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Class 442s - Now at the end of the road and to be withdrawn permanently

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acmw421

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I won't disagree there mate ;).
One cab car unit would suffice as a physical display piece. Although the guts and stuff from the motor car would be okay to put on display stands too. However if a complete unit was to be preserved. Then one of the heritage railways would be a better bet as then they could use it as coaching stock with most air-braked locomotives :).

Although one of the troubles with preserving mark 1 EMU stock has been that many railways have been unable or unwilling to use such stock (even as hauled vehicles) hence why it often only emerges for special events or just rots in a siding. See for example one of the Lymington units (the green one I think), which is perpetually for sale for this very reason.

While I would love to see a complete 442 preserved, the huge amount of space it would take up, combined with the fact that (unlike those mark 1 EMU vehicles) it doesn't look like heritage stock, and the fact most heritage EMU groups are short of cash and/or volunteers (see eg the Southern Electric Group, which might have been the prime candidate to launch a bid but is struggling to maintain 4Cor 3142) make it unlikely. Perhaps the only exception would be if a railway wanted to acquire 'modern' stock for filming purposes - but ironically enough that role seems often (eg Ecclesbourne Valley) to be occupied by the old mark 2 GatEx stock, which Porterbrook sold at very low prices.
 
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SpacePhoenix

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Could they be used for charters or railtours as locohauled stock? Could he cabs be altered so that the loco need only be at one end with the cab serving as a DVT with 67s being used for motive power? Loco hauled rolling stock is probably the only thing that might save a couple for preservation otherwise all 24 will probably be heading to the scrapyard within a year
 

MrB

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Could they be used for charters or railtours as locohauled stock? Could he cabs be altered so that the loco need only be at one end with the cab serving as a DVT with 67s being used for motive power? Loco hauled rolling stock is probably the only thing that might save a couple for preservation otherwise all 24 will probably be heading to the scrapyard within a year

Not loco hauling them again..... :roll:
 

theblackwatch

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I'd have thought it more likely that the NRM might take one of the driving trailers, rather than the whole unit. I think space - and operational potential - could well preculde them keeping a full set. Unless, of course, the heritage of the traction equipment makes a case for retention of more than just one vehicle.

A 442 driving car is already on the designation list for the National Collection.
 

Mordac

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You sure? I've got a pic of 2401 at Clapham on 9th Aug, and at Vic on 11th, very much in service, and surprisingly clean!. And I've got film of all the hauls past me since then, en route to Eastleigh / Ely.

I was going off wikipedia, but I believe you over them!

Actually, after posting this, I read on p. 29 of Rail 807 that 2401 is stored. For what that's worth.
 

SpacePhoenix

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Not loco hauling them again..... :roll:

As normal service stock it's Game Over for them but they could still be taken on as charter stock, it depends what ultimately happens with potentially all charter stock needing retention tanks
 

D365

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Not loco hauling them again..... :roll:

Indeed. If it's not financially viable for a TOC, how to heck would the numbers add up for a heritage operator?


A 442 driving car is already on the designation list for the National Collection.

Forgive my ignorance, but aside from it being an example of Southern region 'recycling', what's special about the class?


As normal service stock it's Game Over for them but they could still be taken on as charter stock, it depends what ultimately happens with potentially all charter stock needing retention tanks

You think that rewiring the 442 trailers could be cheaper than retention tanks?!
 
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Mordac

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Indeed. If it's not financially viable for a TOC, how to heck would the numbers add up for a heritage operator?




Forgive my ignorance, but aside from it being an example of Southern region 'recycling', what's special about the class?
As mentioned a few posts above, 442401 has the world speed record for 3rd rail stock.
 

SpacePhoenix

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Indeed. If it's not financially viable for a TOC, how to heck would the numbers add up for a heritage operator?

It doesn't necessarily have to be a heritage operator, DBC are already involved in the charter market, loco hauled 442s would give them the option to expand the rail tours that they get involved in and maybe run a few tours themselves
 

D365

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It doesn't necessarily have to be a heritage operator, DBC are already involved in the charter market, loco hauled 442s would give them the option to expand the rail tours that they get involved in and maybe run a few tours themselves

Then surely they would buy up the Mk3 coaching stock which is soon coming off-lease from Greater Anglia!
 

