First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[Bristol_Buses]

I think First have realised the X2 was a silly number.

I also fully expect 6/7 in Bristol to become 41/40 (Maybe to coincide if these go back to every 20 mins, maybe a grand relaunch.)

It would make sense for the 6/7 to be renumbered to the 40/41 as it goes down/near the 42/42a/43/44/45 Corridor

 

[freetoview33]

It would make sense for the 6/7 to be renumbered to the 40/41 as it goes down/near the 42/42a/43/44/45 Corridor

Although I can see the 7 becoming the 40 and the 6 the 41.

I was right when the 40 became the 4 and the 41 became the 3.

 

[carlberry]

i think i agree with wazoo on this one - the suffixs are not a good way to show differences on prefixed routes. it does feel like somebody at first has a bet on how many times they can renumber a bus service before the public just lose all hope.

This could be the hidden secret behind First's continued stupidity with changing route numbers. If you change it often enough then nobody will know where anything goes, eveything will be numbered 1 and go to Cribbs Causeway, all those nasty big numbers (and large number of buses) will have gone and eveything will be nice and neat! (A bit like the 'Shoe Shops event horizon for those old ebnough to remember the reference!).
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It would make sense for the 6/7 to be renumbered to the 40/41 as it goes down/near the 42/42a/43/44/45 Corridor

Or 33/34 because it goes near the 35, or 46/47 because it goes near the 48. Or even 6 and 7 because that's what the customers expect from the last time they caught the bus!

 

[freetoview33]

This could be the hidden secret behind First's continued stupidity with changing route numbers. If you change it often enough then nobody will know where anything goes, eveything will be numbered 1 and go to Cribbs Causeway, all those nasty big numbers (and large number of buses) will have gone and eveything will be nice and neat! (A bit like the 'Shoe Shops event horizon for those old ebnough to remember the reference!).
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Or 33/34 because it goes near the 35, or 46/47 because it goes near the 48. Or even 6 and 7 because that's what the customers expect from the last time they caught the bus!

And? The odd renumbering (Like once in 5/10 years) to make things clearer is fine! It's just when it is all the time, in the case of Nailsea to Clevedon.

 

[THarris123]

And? The odd renumbering (Like once in 5/10 years) to make things clearer is fine! It's just when it is all the time, in the case of Nailsea to Clevedon.

No its not fine. Passengers become used to the same number. If you fiddle it around all the time no one will know what bus it is to catch.

Look at X2 - they were thinking on renumbering W1 as X2. That would be chaos - people would be going to Weston who actually wanted to go to Portishead. Same if X6A was X7 - people would be going to Nailsea and Clevedon who wanted Chepstow.

Even if its 5 or 10 years down the road, it doesn't help.

The only real way how renumbering works well is if the whole entire network is completed withdrawn and replugged, as in the case of most of the North Somerset stuff, but as usual First weren't thinking long term with their plans and have screwed up. We are human - we have memories - if someone goes on holiday to Bristol and uses a bus service, they'll usually pick up a leaflet or remember what the number is - if they then come back in a couple of years time and the number has changed and the same number has been used for something else, they may well end up at the other end of the region, so its not best practice to renumber at all.

I personally would have kept W1 and created a W2 and a few more beginning with W - renumbering the 3 and 7 as W3 and W7. That way you create a network solely for services going to Weston - passengers then know anything going to Weston will either be X1 or something beginning with W.

Although it is incredibly stupid numbering and I really hate it, X1A and X6A are actually variations of X1 and X6, so make sense in that respect, but personally I would have either done the above or renumbered it something different.

 

[matt_splat]

the Bath - Norton Changes....

Now my views are as follows

the evening timetable is with too much gaps when wessex ran hourly at night you would get standing loads on B7s.

the last bus will be 22:54 from paulton over a hour earlier than present the current last 178 from bristol will run to radstock but what about the 4 shift works who were on it tonight traveling to bath how will they get to work?only 4 tonight but it can get into double figures on weekends.

171 and 174 are basically going to be running on top of each other which is a little pointless.

earlier busses on a saturday morning are a brilliant idea

 

[THarris123]

the Bath - Norton Changes....

Now my views are as follows

the evening timetable is with too much gaps when wessex ran hourly at night you would get standing loads on B7s.

the last bus will be 22:54 from paulton over a hour earlier than present the current last 178 from bristol will run to radstock but what about the 4 shift works who were on it tonight traveling to bath how will they get to work?only 4 tonight but it can get into double figures on weekends.

171 and 174 are basically going to be running on top of each other which is a little pointless.

earlier busses on a saturday morning are a brilliant idea

Earlier buses on a Saturday morning - I'd say probably loss making

Why didn't they reroute 174 to go along the bypass, then have 171 heading down Odd Down the way 14 goes.

