GWR Loco Hauled Stock

[RobShipway]

Are 73's already wired to be able to work with 442's in push/pull mode

Class 73's have been used in the past to haul class 442's, but that was not at speeds more than 70mph I believe, so if a greater speed is required then there would need to be modifications either to some class 73's or to the class 442's so that they can work together at speed.

 

[Townsend Hook]

Are 73's already wired to be able to work with 442's in push/pull mode

I believe the 27-way jumper cables on a 442 are wired differently to the standard SR EMU spec, which the 73s are wired to, so no chance of connecting them electrically.

 

[Domh245]

I believe the 27-way jumper cables on a 442 are wired differently to the standard SR EMU spec, which the 73s are wired to, so no chance of connecting them electrically.

The 442s (E010) are wired differently, but the 73s (E003/4) appear to have a different setup to them (some pins used for different purposes). The Original EMUS (E009) are again wired slightly differently. http://www.rssb.co.uk/rgs/reldocs/sd001 iss 2.pdf

 

[Brian Aylott]

There are some at Long Marston that I think are still owned by Porterbrook, together with a small Mk3 fleet with DB?

No - early September
Porterbrook NIL
Arriva (DB) 28
Brian

 

[CosherB]

No - early September
Porterbrook NIL
Arriva (DB) 28
Brian

Plenty available then (ignoring the RFMs) for a DBC bid for the LHCS t-a-t with 67s

 

[Townsend Hook]

Plenty available then (ignoring the RFMs) for a DBC bid for the LHCS t-a-t with 67s

Assuming that these Mk3s are serviceable, or can be made serviceable without too much work.

 

[CosherB]

Assuming that these Mk3s are serviceable, or can be made serviceable without too much work.

Hence the winkl! I very much doubt that DB / DRS / Uncle Tom Cobleigh that has stored Mk3 carrriages will be able to get any of them onto the mainline without spending a decent amount of money on them.

Will Riviera have more spare Mk2s available in time once their AGA LHCS work ends?

 

[1179_Clee2]

That's a lot of ifs, buts and maybes!

Lets look at a lot of ifs, buts and maybes as there may be ? or may be not a solution ?
Pretendolino to GWR not TPX
GWR release DMU's as per RAIL article ( best guess 3 class 150's and 3 class 153's ) in reality 3 3car trains to Northern.
Northern stop using the 3 sub leased 3 car Class 185's and they are returned to TPX.
TPX don't need the Pretendolino IN SERVICE as it has 185's.

The above fits BUT there are a couple of problems.

Firstly WHOEVER uses the Pretendolino as it was designed to run as 1 set, it only ever had 1 brake van AND 1 wheelchair coach with toilet (TSO d)
I think ALL trains need to have a brake van AND a wheelchair coach with toilet in order to run ???
It may be possible to sort the former but the later will be more difficult IF the train is split into shorter lengths.

Secondly TPX need a train for 68's to pull in order to train drivers, as it is NEVER going to be used in service what would it need. Use charter stock mid week ? Stored coaches that have their running gear checked over or overhauled ? it does not mater what colour the coach is painted or what state the interia is in ALL it needs is a train.

 

[Townsend Hook]

Firstly WHOEVER uses the Pretendolino as it was designed to run as 1 set, it only ever had 1 brake van AND 1 wheelchair coach with toilet (TSO d)
I think ALL trains need to have a brake van AND a wheelchair coach with toilet in order to run ???
It may be possible to sort the former but the later will be more difficult IF the train is split into shorter lengths.

Presumably the Mk2 LHCS sets operating for Northern, GA and Scotrail do not have disabled toilets? From that it would follow that lack of a disabled toilet is not a dealbreaker.

 

[Darandio]

Presumably the Mk2 LHCS sets operating for Northern, GA and Scotrail do not have disabled toilets? From that it would follow that lack of a disabled toilet is not a dealbreaker.

Not for another 3 years or so anyway.

 

[43096]

There are some at Long Marston that I think are still owned by Porterbrook

You think wrong, then!

 

[sd0733]

Presumably the Mk2 LHCS sets operating for Northern, GA and Scotrail do not have disabled toilets? From that it would follow that lack of a disabled toilet is not a dealbreaker.

At least one Scotrail set does have a disabled toilet. Was in coach 9488 and it's got a disabled toilet and wheelchair spaces.

 

[Townsend Hook]

At least one Scotrail set does have a disabled toilet. Was in coach 9488 and it's got a disabled toilet and wheelchair spaces.

Good to see they're making an effort then .

 

[The Ham]

[

The above fits BUT there are a couple of problems.

Firstly WHOEVER uses the Pretendolino as it was designed to run as 1 set, it only ever had 1 brake van AND 1 wheelchair coach with toilet (TSO d)
I think ALL trains need to have a brake van AND a wheelchair coach with toilet in order to run ???
It may be possible to sort the former but the later will be more difficult IF the train is split into shorter lengths.

Secondly TPX need a train for 68's to pull in order to train drivers, as it is NEVER going to be used in service what would it need. Use charter stock mid week ? Stored coaches that have their running gear checked over or overhauled ? it does not mater what colour the coach is painted or what state the interia is in ALL it needs is a train.

