The future of Barlaston / Norton Bridge / Wedgwood railway stations.

[MidnightFlyer]

As is Kidsgrove - it's a mystery to me how the ticket office has survived there when there are no other staffed local stations between Derby and Crewe, despite places like Uttoxeter and Blythe Bridge seeming to have far more passengers.

Edit - a quick look at the usage figures shows that Kidsgrove is busier - so that would probably be the reason!

It does happen though, there are many examples of pairs or series of stations where the busier one is unstaffed but the quieter one isn't. I suppose there must have been some logic to it way back when (the majority of booking office closures happened in either the 60s or late 80s to early 90s), but it ha left some odd situations.

 

[thenorthern]

Blythe Bridge, Longton and Uttoxeter all had ticket offices until around 1990, Tutbury and Hatton never had one as it didn't reopen until 1989. I think Kidsgrove would have probably closed if it wasn't for changes at the time.

Kidsgrove itself though went into decline for 5 years from 2003-2008 when most the First North Western trains were withdrawn from the station as part of the upgrade but they were re-instated in 2008 with the very high frequency timetable as all the TOCs were a bit concerned that the Stafford/Colwich to Manchester line wasn't congested enough.

 

[Class 170101]

Longport is the mystery here. An open station, with London Midland Trains passing through! Southbound, they then sit at Stoke for 5 mins, so could easily of called! Northbound, the extra min or two, is neither here nor there, and there is nothing following close behind anyway. Yet they shun it! With Port Vale Football ground an easy walk away, match traffic would be plentiful!

Problem is eight car trains can't stop at Longport as far as I know. The station gets LM trains on some Sundays if EMT are blocked between Derby and Stoke. However I expect they would want to deter football traffic as it could overwhelm the maximum four car length trains that can be provided.

 

[6Gman]

Longport is the mystery here. An open station, with London Midland Trains passing through! Southbound, they then sit at Stoke for 5 mins, so could easily of called! Northbound, the extra min or two, is neither here nor there, and there is nothing following close behind anyway. Yet they shun it! With Port Vale Football ground an easy walk away, match traffic would be plentiful!

Well, best part of a mile and a half. And uphill!

On the main subject, as a semi-local:

Norton Bridge - will never reopen. Middle of nowhere territory.
Stone - in my experience has decent usage. I'm generally on off-peak trains but there are usually 8-15 boarding/ alighting in my experience.
Barlaston - decent-sized village with an affluent catchment area. I don't see travel into Hanley as the market but longer commuting/shopping/leisure travel.
Wedgwood - barely half a mile away so unlikely that both could/would reopen. Now, if one of them could be provided with a decent-sized car park ..... (Stoke South Parkway anyone?)

 

[RichmondCommu]

Whilst I have no wish to rain on anyone's parade I would be surprised if the 'Vale get more than 5,000 through the gate for home games and faced with a mile and half walk up a hill demand is going to be limited. Very limited. Just saying that's all.

 

[thenorthern]

Regarding Longport its just that London Midland isn't required to stop there as part of their franchise agreement.

 

[swt class 450]

From looking on Google Maps the distance between Barlaston to Wedgwood is just 0.7 miles which is the same exact distance between Dorking Deepdene to Dorking West. It seems like both stations could be useful for different purposes so i still think it would be better to reopen both. There is nothing wrong with having two stations close to each other.

 

[daodao]

From looking on Google Maps the distance between Barlaston to Wedgwood is just 0.7 miles which is the same exact distance between Dorking Deepdene to Dorking West. It seems like both stations could be useful for different purposes so i still think it would be better to reopen both. There is nothing wrong with having two stations close to each other.

For stations close together, see Table 130 for the North Cardiff line (distances in miles):

– – 0 – – Coryton
– – 0½ – – Whitchurch (Cardiff)
– – 0¾ – – Rhiwbina
– – 1¼ – – Birchgrove
– – 1½ – – Ty Glas
– – 2¼ – – Heath Low Level

 

[thenorthern]

One thing to remember with the lines around Stoke-on-Trent is they weren't designed to cope with the traffic they are taking now, Stoke-on-Trent as we know it didn't exist until around 1910 long after the railways were first built.

But at the start of 2007 at Stoke-on-Trent there was the hourly London to Manchester train, hourly Crewe to Derby, hourly Virgin Cross Country train from Manchester to somewhere south as well as an irregular Stoke-on-Trent to Manchester local.

But then CrossCountry services on the WCML were to no longer run north of Manchester and CrossCountry decided to run nearly all trains through Stoke instead of Crewe, Virgin Trains decided to add another London to Manchester train again choosing Stoke over Crewe, Northern decided that they wanted more trains to Congleton to the local trains were extended from Macclesfield to Stoke and finally London Midland decided to add a new Crewe to London service.

