adrock1976
Established Member
Unsure if there are any similar old threads regarding this topic.
As it has been publicly known the proposals for the will it, won't it go ahead Electric Spine project, I have thought about converting the whole of the former Southern Region from DC to AC. This assumes that Southampton - Basingstoke (both routes via Eastleigh and Laverstock Junction) - Reading - Oxford - Bletchley - Bedford Midland and Midland Railway metals northwards have already been committed and teams mobilised for that project. I have outlined the details for each of the 3 Southern Region companies below.
London & South Western Railway
1)
Continue the conversion westwards from Southampton Central to Weymouth. I believe that most of this section was third rail electrified in 1988, which tied in with the introduction of the most discussed class of traction on this forum. The third rail equipment could then be used as spares for the Isle of Wight.
2)
Continue the conversion eastbound from both Southampton and Eastleigh to Portsmouth Harbour, also eastbound from Basingstoke to Woking, plus the fast lines to London Waterloo. Furthermore, convert the Portsmouth Direct route via Haslemere, and the Guildford New Line via Cobham & Stoke d'Abernon to AC. Perhaps a new AC only class of trains could be built for these routes, and be given the designation of Class 542?
3)
Convert the line from Pirbright Junction to Alton, plus the spur from Aldershot to Guildford, and Ash Vale to Ascot. These routes to be operated by something similar to the Class 542s (perhaps Class 543s?) that are suited to this medium distance/local routes.
4)
Have a separate team to continue the wires west of Laverstock Junction to Barnstaple, Exmouth, the Yeovil curve, and maybe to Okehampton/Plymouth via Tavistock. The routes beyond Exeter could be done in partnership with the GWR team if wires ever reach that far along GWR metals. The present Waterloo - Exeter to be operated by Class 542s.
The present day Class 450s (I believe there are 127 of them) can be transferred to the local all stations stopping services that operate within and just beyond the London Zones, meaning that the Class 455s (I believe that they were built in 1982) can be retired. This may or may not determine what stock will be used if TfL ever takes over responsibility for the local London services, and what form the Chelsea - Hackney project will look like when it is constructed. The Inner London local services to be converted to AC when the Class 450s are due for retirement.
London, Brighton, and South Coast Railway
1)
I'll start here with what I perceive to be the blindingly obvious: Continue the wires from City Thameslink all the way to Brighton via both the Quarry route and via Redhill. Also the fast lines from London Victoria to East Croydon as well, and the branches to Tattenham Corner and Caterham too. This would be one less thing to go wrong in the core as the train would no longer have to switch between different voltage systems.
2)
Convert Three Bridges - Littlehampton and Bognor Regis via Horsham to AC, and Keymer Junction - Seaford to AC as well. Then Brighton - Eastbourne and Hastings (also reinstating the top side of the triangle north of Hampden Park Sussex), and Brighton - Havant. The Class 313s can be retired, as they are used on the local all stations services east and west of Brighton. New class of trains for the limited stop services to/from Victoria and London Bridge, perhaps Class 552s?
The Class 377s could then be transferred to the local all stations services within and just outside London, so as to retire the Class 455s. Inner London local services to be converted to AC when the Class 377s are due to be retired.
South Eastern Railway/London, Chatham, & Dover Railway
1)
Convert Ashford Ramsgate via Canterbury West, Dover Priory Margate Faversham Swanley, and Swanley Ashford via Maidstone to AC. Also the line to Sheerness-on-Sea to be converted as well. This would allow the Class 395s to run solely on AC.
2)
Convert the fast lines out of Charing Cross and Cannon Street to AC via the SER mainline to Hastings and Tonbridge Dover Priory. Electrify Hastings Ashford (Kent), and convert Ashford Chislehurst Junction too. A new class of trains to be introduced for the limited stop services, perhaps designated Class 562s?
3)
Convert Chislehurst Junction London Victoria fast lines to AC, Tonbridge Strood, Sevenoaks Otford, Shortlands Blackfriars, and East Croydon East Grinstead and Uckfield/Lewes.
4)
Fill in the missing gaps of the Reading, Guildford, & Reigate Railway using AC. Dual voltage Class 377s could be used initially before the DC sections are converted to AC. Perhaps the conversion could be done in conjunction with the Waterloo Reading/Windsor & Eton Riverside project when that is due to be converted?
5)
The final route outside of London to be converted to AC would be the Redhill Tonbridge section, as I believe that was upgraded in the early 1990s for Eurostar. The dismantled DC equipment could then be reused on the Isle of Wight as spares.
On a final point, I have deliberately not made many references to converting local all stations services that operate within or just outside the London fare zones, as it has been mentioned in earlier threads that TfL would like to be responsible for those services. Also, forgive me if my suggestions may not be entirely clear, as it is not often I venture south of the mighty Thames. As the conversion from DC to AC is a complex project, I believe it is better to build on from the proposed Electric Spine project (if it ever gets off the ground). Regarding engineering staff to do the work, I would suggest the simple method of how British Rail proposed in their 1980 AC electrification report for routes north of the Thames by having 4 teams on the ground. 2 routes slit into 2 teams, with one starting at each end and meeting in the middle.