There is no requirement to have any toilets, but if there are any there has to be at least one toilet suitable for wheel chair use.

Therefore the cheap option to take out a normal loo and use that space for folks down seats/wheel chair space and lock out if use all the other loos on the train.

 

[CosherB]

Lets look at a lot of ifs, buts and maybes as there may be ? or may be not a solution ?
Pretendolino to GWR not TPX
GWR release DMU's as per RAIL article ( best guess 3 class 150's and 3 class 153's ) in reality 3 3car trains to Northern.
Northern stop using the 3 sub leased 3 car Class 185's and they are returned to TPX.
TPX don't need the Pretendolino IN SERVICE as it has 185's.

The above fits BUT there are a couple of problems.

Firstly WHOEVER uses the Pretendolino as it was designed to run as 1 set, it only ever had 1 brake van AND 1 wheelchair coach with toilet (TSO d)
I think ALL trains need to have a brake van AND a wheelchair coach with toilet in order to run ???
It may be possible to sort the former but the later will be more difficult IF the train is split into shorter lengths.

Secondly TPX need a train for 68's to pull in order to train drivers, as it is NEVER going to be used in service what would it need. Use charter stock mid week ? Stored coaches that have their running gear checked over or overhauled ? it does not mater what colour the coach is painted or what state the interia is in ALL it needs is a train.

A well thought analysis, however, it has been reported that the Pretendolino carriages are going to TPE so it's a moot point.

And I'm not sure you can say with certainty that the two Pretenolino-origin rakes will never be used in service!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

You think wrong, then!

Thank you for reiterating that point, already explained in more detail by Brian Aylott. Hope you feel better for that!

 

[Brian Aylott]

At least one Scotrail set does have a disabled toilet. Was in coach 9488 and it's got a disabled toilet and wheelchair spaces.

This and others have had disabled toilets for 8 years+ and are not the Universal toilets required for 2020
Brian

 

[sd0733]

This and others have had disabled toilets for 8 years+ and are not the Universal toilets required for 2020
Brian

Ah right fair enough, never seen one on a mark 2 before. Do vaguely remember that one was one of the great western night Riviera coaches years ago so presume it was done back then .

 

[61653 HTAFC]

There's no requirement for accessible toilets YET. If there was, there'd be an awful lot of cancellations on Northern and ATW! Stock must be accessible as of 01/01/2020. So a LHCS set could be introduced without, though it might not be a great PR move!

 

[AnthonyRail]

would love a 50 on a timetabled train

 

[superalbs]

would love a 50 on a timetabled train

Didn't Colas buy three of them recently?

 

[alexl92]

Didn't Colas buy three of them recently?

Not sure but I think Boden has 4 that are mainline-certified... No idea whether they are a possibility.

 

[Townsend Hook]

Colas never bought any of Boden's 50s, despite rumours, but apparently Loram UK (formally RVEL) are interested in them.

 

[richw]

Heard today on a Facebook group DB schenker have got the contract, with staff training due to start in November for GWR guards. Facebook post was from a Exeter based guard. The same post says it will be Cardiff to Paignton for training runs.

 

[Townsend Hook]

Heard today on a Facebook group DB schenker have got the contract, with staff training due to start in November for GWR guards. Facebook post was from a Exeter based guard. The same post says it will be Cardiff to Paignton for training runs.

That's DB Cargo nowadays. Presumably this means Riviera Mk2s?

 

[fgwrich]

That's DB Cargo nowadays. Presumably this means Riviera Mk2s?

Either those (Riviera is still part of the Riviera/DBC/Pathfinder Tours Alliance) or the fairly ropey rake of Mk2s DBC owns in house - the not so BR Maroon Mk2s which DBC operated on the Fife Circle before Abellio took over and DRS took up the Fife Circle contracts.

The same rake which had to temporarily be substituted by a rake of ex Virgin Riviera Mk2s as TS told DB to tidy them up and address the faults or get off the Circle.

Either way, Mk2s are likely then. I wonder if DBC winning this contract explains why the Management train has been in the South West in the past week. Unfortunately, they failed to miss the also DBC operated Whatley to Exeter Riverside stone passing on the same day operating with something bright and orange - another recent DBC contract which has had to be sublet to Colas Railfreight twice in the past month due to a lack of staff available at DBC...

 

[Clarence Yard]

Heard today on a Facebook group DB schenker have got the contract, with staff training due to start in November for GWR guards. Facebook post was from a Exeter based guard. The same post says it will be Cardiff to Paignton for training runs.

Extremely premature. The use of LHCS is not yet agreed and, thanks to the 153 sets being retained, may not happen.

 

[co-tr-paul]

As per short hst plan being on hold.

 

[Clarence Yard]

As per short hst plan being on hold.

It isn't. Converting 11 sets is very much on.

 

[RPI]

Extremely premature. The use of LHCS is not yet agreed and, thanks to the 153 sets being retained, may not happen.

Only 5 153's staying, 325, 329, 333, 361 and 369 (Porter Brook ones) but these too will eventually go.

 

[Mordac]

Only 5 153's staying, 325, 329, 333, 361 and 369 (Porter Brook ones) but these too will eventually go.

There's 6 meant to go to LM, plus those 5 leaves 3 unallocated. Do you know if there's anything afoot with them?