This meant by December 2008 there were six through trains per hour calling at Stoke-on-Trent which bearing in mind only has two through platforms in addition there was the terminating service from Manchester.

Realistically if before anything happens Network Rail really need to look at adding an additional platform at Stoke-on-Trent the three platforms are just not really enough. Bearing in mind other stations in the area are much bigger such as Crewe (12 Platforms), Derby (6), Stafford (5), Wolverhampton (6) and Shrewsbury (5).

 

[Deafdoggie]

Whilst I have no wish to rain on anyone's parade I would be surprised if the 'Vale get more than 5,000 through the gate for home games and faced with a mile and half walk up a hill demand is going to be limited. Very limited. Just saying that's all.

I just thought the Vale supporters might like to keep each other company on the walk! It's a lonely walk if either of them didn't turn up

 

[The Planner]

This meant by December 2008 there were six through trains per hour calling at Stoke-on-Trent which bearing in mind only has two through platforms in addition there was the terminating service from Manchester.

Realistically if before anything happens Network Rail really need to look at adding an additional platform at Stoke-on-Trent the three platforms are just not really enough. Bearing in mind other stations in the area are much bigger such as Crewe (12 Platforms), Derby (6), Stafford (5), Wolverhampton (6) and Shrewsbury (5).

If we cannot cope with 6tph on two platforms then we need to go home now. It only becomes a problem if you have a flight of trains.

 

[SWT_USER]

Opening/ not opening these stations won't affect me either way but I am concerned that stations can 'temporarily' lose their service and ultimately never get them back. Either close them formally or provide a useable service.

 

[Ianno87]

From looking on Google Maps the distance between Barlaston to Wedgwood is just 0.7 miles which is the same exact distance between Dorking Deepdene to Dorking West. It seems like both stations could be useful for different purposes so i still think it would be better to reopen both. There is nothing wrong with having two stations close to each other.

Other than the time takes (and thus track capacity) used up by calling at both. Trains calling at the Dorking stations aren't having to do so inamongst 2 Voyagers and 2 Pendolinos each way per hour.

Plus pathing of an LM service is quite constrained by fitting through Stafford, and the Barthomley-North Staffs single line.

 

[Cletus]

For Norton Bridge you can look at Bing maps "birds eye" view and that shows the platform and footbridge.
http://www.bing.com/maps/#Y3A9NTEuM...0b24lMjBCcmlkZ2UlMkMlMjBVbml0ZWQlMjBLaW5nZG9t

 

[D Foster]

For Norton Bridge you can look at Bing maps "birds eye" view and that shows the platform and footbridge.
http://www.bing.com/maps/#Y3A9NTEuM...0b24lMjBCcmlkZ2UlMkMlMjBVbml0ZWQlMjBLaW5nZG9t

Shows just how out of date Bing maps can be! The foot bridge at the Up end of the island platform has been gone for a few years now. Does Bing Map show the new junction arrangements?

Whether stations are open or not is also related to the impacts they have on line capacity. Even with improved acceleration and braking modern trains take time to slow down, have platform dwell time and take time to get back up to speed. The first and last can be affected by track/rail head conditions - and close stations limit achievable speed. This all means that stopping trains impact on what other movements can do. (How many can be fitted around them - or not).



PS according to Radio Stoke this afternoon a group of WI ladies were involved in an "incident" with the barriers at Barlaston level crossing on (IIRC) Tuesday.

 

[thenorthern]

If we cannot cope with 6tph on two platforms then we need to go home now. It only becomes a problem if you have a flight of trains.

Its works at the moment but if more trains or stops were to be introduced there would be a problem of over capacity, remember as well there is no where for trains to overtake between Stone Junction and Cheadle Hulme Junction.

 

[6Gman]

Its works at the moment but if more trains or stops were to be introduced there would be a problem of over capacity, remember as well there is no where for trains to overtake between Stone Junction and Cheadle Hulme Junction.

Are the loops in the Grange Jn area passed for passenger use?

 

[thenorthern]

Are the loops in the Grange Jn area passed for passenger use?

I am not sure but even if they are they aren't in use.

 

[Greybeard33]

Its works at the moment but if more trains or stops were to be introduced there would be a problem of over capacity, remember as well there is no where for trains to overtake between Stone Junction and Cheadle Hulme Junction.

There is a loop at Macclesfield. It is not unusual for the northbound Northern stopper to be diverted across into Platform 3 so that a late running Pendolino or Voyager can overtake.

 

[The Planner]

Its works at the moment but if more trains or stops were to be introduced there would be a problem of over capacity, remember as well there is no where for trains to overtake between Stone Junction and Cheadle Hulme Junction.