As it has been publicly known the proposals for the will it, won't it go ahead Electric Spine project, I have thought about converting the whole of the former Southern Region from DC to AC. This assumes that Southampton - Basingstoke (both routes via Eastleigh and Laverstock Junction) - Reading - Oxford - Bletchley - Bedford Midland and Midland Railway metals northwards have already been committed and teams mobilised for that project. I have outlined the details for each of the 3 Southern Region companies below.
London & South Western Railway
1)
Continue the conversion westwards from Southampton Central to Weymouth. I believe that most of this section was third rail electrified in 1988, which tied in with the introduction of the most discussed class of traction on this forum. The third rail equipment could then be used as spares for the Isle of Wight.
2)
Continue the conversion eastbound from both Southampton and Eastleigh to Portsmouth Harbour, also eastbound from Basingstoke to Woking, plus the fast lines to London Waterloo. Furthermore, convert the Portsmouth Direct route via Haslemere, and the Guildford New Line via Cobham & Stoke d'Abernon to AC. Perhaps a new AC only class of trains could be built for these routes, and be given the designation of Class 542?
3)
Convert the line from Pirbright Junction to Alton, plus the spur from Aldershot to Guildford, and Ash Vale to Ascot. These routes to be operated by something similar to the Class 542s (perhaps Class 543s?) that are suited to this medium distance/local routes.
4)
Have a separate team to continue the wires west of Laverstock Junction to Barnstaple, Exmouth, the Yeovil curve, and maybe to Okehampton/Plymouth via Tavistock. The routes beyond Exeter could be done in partnership with the GWR team if wires ever reach that far along GWR metals. The present Waterloo - Exeter to be operated by Class 542s.
The present day Class 450s (I believe there are 127 of them) can be transferred to the local all stations stopping services that operate within and just beyond the London Zones, meaning that the Class 455s (I believe that they were built in 1982) can be retired. This may or may not determine what stock will be used if TfL ever takes over responsibility for the local London services, and what form the Chelsea - Hackney project will look like when it is constructed. The Inner London local services to be converted to AC when the Class 450s are due for retirement.
London, Brighton, and South Coast Railway
1)
I'll start here with what I perceive to be the blindingly obvious: Continue the wires from City Thameslink all the way to Brighton via both the Quarry route and via Redhill. Also the fast lines from London Victoria to East Croydon as well, and the branches to Tattenham Corner and Caterham too. This would be one less thing to go wrong in the core as the train would no longer have to switch between different voltage systems.
2)
Convert Three Bridges - Littlehampton and Bognor Regis via Horsham to AC, and Keymer Junction - Seaford to AC as well. Then Brighton - Eastbourne and Hastings (also reinstating the top side of the triangle north of Hampden Park Sussex), and Brighton - Havant. The Class 313s can be retired, as they are used on the local all stations services east and west of Brighton. New class of trains for the limited stop services to/from Victoria and London Bridge, perhaps Class 552s?
The Class 377s could then be transferred to the local all stations services within and just outside London, so as to retire the Class 455s. Inner London local services to be converted to AC when the Class 377s are due to be retired.
South Eastern Railway/London, Chatham, & Dover Railway
1)
Convert Ashford Ramsgate via Canterbury West, Dover Priory Margate Faversham Swanley, and Swanley Ashford via Maidstone to AC. Also the line to Sheerness-on-Sea to be converted as well. This would allow the Class 395s to run solely on AC.
2)
Convert the fast lines out of Charing Cross and Cannon Street to AC via the SER mainline to Hastings and Tonbridge Dover Priory. Electrify Hastings Ashford (Kent), and convert Ashford Chislehurst Junction too. A new class of trains to be introduced for the limited stop services, perhaps designated Class 562s?
3)
Convert Chislehurst Junction London Victoria fast lines to AC, Tonbridge Strood, Sevenoaks Otford, Shortlands Blackfriars, and East Croydon East Grinstead and Uckfield/Lewes.
4)
Fill in the missing gaps of the Reading, Guildford, & Reigate Railway using AC. Dual voltage Class 377s could be used initially before the DC sections are converted to AC. Perhaps the conversion could be done in conjunction with the Waterloo Reading/Windsor & Eton Riverside project when that is due to be converted?
5)
The final route outside of London to be converted to AC would be the Redhill Tonbridge section, as I believe that was upgraded in the early 1990s for Eurostar. The dismantled DC equipment could then be reused on the Isle of Wight as spares.
On a final point, I have deliberately not made many references to converting local all stations services that operate within or just outside the London fare zones, as it has been mentioned in earlier threads that TfL would like to be responsible for those services. Also, forgive me if my suggestions may not be entirely clear, as it is not often I venture south of the mighty Thames. As the conversion from DC to AC is a complex project, I believe it is better to build on from the proposed Electric Spine project (if it ever gets off the ground). Regarding engineering staff to do the work, I would suggest the simple method of how British Rail proposed in their 1980 AC electrification report for routes north of the Thames by having 4 teams on the ground. 2 routes slit into 2 teams, with one starting at each end and meeting in the middle.
