterday's travelling clothes and leftover hotel deodorant, as happened to a colleague of mine recently. :-0
BTW, to bring this back on topic, this is an advantage of travelling by train - you generally travel with your luggage, rather than handing it over to someone else, with or without extra charges.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
And at the same time a disadvantage if your luggage is large, awkward or heavy, when it's easier to hand it over to someone else and forget about it.
Horses for courses.
scotsman
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As long as your luggages is not subject to the steal.
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