Apart from Sideway on the down and the move at Macc as previously mentioned. Once HS2 appears then you are going to lose one of the fast paths anyway. Grange Loops are freight only.

 

[swt class 450]

Other than the time takes (and thus track capacity) used up by calling at both. Trains calling at the Dorking stations aren't having to do so inamongst 2 Voyagers and 2 Pendolinos each way per hour.

Plus pathing of an LM service is quite constrained by fitting through Stafford, and the Barthomley-North Staffs single line.

I suppose if neccesary they could alternate calls between Barlaston and Wedgwood. So each station would get a train every two hours in each direction. I cant imagine that many passengers would need to travel just between Barlaston and Wedgwood. Although i think that if it is timed and worked out well than trains could call at both stations every hour in each direction without being in the way of other trains.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Does anyone really expect these thread-proposed reopenings to be a serious proposition?
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There is a loop at Macclesfield. It is not unusual for the northbound Northern stopper to be diverted across into Platform 3 so that a late running Pendolino or Voyager can overtake.

Quite a number of years ago, in the morning peak period, passengers at Poynton station were often informed that their local stopping service to Manchester was delayed for that very reason.

 

[Ianno87]

Its works at the moment but if more trains or stops were to be introduced there would be a problem of over capacity, remember as well there is no where for trains to overtake between Stone Junction and Cheadle Hulme Junction.

A 3rd through platform at Stoke won't help in sorting out the speed mix further north. Pumping Fast trains closer together through Stoke to "bunch" them more to make room for the stopper will just mean they fall over each other at Stockport instead.

Not sure there is any sensible infrastructure intervention to solve this - longer term (after 2027), most Euston-Manchester trains will be diverted via HS2 and Crewe anyway, rendering any infrastructure work on this route fairly pointless.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suppose if neccesary they could alternate calls between Barlaston and Wedgwood. So each station would get a train every two hours in each direction. I cant imagine that many passengers would need to travel just between Barlaston and Wedgwood. Although i think that if it is timed and worked out well than trains could call at both stations every hour in each direction without being in the way of other trains.

Hourly at one is probably more useful, to be honest.
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Does anyone really expect these thread-proposed reopenings to be a serious proposition?

They aren't "thread-proposed", they are part of the London Midland ITT. So they are proposed by the DfT.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Opening/ not opening these stations won't affect me either way but I am concerned that stations can 'temporarily' lose their service and ultimately never get them back. Either close them formally or provide a useable service.

This is indeed the point! Either have trains calling there or close them. I am old enough to remember Etruia, as areas change then the railway needs to adapt. With all the industry gone from Etruia, and the remodelled raod layout, it was never going to busy again, best closed than limp on.

The access to Etruia was off a three lane dual carriageway. There was no pull-in, no drop off access. The bus stop from the City Centre was not too bad, but if you are getting the bus from the City Centre, you might aswell get the bus to Stoke Station!

The bus from Newcastle-Under-Lyme was less appealing, as you had to use a dark dank subway to cross the road.

So now, Longport is the closest and easiest station for the large town of Newcastle-Under-Lyme to get to, but the trains don't stop! It is right besides the A500 turn off, it has a large disused freight yard (the green tree area if you look on googlemaps!) for easy parking. But no rail company appears to have any desire to promote it or grow the service. The sizeable "Mother town" of The Potteries (Burslem) is an easy walk away, and both Port Vale supporters could travel to away matches! There are frequent buses from Newcastle, it has drop off point. It is ideal, but noone stops except EMT, and two North bound Northern trains! what a waste of potential custom.

Best closing Norton Bridge & Wedgwood, put the money spent on not paying buses into Longport, and develop the business.

 

[thenorthern]

A 3rd through platform at Stoke won't help in sorting out the speed mix further north. Pumping Fast trains closer together through Stoke to "bunch" them more to make room for the stopper will just mean they fall over each other at Stockport instead.

Not sure there is any sensible infrastructure intervention to solve this - longer term (after 2027), most Euston-Manchester trains will be diverted via HS2 and Crewe anyway, rendering any infrastructure work on this route fairly pointless.

Difficult to say with the Euston to Manchester trains as when the first phase opens it will only be London to Lichfield so the trains would probably still run via Stoke-on-Trent.

Even after phase 2 is completed there will still be trains running via Stoke-on-Trent as from what I gather if Stoke-on-Trent wasn't where it is there would most likely be two trains per hour to Manchester and one per hour to Stoke-on-Trent from London.

Back to Wedgwood and Barlaston though, Stone is probably in the most ideal place for the services that call there as its on a relatively quiet slow section of a connecting line meaning it doesn't affect the paths of other trains in the area that much.