That last bus back to Bath is pretty good for Wells - potentially means there is a 173 out of Bath at past midnight - ooh another loss making idea.

Well as usual they've made a lovely mess of the Norton services.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Earlier buses on a Saturday morning - I'd say probably loss making

Why didn't they reroute 174 to go along the bypass, then have 171 heading down Odd Down the way 14 goes.

That last bus back to Bath is pretty good for Wells - potentially means there is a 173 out of Bath at past midnight - ooh another loss making idea.

Well as usual they've made a lovely mess of the Norton services.

The evening vehicles that run to Bath from Norton Radstock run NIS or in service but virtually empty. Running them down to Wells from Paulton is probably more cost effective not loss making than running to and from Bath.

In fact, at least they're able to cover the work with needing agency drivers

 

[THarris123]

Timetables are up for Bath on Traveline.

Looks great - 13 renumbered 3, 14 renumbered 4, 1 is Bath-Kingsway-Bath, 2 is Bath-Combe Down, 6 is Bath-Fairfield Park, 7 is Bath-Larkhall, 8 is Upper Weston-Bath-Kingsway, 6A is Bath-Fairfield Park-Larkhall-Bath

The 172 looks great - going Bath-Paulton and who'd have thought that Chewton Mendip needed a bus early in the morning to Bath and late back to Wells. Great service. I can see that really long term. - that's sarcasm for anyone who can't tell

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Timetables are up for Bath on Traveline.

Looks great - 13 renumbered 3, 14 renumbered 4, 1 is Bath-Kingsway-Bath, 2 is Bath-Combe Down, 6 is Bath-Fairfield Park, 7 is Bath-Larkhall, 8 is Upper Weston-Bath-Kingsway, 6A is Bath-Fairfield Park-Larkhall-Bath

The 172 looks great - going Bath-Paulton and who'd have thought that Chewton Mendip needed a bus early in the morning to Bath and late back to Wells. Great service. I can see that really long term. - that's sarcasm for anyone who can't tell

Misplaced sarcasm. It's a placement journey or do you think the ones that run empty from Weston Island to MSN are mysteriously profitable?

 

[THarris123]

Misplaced sarcasm. It's a placement journey or do you think the ones that run empty from Weston Island to MSN are mysteriously profitable?

Indeed they placement journeys, but wouldn't it make more sense to run it another route - maybe through South Horrington, then onto A37 up through Ston Easton. It actually gives Ston Easton a bus service, whilst also providing people in Horringtons with a connection to 376.
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Can't really believe what they've done in Bath. Think we'll see quite a few of "why has this bus gone to odd down, when i wanted to get to Bathampton" and things like that.

It would have made more sense to re number them with letters, like Stagecoach do. I.e. could have A instead of 1, etc. That way you're replugging the whole network.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Indeed they placement journeys, but wouldn't it make more sense to run it another route - maybe through South Horrington, then onto A37 up through Ston Easton. It actually gives Ston Easton a bus service, whilst also providing people in Horringtons with a connection to 376.
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Can't really believe what they've done in Bath. Think we'll see quite a few of "why has this bus gone to odd down, when i wanted to get to Bathampton" and things like that.

It would have made more sense to re number them with letters, like Stagecoach do. I.e. could have A instead of 1, etc. That way you're replugging the whole network.

Why run via Ston Easton to give them a service in the very early morning or very late? It's no good to man nor beast so just send them the most direct route.

 

[THarris123]

So Bath town changes:
1 - Bath-Kingsway-Southdown-Bath, every 10 mins, replacing 10
2 - Bath-Combe Down-Bath, every 30 mins, partially replacing 1
3 - Foxhill-Bath-Bathford, every 12 mins, replacing 13
4 - Odd Down-Bath-Weston, every 10 mins, replacing 14
5 - Bath-Whiteway-Bath, every 10 mins, same as 5
6 - Bath-Fairfield Park-Bath, every 30 mins, replacing 6/7
6A - Bath-Fairfield Park-Larkhall-Bath, morning and evening journeys only, replacing 6/7
7 - Bath-Larkhall-Bath, every 30 mins, replacing 6/7
8 - Upper Weston-Bath-Kingsway, every 30 mins, replacing 1 and 4
12 - Bathampton-Bath-Whiteway, every 40 mins, replacing 12 and 4

Do we know if Ensleigh will have a bus service anymore?

Generally the timetables look much more sensible, but the terrible renumbering is going to confuse a lot of people.

It'll be interesting to see what vehicles are used on each of these routes and if they get branding
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Why run via Ston Easton to give them a service in the very early morning or very late? It's no good to man nor beast so just send them the most direct route.

