East Anglia fleet future cascade options

[MidlandMainlie]

Now the new East Anglia franchise has announce it is going to replace its entire fleet with 660 new bombardier units and 383 new bi-modes from Staddler that mean the current East Anglia fleet is available for cascade to other operators/future franchises. Grater Anglia currently has*

• 90 x15
• Mk3 x130
• 153 x5
• 156 x9
• 170/2 x12
• 317/5 x 15
• 317/6 x24
• 317/7 x1
• 317/8 x6
• 321 x94
• 360/1 x21
• 379 x30

I imagine the Mk3 carriages will go for scrap/ be used for spares. What about the rest of the fleet?

*Excludes short term hire of loco hauled Mk2 stock.

 

[387star]

379 for Gatwick express? Or mml?

When is mml to be electrified btw have hst replacements been ordered ?

 

[northwichcat]

I imagine the Mk3 carriages will go for scrap/ be used for spares. What about the rest of the fleet?

317s for scrap as well given how many newer better EMUs will be available.

I guess the 9 x 156s and the 5 x 156s Scotrail are releasing which Northern aren't taking on will go to EMT to help replace the 153s.

153s might be scrapped by the end of 2019.

I'd guess the 4 x 2 car 170s will go to Chiltern and the LO and Chiltern 172s will go to LM.

Northern need a further 18 x 2 car 170s (or equivalent) by 2022. Looking at the numbers Anglia + XC combined have 18 x 3 car 170s and LM have 17 x 2 car 170s so maybe there's a way LM could have a 170 fleet entirely of 3 car sets and Northern could get 18 x 2 car 170s.

 

[Starmill]

Aren't 40 of those 321s already committed to 'as new' refurbishment?

 

[hick]

317s for scrap as well given how many newer better EMUs will be available.

I guess the 9 x 156s and the 5 x 156s Scotrail are releasing which Northern aren't taking on will go to EMT to help replace the 153s.

153s might be scrapped by the end of 2019.

I'd guess the 4 x 2 car 170s will go to Chiltern and the LO and Chiltern 172s will go to LM.

Northern need a further 18 x 2 car 170s (or equivalent) by 2022. Looking at the numbers Anglia + XC combined have 18 x 3 car 170s and LM have 17 x 2 car 170s so maybe there's a way LM could have a 170 fleet entirely of 3 car sets and Northern could get 18 x 2 car 170s.

Chiltern will want more stock not less, it seems stange to move the LOROL/Chiltern 172s to LM where they won't be compatible with 172s there.

 

[northwichcat]

Chiltern will want more stock not less, it seems stange to move the LOROL/Chiltern 172s to LM where they won't be compatible with 172s there.

4 x 170s replacing 4 x 172s is not less. What do you mean by 172s not being compatible with 172s - do you mean not having corridor connections?

 

[class387]

Now the new East Anglia franchise has announce it is going to replace its entire fleet with 660 new bombardier units and 383 new bi-modes from Staddler that mean the current East Anglia fleet is available for cascade to other operators/future franchises. Grater Anglia currently has*

• 90 x15
• Mk3 x130
• 153 x5
• 156 x9
• 170/2 x12
• 317/5 x 15
• 317/6 x24
• 317/7 x1
• 317/8 x6
• 321 x94
• 360/1 x21
• 379 x30

I imagine the Mk3 carriages will go for scrap/ be used for spares. What about the rest of the fleet?

*Excludes short term hire of loco hauled Mk2 stock.

Where was this announcement? I haven't heard anything about this. Very interesting, especially the Stadler trains.

 

[hick]

4 x 170s replacing 4 x 172s is not less. What do you mean by 172s not being compatible with 172s - do you mean not having corridor connections?

The Chiltern and LOROL 172s are compatible with each other and the rest of the Chiltern fleet, but not the LM fleet due to coupler pins.

 

[JohnElliott]

Where was this announcement? I haven't heard anything about this. Very interesting, especially the Stadler trains.

Here's the BBC article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-37031833

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Chiltern and LOROL 172s are compatible with each other and the rest of the Chiltern fleet, but not the LM fleet due to coupler pins.

Not a difficult modification.

As for other stuff, I'd take a punt on Mk3s getting scrapped if Mk4s will be available from the ECML instead (no need for bog and door mods), and Desiros to LM to remove the 319s and allow more 12-car services.

On the topic of another thread, might the Sprinters so released be the death knell of a certain rolling stock conversion?

 

[J-2739]

Where was this announcement? I haven't heard anything about this. Very interesting, especially the Stadler trains.

Here:http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/passenger/single-view/view/stadler-and-bombardier-to-supply-trains-for-abellio-east-anglia-franchise.html

 

[class387]

Yep. Found it. Very excited that Flirts are coming to the UK, always has been a huge fan of them.

 

[hick]

Not a difficult modification.

As for other stuff, I'd take a punt on Mk3s getting scrapped if Mk4s will be available from the ECML instead (no need for bog and door mods), and Desiros to LM to remove the 319s and allow more 12-car services.

But what's the value in swapping 4 x 2 cars for 4 x 2 cars and paying to modify/relivery them in the process? If Chiltern wanted to they could change the interiors of their own 172s to be 168s.

 

[J-2739]

Yep. Found it. Very excited that Flirts are coming to the UK, always has been a huge fan of them.

The FLIRTS for the UK probably wouldn't be the same as their Continental cousins so they abide by the loading gauge.