NSEFAN

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DAB_Move said:
Forgive my ignorance, but aside from it being an example of Southern region 'recycling', what's special about the class?
Possibly as the last Intercity 3rd rail EMU? All others since then have been suburban / commuter types (even the 444s aren't much by comparison, with no compartments and no regular usage of the buffet counter).
 

theblackwatch

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Can anyone confirm which sets are still in use? I have 442401/02/05/06/08/10/11/13/14/17/19/21.
 

Mordac

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Can anyone confirm which sets are still in use? I have 442401/02/05/06/08/10/11/13/14/17/19/21.

Page 29 of Rail 807 says 442401/403/404/407/409/412/415/416/418/420-24 are in storage, and the other 10 are in service. How accurate this is I don't know. Paging Class 377/5?
 

theblackwatch

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Page 29 of Rail 807 says 442401/403/404/407/409/412/415/416/418/420-24 are in storage, and the other 10 are in service. How accurate this is I don't know. Paging Class 377/5?

I'm pretty sure 442401 was in use last week, so I'm not convinced of its accuracy!
 

Mikey C

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Possibly as the last Intercity 3rd rail EMU? All others since then have been suburban / commuter types (even the 444s aren't much by comparison, with no compartments and no regular usage of the buffet counter).

Hardly an important criteria though, most people (especially in Standard) would consider the 444s as Intercity standard - I'd rather go in one that a Virgin Pendolino!

Besides, the Eurostar 373s are/were also (in a way) 3rd rail EMUs :D
 

spark001uk

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I'm pretty sure 442401 was in use last week, so I'm not convinced of its accuracy!

2401 was definitely in use on 11th Aug cos I was sat on the platform at Victoria looking at it, and it was (relatively for that class) rather clean. I believe it was attached to 4 as well. {just checked my photos, and yes it was}.
Also I think I've pretty much kept a good eye on the moves of these units for the past month or so (I live on the route), and so far I've seen 3, 7 and 20 going to Eastleigh, also 7 and 20 going from there to Papworth, minus the pickup gear.
Having said that there could have been some previous to my watching out for them though.
 
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theblackwatch

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2401 was definitely in use on 11th Aug cos I was sat on the platform at Victoria looking at it, and it was (relatively for that class) rather clean. I believe it was attached to 4 as well. {just checked my photos, and yes it was}.
Also I think I've pretty much kept a good eye on the moves of these units for the past month or so (I live on the route), and so far I've seen 3, 7 and 20 going to Eastleigh, also 7 and 20 going from there to Papworth, minus the pickup gear.
Having said that there could have been some previous to my watching out for them though.

Thanks, I had 442404 as being stored at Three Bridges with 442409/12/16. Maybe it's returned to service?
 

Ash Bridge

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Hardly an important criteria though, most people (especially in Standard) would consider the 444s as Intercity standard - I'd rather go in one that a Virgin Pendolino!

Last week I traveled from Waterloo to Bournemouth and this being my first run on a 444 I was really looking forward to sampling one, but sadly in lots of ways I was very disappointed considering these are express units.

I was in first class and surprised to find there was absolutely no luggage space apart from one spot behind two single seats (no use for a medium/large suitcase) and the overhead racks, also I couldn't find any rubbish bins, I mean even pacers have those! And the ride quality was very poor with lots of rattles from the interior fitments, it really gave the impression of poor build quality, and no comparison to the 185s which Iam more familiar with, the thing is the last time I did this same journey it was on a NSE 442 in original form when they were about 5/6 years old and I recall being blown away by the ride quality, quietness and general ambience of these units, they were definitely up to Intercity standard, the only bad point being the awkward power exterior doors, sorry but to me the 444s seem a step back or two from a passenger point of view compared to 442s in their original form.
 

bramling

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Last week I traveled from Waterloo to Bournemouth and this being my first run on a 444 I was really looking forward to sampling one, but sadly in lots of ways I was very disappointed considering these are express units.