It's still pointless in my view.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

So Bath town changes:
1 - Bath-Kingsway-Southdown-Bath, every 10 mins, replacing 10
2 - Bath-Combe Down-Bath, every 30 mins, partially replacing 1
3 - Foxhill-Bath-Bathford, every 12 mins, replacing 13
4 - Odd Down-Bath-Weston, every 10 mins, replacing 14
5 - Bath-Whiteway-Bath, every 10 mins, same as 5
6 - Bath-Fairfield Park-Bath, every 30 mins, replacing 6/7
6A - Bath-Fairfield Park-Larkhall-Bath, morning and evening journeys only, replacing 6/7
7 - Bath-Larkhall-Bath, every 30 mins, replacing 6/7
8 - Upper Weston-Bath-Kingsway, every 30 mins, replacing 1 and 4
12 - Bathampton-Bath-Whiteway, every 40 mins, replacing 12 and 4

Do we know if Ensleigh will have a bus service anymore?

Generally the timetables look much more sensible, but the terrible renumbering is going to confuse a lot of people.

It'll be interesting to see what vehicles are used on each of these routes and if they get branding
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It's still pointless in my view.

The 2 was going to be replaced by the 31 stopping on Landsdown Hill IIRC.

As for sending the 172 via Ston Easton, you'll have journeys at 0530, 0610 and 0640 into Bath, and then returning at 1655, 1800, 1910, 2255, 2350. Hmmm, attractive. Perhaps a better idea would be send the 2255 173 via Paulton then Chilcompton

 

[carlberry]

It'll be interesting to see what vehicles are used on each of these routes and if they get branding

The branding will have to wait for the next lot of renumbering!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The branding will have to wait for the next lot of renumbering!

Ha ha!

 

[baza585]

Earlier buses on a Saturday morning - I'd say probably loss making

Why didn't they reroute 174 to go along the bypass, then have 171 heading down Odd Down the way 14 goes.

That last bus back to Bath is pretty good for Wells - potentially means there is a 173 out of Bath at past midnight - ooh another loss making idea.

Well as usual they've made a lovely mess of the Norton services.

I have to disagree. They have made a good fist of the new TTs IMHO, with a clockface frequency Bath to Radstock.

I suspect the 171 does not have enough running time to go via the 14 route.

The late journeys are (as TGW has said) positioning journeys which I would normally run via the quickest route, though personally I might have sent the 2255 journey via Chili as a 173, though that does rob Paulton of one service and maybe that's where the passengers are at that time of night.

I suspect the real challenge will be running it reliably all from the Wells end in times of traffic chaos.

I expect B7BLEs TBH; though maybe not all 59 reg.

Bit surprised the 161 isn't being changed to take out some of the later journeys given the 174's existence.

 

[Whiteway215]

So Bath town changes:
1 - Bath-Kingsway-Southdown-Bath, every 10 mins, replacing 10
2 - Bath-Combe Down-Bath, every 30 mins, partially replacing 1
3 - Foxhill-Bath-Bathford, every 12 mins, replacing 13
4 - Odd Down-Bath-Weston, every 10 mins, replacing 14
5 - Bath-Whiteway-Bath, every 10 mins, same as 5
6 - Bath-Fairfield Park-Bath, every 30 mins, replacing 6/7
6A - Bath-Fairfield Park-Larkhall-Bath, morning and evening journeys only, replacing 6/7
7 - Bath-Larkhall-Bath, every 30 mins, replacing 6/7
8 - Upper Weston-Bath-Kingsway, every 30 mins, replacing 1 and 4
12 - Bathampton-Bath-Whiteway, every 40 mins, replacing 12 and 4

Do we know if Ensleigh will have a bus service anymore?

Generally the timetables look much more sensible, but the terrible renumbering is going to confuse a lot of people.

It'll be interesting to see what vehicles are used on each of these routes and if they get branding
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It's still pointless in my view.

I'm intrigued by the announcement of the new 1 (Bath-Kingsway-Southdown-Bath) and wonder what route it will take in the Kingsway area. Will it run deeper into the estate? The existing 10 already serves the edge of the estate around the end part of Englishcombe Lane. Also be very interesting to see what vehicles will be used.

 

[Marc]

I'm intrigued by the announcement of the new 1 (Bath-Kingsway-Southdown-Bath) and wonder what route it will take in the Kingsway area. Will it run deeper into the estate? The existing 10 already serves the edge of the estate around the end part of Englishcombe Lane. Also be very interesting to see what vehicles will be used.

no. 1 is just 10 renumbered.

this office boy renumbering is stupid. some bus stops in bath still have service numbers from a decade ago on them. if there going to do the whole rebranding excersize then do it properly on the roadsides and not just the front of the buses. maybe even leaflet drops to promote it properly. but that would need some stabilitty which first cant manage.

 

[Whiteway215]

no. 1 is just 10 renumbered.

this office boy renumbering is stupid. some bus stops in bath still have service numbers from a decade ago on them. if there going to do the whole rebranding excersize then do it properly on the roadsides and not just the front of the buses. maybe even leaflet drops to promote it properly. but that would need some stabilitty which first cant manage.