 

[Haydn1971]

I really can't see the 317 fleet being cascaded, but that does leave a lot of 321s to find homes for ! The smaller 360 fleet will be easy to relocate, as will the Electrostars....

Lots of Mk3s going to Rotherham again... What condition are the 90s in ? Could they be made to work with the redundant Mk4s on for example, MML once wired ?

As for the DMUs, there are so few as to not worry about where they go, plenty of demand I'd say.

 

[CosherB]

As for other stuff, I'd take a punt on Mk3s getting scrapped if Mk4s will be available from the ECML instead

I daresay that charter operators like Riviera would be interested in the recently refurbished Mk3s, as they would be a 'night and day' improvement on existing 'coffin' Mk2 stock.

 

[BuryBlue]

I really can't see the 317 fleet being cascaded, but that does leave a lot of 321s to find homes for ! The smaller 360 fleet will be easy to relocate, as will the Electrostars....

Lots of Mk3s going to Rotherham again... What condition are the 90s in ? Could they be made to work with the redundant Mk4s on for example, MML once wired ?

As for the DMUs, there are so few as to not worry about where they go, plenty of demand I'd say.

They might be cascaded elsewhere (the 90s). If IC225 power cars are becoming available coupled with the Mk4 stock then why not use them instead? Especially considering I believe they want to raise the GEML line speed.

The 360 fleet could be joined up with the other 360 microfleet (GWR has them?) and joined up to be cascaded as a whole.

RE the 153's. For other operators, they could be joined together in pairs of 2 to create some franken-156's for short term operation to supplement other 153's (there would only be 2 1/2 in this case, but with EMT's fleet they coud combine to create a usable pool, for example)

Still no later Ipswich-Cambridge service

 

[swt_passenger]

The 360 fleet could be joined up with the other 360 microfleet (GWR has them?) and joined up to be cascaded as a whole.

The other 360 fleet is not GWR's, it is owned by Heathrow Airport.

 

[CosherB]

What condition are the 90s in ? Could they be made to work with the redundant Mk4s on for example, MML once wired ?

I'm sure the die is cast for future expectations. Reusing Mk4s on front line services might now be a hard sell!

90s are limited to 110mph, so no use on MML. And don't suggest upgrading them to 125mph...

I'd say, however, the Porterbrook 90s are in fine fettle, especially after their recent exam at Crewe and repaint at DBC. Would Freightliner be interested in them to replace their 86/6s? Would GBRf be interested in a few to supplement their 92s? I've no idea! The thought that they'll be plying their future trade on Inter City passenger work is unlikely.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The other 360 fleet is not GWR's, it is owned by Heathrow Airport.

Whoever owns it it'll soon be superfluous once Crossrail replaces Heathrow Connect.

 

[D365]

Whoever owns it it'll soon be superfluous once Crossrail replaces Heathrow Connect.

But I doubt that Heathrow will be sending them for scrap just yet.

 

[ainsworth74]

Just a reminder that this thread is for discussing the potential cascade options thanks to the newly annouced East Anglia franchise. For discussion of the franchise itself please use this thread.

 

[swt_passenger]

Whoever owns it it'll soon be superfluous once Crossrail replaces Heathrow Connect.

As many or even most of us already know.

But irrelevant to the point I was replying to which was the earlier poster's minor error of assuming the Connect 360s were GWR's.

 

[BuryBlue]

As many or even most of us already know.

But irrelevant to the point I was replying to which was the earlier poster's minor error of assuming the Connect 360s were GWR's.

Thank you for correcting me by the way!

 

[swt_passenger]

The general consensus in the forums up until now was that (effectively by default) the 5 Connect units would be almost guaranteed to move to GA to be with their bigger fleet.

I suppose we'll have to forget that now and look for somewhere else... Can LM use them despite the lack of gangways?

 

[BuryBlue]

The general consensus in the forums up until now was that (effectively by default) the 5 Connect units would be almost guaranteed to move to GA to be with their bigger fleet.

I suppose we'll have to forget that now and look for somewhere else... Can LM use them despite the lack of gangways?

Could they replace LO's (ironically ex-GA) elderly stock? That wouldn't require the entire fleet, however.

 

[ScotGG]

What happens to all the 321s. Scrap at only 30 years old?

If so then interesting to me, as a Southeastern passenger, to see what happens with Networkers when the Southeastern franchise is announced. Only 3-5 years older - will they too be scrapped when SE franchise begins in a couple of years? They aren't compatible with a 12-car Metro network on the whole due to no SDO, but it seems a waste if so.

 

[Domh245]

Could they replace LO's (ironically ex-GA) elderly stock? That wouldn't require the entire fleet, however.

LO's older fleet is already being replaced by 710s, which will be in place before anything is released from GA I'd have thought.

 

[BuryBlue]

What happens to all the 321s. Scrap at only 30 years old?

If so then interesting to me, as a Southeastern passenger, to see what happens with Networkers when the Southeastern franchise is announced. Only 3-5 years older - will they too be scrapped when SE franchise begins in a couple of years? They aren't compatible with a 12-car Metro network on the whole due to no SDO, but it seems a waste if so.

The 365's are only 20 years old but now they're going from GN I can't see a home for them either.

Or maybe up North? I'm sure nobody will miss the 319s too much if they were to go. The third rail 465's are looking at an ever shrinking market, though...

 

[Blindtraveler]

I would think DRS will snap up a good few MK3s to replace older stock on the veriety of passenger work they are doing plus charters etc

rather surprised about 379s being replaced