Wedgwood and Barlaston on the other hand are on a fast section of a much busier main line meaning stopping a train will be much harder.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Not sure there is any sensible infrastructure intervention to solve this - longer term (after 2027), most Euston-Manchester trains will be diverted via HS2 and Crewe anyway, rendering any infrastructure work on this route fairly pointless.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. Sure, there'll be new Euston-Manchester services via HS2, and those will pull most of those passengers who are travelling the entire route (as well as attracting new passengers). But there are a lot of intermediate places that won't be served by HS2, and which will still need direct links to both London and Manchester. I'd expect it's rather more likely that most of the current London-Manchester services will still exist, but will stop at more places so as to better serve Watford, Milton Keynes, Rugby, Nuneaton, etc. - which in itself will attract other new passengers. I wouldn't be at all surprised if as a result it turns out there's enough demand after HS2 to run 2tph London-Manchester via the WCML and Stoke.

 

[The Planner]

Difficult to say with the Euston to Manchester trains as when the first phase opens it will only be London to Lichfield so the trains would probably still run via Stoke-on-Trent.

Depends if they can accelerate Phase 2A and open to Crewe in one go. If that is the case then they could all go via Crewe with the Liverpool via Stafford.

Wedgwood and Barlaston on the other hand are on a fast section of a much busier main line meaning stopping a train will be much harder.

You can stop a LM train now at one of them and not impact anything.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Apologies if this has been covered before but what is the reason that no trains call at Barlaston / Norton Bridge / Wedgwood railway stations? I understand that London Midland trains regularly pass through these three stations but none of them stop. Why is there not even a parliamentary service? I believe that Stone had services withdrawn and then reinstated so will these stations ever get their services reinstated as well? Also is it possible to visit these three stations or have they been fenced off like Newhaven Marine?

Norton Bridge, nominally, has a public footpath leading up to the railway boundary adjacent to the track (but not the platform) on the EAST side i.e. not the traditional access from the west side via the footbridge. As this footpath is a dead end I cannot think when it will have been used, unless (very) historically there was access to the station from this side. The signal box would have had its own arrangements, from railway land or adjacent private land, rather than a public right of way.

The following link goes to the Staffordshire CC on-line rights of way map
https://www.staffordshire.gov.uk/environment/eLand/RightsofWay/Footpaths-bridleways.aspx
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To clarify the above, Norton Bridge was only accessible by footbridge, and the footbridge got taken out to improve overhear clearance. The bus service is a token service in a very similar vein to the old Croxley Green system.

Can't imagine Wedgwood reopening as the only thing in the direct vicinity of the station is the pottery factory.

Also a large new housing development at the upper end of the market (£680,000 for a house in Stoke, who would believe it!)
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Doesn't Norton bridge sit between the up fast and the reversible east chord? So AFAICT there is no likelihood of a down direction service ever stopping there at all, even if it was accessible?

Surely, if the east chord is reversible, stopping services could use it to serve the station in both directions?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Well, best part of a mile and a half. And uphill!

On the main subject, as a semi-local:

Norton Bridge - will never reopen. Middle of nowhere territory.
Stone - in my experience has decent usage. I'm generally on off-peak trains but there are usually 8-15 boarding/ alighting in my experience.
Barlaston - decent-sized village with an affluent catchment area. I don't see travel into Hanley as the market but longer commuting/shopping/leisure travel.
Wedgwood - barely half a mile away so unlikely that both could/would reopen. Now, if one of them could be provided with a decent-sized car park ..... (Stoke South Parkway anyone?)

There is a large car park adjacent to Wedgwood Halt, formerly for Wedgwood employees, currently blocked to prevent unauthorised access. If you assume people are going to drive to a station and then commute, Wedgwood is the better option as it potentially has a car park whereas Barlaston has little land available nearby for a car park. However, if people are to walk to a station and then commute, Barlaston is the better option as it has a greater residential population within easy walking distance.

The roads between the two stations do not have footways so opening Wedgwood but not Barlaston is not a good option for pedestrians.

Wedgwood Halt is accessed only via private roads i.e. not adopted highways (rights controlled by Wedgwood) with no legal right of access except on foot (there is a public right of way along the full length of Wedgwood Drive).

There is a weight limit on the canal bridge to the west (with a height barrier to enforce it) and access from the east requires use of the level crossing.

 

[thenorthern]

I have just realised that when the London Midland franchise expires Wedgwood, Barlaston and Norton Bridge will join the category of "Stations that were never served by rail by their managed Train Operating Company or anyone else". Other stations in this category are Pendleton which was never served by First North Western and Sinfin North & Sinfin Central both of which were never served by Central Trains all three of which were officially closed in 1998. The Croxley Green branch stations I think also fit in this category although I am not sure when they closed officially.