I was in first class and surprised to find there was absolutely no luggage space apart from one spot behind two single seats (no use for a medium/large suitcase) and the overhead racks, also I couldn't find any rubbish bins, I mean even pacers have those! And the ride quality was very poor with lots of rattles from the interior fitments, it really gave the impression of poor build quality, and no comparison to the 185s which Iam more familiar with, the thing is the last time I did this same journey it was on a NSE 442 in original form when they were about 5/6 years old and I recall being blown away by the ride quality, quietness and general ambience of these units, they were definitely up to Intercity standard, the only bad point being the awkward power exterior doors, sorry but to me the 444s seem a step back or two from a passenger point of view compared to 442s in their original form.

Must admit I'm not keen on the class 444 either.

The interior is nothing to write home about all, and unlike Electrostars one has to choose one's seat carefully to get a decent view out of the window. They're a pain when travelling with luggage, especially if the train is busy. Also they annoyingly often turn up as 5-car trains where otherwise the service might have been 2x450.

Generally speaking I'd prefer a class 450, even all the way to Weymouth. But, having said that, much would depend on loading. I'd prefer a lightly loaded class 450 over a class 444, but if the train was crowded then a class 444 may well be preferable!

All in all, an Electrostar would avoid all these niggles, especially the early variants with the decent Connex interiors and comfortable seats.
 

Ash Bridge

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Glad to learn I'm not alone then, tbh I found the seating quite comfortable but the 1st class interior seemed very dated and somehow reminded me of a 1950/60s airliner interior with the curtains and fabric on the seatbacks, but that poor ride quality is what really struck me.
 

Class377/5

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Page 29 of Rail 807 says 442401/403/404/407/409/412/415/416/418/420-24 are in storage, and the other 10 are in service. How accurate this is I don't know. Paging Class 377/5?

I'll try and get a list of what we have at the present although next month its all change.
 

Class172

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Sorry if this has been asked many times already but when are the last sets likely to be withdrawn; would there be any left in service come the end of October?
 

kevinwaltets

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Last week I traveled from Waterloo to Bournemouth and this being my first run on a 444 I was really looking forward to sampling one, but sadly in lots of ways I was very disappointed considering these are express units.



I was in first class and surprised to find there was absolutely no luggage space apart from one spot behind two single seats (no use for a medium/large suitcase) and the overhead racks, also I couldn't find any rubbish bins, I mean even pacers have those! And the ride quality was very poor with lots of rattles from the interior fitments, it really gave the impression of poor build quality, and no comparison to the 185s which Iam more familiar with, the thing is the last time I did this same journey it was on a NSE 442 in original form when they were about 5/6 years old and I recall being blown away by the ride quality, quietness and general ambience of these units, they were definitely up to Intercity standard, the only bad point being the awkward power exterior doors, sorry but to me the 444s seem a step back or two from a passenger point of view compared to 442s in their original form.



444's are and will always be a poor mans version of a 442. When they were on the SWML to Weymouth they were the best trains in service in Britain.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

glbotu

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Mild diversion:

Were it given the opportunity, could a 444 break the speed record as held by a 442? They certainly accelerate better, so would probably have more distance to try, but I don't know much more than that. Does anyone know?
 

Ash Bridge

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Mild diversion:

Were it given the opportunity, could a 444 break the speed record as held by a 442? They certainly accelerate better, so would probably have more distance to try, but I don't know much more than that. Does anyone know?

If it did the mind boggles at what the ride quality would be like at such a speed, then add in the former southern region track quality :o
 

D365

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Surely if an attempt was going to be made, a Class 450 would be better-suited: more powered bogies across a shorter length.

I seem to remember that one of the reasons for the 442 speed record taking place was the powerful traction equipment recovered from the 4-REPs.
 

zn1

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one suspects a 444 or 450 could easily take the record.

but i think it will be a 395 Jav that would easily take 442 speed record
 
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