Thank you Marc. Much appreciated.

 

[Bristol_Buses]

Service 44/45 Changes in Bristol!

Service 44 -
Monday to Friday and Sunday journeys from the City Centre to Longwell Green, the Butchers Arms at 01:30 and 02:30 will be withdrawn due to low customer demand.
Monday to Friday and Sunday journeys from Longwell Green, the Butchers Arms to the City Centre at 00:57, 01:57 and 02:57 will be withdrawn due to low customer demand.

Customers using the above journeys should note that Service 43 will continue to run 24/7 (With a Long walk!)

The 00:30 Monday to Friday and Sunday and Public Holiday Service will be extended to Cadbury Heath, providing a later last journey. The Saturday service will continue to go to Longwell Green the Butchers Arms.

Late Night Journeys will continue to run on Saturday Night.
There are some other minor changes to timetables especially early morning and late evenings.

Service 45 -
Monday to Sunday journey at 23:56 from Cadbury Heath to Lawrence Hill Depot will be extended to the City Centre

Monday to Sunday there will be an additional and later journey at 23:40 from the City Centre to Cadbury Heath.

There are some other minor changes to timetables especially early morning and late evenings.

 

[vicbury]

So Bath town changes

Ahem, city...

Thanks for posting, very interesting. Where did you get the frequencies from>

 

[freetoview33]

Ahem, city...

Thanks for posting, very interesting. Where did you get the frequencies from>

most tt are on traveline

 

[THarris123]

Ahem, city...

Thanks for posting, very interesting. Where did you get the frequencies from>

Traveline.

And yes it is a city, but I refer to them as town routes and country routes (i.e. 14 a town route,173 country route).

 

[stait.john]

BoS Streetlite WF 55106 returns off lease to ADL/Plaxtons at Anston near Sheffield tomorrow.

 

[vicbury]

Thanks both, I didn't spot the timetable before as the 4 (current 14) is listed under First Kernow.. Doh!

Against the backdrop of lots of impending cuts I was rather nervous about this timetable however I'm pleasantly surprised. The frequency is a consistent every 10 minutes from earlier in the day.

More notably, however, is the late evening timetable. Around 5 years ago, journeys after 9pm were around every 30 minutes with Council support. When the subsidies were withdrawn the service became every 40 minutes commercially.

However it is now being increased to every 20 minutes until just before midnight which is quite something! Possibly a reflection of more Bath Spa students living in Weston and more staff at the RUH commuting by bus?

Bit of a shame that on Sundays the first bus from Weston is still not until after 9am however I can hope for the future.

So altogether I'm rather happy as both my routes (14 (becoming 4) and X39/39) are being improved!

Timetable for the 8 (current 1) also looks decent and it's nice to have the direct route between Weston and Oldfield Park / Kingsway restored. Frequency seems to be improving from hourly on Sundays to every 45 minutes, which is annoying to remember but offers more journeys so on balance is an improvement.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I'm intrigued by the announcement of the new 1 (Bath-Kingsway-Southdown-Bath) and wonder what route it will take in the Kingsway area. Will it run deeper into the estate? The existing 10 already serves the edge of the estate around the end part of Englishcombe Lane. Also be very interesting to see what vehicles will be used.

Bit confused by that list - the 12 is still Wessex

 

[THarris123]

Bit confused by that list - the 12 is still Wessex

Indeed it is - i was listing out any of the town services which are changing, not just First.

42 hasn't come up yet from what I saw.

Park and Ride: 21 will be every 10 mins, 31 and 41 will be every 12 mins.

179 - will be every 2 hours, serving Farrington Gurney.

I think I've got them all now.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

A few obs from walking round Bristol yesterday

42955 on 75
66935 on A1
Dart on 45 and Streetlite on 75

Also, the appearance of newly detopped 32036 at Weymouth has been reported https://flic.kr/p/JHkn7J - looks very smart

 

[THarris123]

Trying to figure out how many vehicles will be leaving WoE in September. I've got the figure as about 70ish.

Drop in PVR overall in WoE - 20
Hengrove - 13
Bath - 9
LH/MH - 3
Wells - increase in 4
Weston - increase in 1 (126)

Then 8 new vehicles for Bath
12 new vehicles for Hengrove
10 E400s from Manchester for Weston (X3/4)
20 new E400s(?) for LH?

It depends on how many LH are going to get really.

So the 70 vehicles that I think will be leaving WoE are:-
At least 20 darts
All W reg deckers (33)
B7Ls (the other 17 to come to 70)

If the LH order is larger (at 45), then I expect to see the remaining B7Ls go and some 51 reg ALX400s. Obviously all the 51 reg ALX400s won't be going, but I'm fairly sure some will.

Anyone else got any ideas?