GWR 1C95 19 03 Paddington to Penzance 21/10 TM unavailable

[PHILIPE]

This train, which was grossly overcrowded, terminated at Reading due to the TM being assaulted and ran ECS to Plymouth. No details at the moment re condition of TM or if the assailant was apprehended. I believe Reading passengers travel on this although pick up stop only.
According to another Forum, the information, or lack of it, was atrocious. (as usual:cry::cry. Passengers were merely told to catch the next train, which was probably overcrowded itself anyway, and although 1C95 was the last train of the day to Cornwall, and could also have been busier than normal due to the start of the half term holiday. Passengers could get no information or suitable advice, from anybody. However, for Cornwall passengers on a later train, a 2355 Additional from Plymouth to Penzance was arranged.
We keep hearing how customer information in times of disruption, is going to be improved but this only seems to be until the next time.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Not criticising anybody, but why would the train run ECS to its destination, leaving hundreds of passengers behind?
It would cost GWR a large sum in compensation for the delays.

 

[G0ORC]

Not criticising anybody, but why would the train run ECS to its destination, leaving hundreds of passengers behind?
It would cost GWR a large sum in compensation for the delays.

Ermmm - because the conductor had been assaulted, there wasn't another one and it can't run in passenger service without a conductor.

I presume the HST was required at destination for tomorrow's service.

Seems perfectly logical to me...

 

[jimm]

re GWR and provision of information, having looked at the GW Coffeeshop Forum thread, the following note from the initial post made there was being put out by GWR online after the train was terminated at Reading. Is it any wonder passengers get hacked off about being given next to no information, or contradictory and confusing information in these situations. No mention whatever of an assault, which might have made people slightly more understanding.

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=17573.0

Quote
19:03 London Paddington to Penzance due 00:40

This train will be terminated at Reading.
This train will no longer call at Newbury, Taunton, Tiverton Parkway, Exeter St Davids, Newton Abbot, Totnes, Plymouth, Saltash, St Germans, Liskeard, Bodmin Parkway, Lostwithiel, Par, St Austell, Truro, Redruth, Camborne, Hayle, St Erth and Penzance.
This is due to overcrowding.

Not criticising anybody, but why would the train run ECS to its destination, leaving hundreds of passengers behind?
It would cost GWR a large sum in compensation for the delays.

Presumably for the simple reason that no replacement train manager could be found to take the train on to the South West - but the HST needed to be down there for its booked duties today.

 

[TheEdge]

Firstly I hope the T/M is not too badly injured. Secondly it will have been run ECS as they could not just abandon the set there and at that time of day I doubt there is any way to resource a new T/M with the requisite knowledge to take a HST from Reading to the South West. The T/M involved will be in no state to work the train.

Now I wonder if this will maybe make GWR take a hard look at that service and either remove Reading entirely from it or come down like a ton of bricks on those who abuse the Pick Up only stop.

 

[jimm]

Now I wonder if this will maybe make GWR take a hard look at that service and either remove Reading entirely from it or come down like a ton of bricks on those who abuse the Pick Up only stop.

Before this turns into yet another 'let's not stop expresses at the second biggest interchange station in the UK after Birmingham New Street' thread, perhaps we might wait until the circumstances are known.

Unless you know different, there doesn't seem to be any detail on what actually happened, nor that a 'Reading commuter' was involved. It could just as well have been someone going to Penzance who believed they had a divine right to a seat.

 

[Mag_seven]

During the 80's many popular trains at holiday times would become reservation only - only those with a reservation would be allowed to board. Just like planes and coaches. I don't understand for the life of me why a similar policy cannot be introduced today. People have to accept that the concept of an automatic right to join a train of their choice has to be sacrificed at busy times.

 

[bramling]

During the 80's many popular trains at holiday times would become reservation only - only those with a reservation would be allowed to board. Just like planes and coaches. I don't understand for the life of me why a similar policy cannot be introduced today. People have to accept that the concept of an automatic right to join a train of their choice has to be sacrificed at busy times.

Would it really be that hard for GWR to run some kind of relief service for the busiest days?

One thing about this overcrowding down to the west country is that it's fairly predictable - Fridays, in particular those falling before school or public holiday dates.

 

[TheEdge]

Before this turns into yet another 'let's not stop expresses at the second biggest interchange station in the UK after Birmingham New Street' thread, perhaps we might wait until the circumstances are known.

Unless you know different, there doesn't seem to be any detail on what actually happened, nor that a 'Reading commuter' was involved. It could just as well have been someone going to Penzance who believed they had a divine right to a seat.

I'm not blaming a Reading commuter but my point is this train doesn't stop at Reading, I'm not taking a service out either. The 1903 service is pick up only, people should not be using it to get to Reading on a Friday. GWR would technically be well within their rights to penalty fare every person who gets off that train at Reading but it isn't policed. However we see a thread about an incident or overcrowding on the 1903 pretty regularly.

I'd like to hope an assault on a member of staff on it (more than likely due to the crowding) will make GWR look hard at that service. Maybe even outright remove the Reading stop.

 

[Mag_seven]

Would it really be that hard for GWR to run some kind of relief service for the busiest days?

Obviously yes. At that time on a Friday all HST's will be fully diagrammed and committed to other services. During events such as the Cheltenham Festival GWR cancel other services to provide resources, but the question would be what service should be canceled to provide a WoE relief? A Bristol service, a Cheltenham Service, a South Wales service all of which are likely to be equally busy?

 

[Bletchleyite]

During the 80's many popular trains at holiday times would become reservation only - only those with a reservation would be allowed to board. Just like planes and coaches. I don't understand for the life of me why a similar policy cannot be introduced today. People have to accept that the concept of an automatic right to join a train of their choice has to be sacrificed at busy times.

I'm not sure why that would have any bearing or not on why the TM was assaulted. Or is there evidence that the reason for the assault was a Reading passenger who was reprimanded for using that train?

But regardless, it isn't acceptable to abandon passengers. Staff needed to be brought in, from Paddington on the next train if necessary, to reassure and explain to passengers what was to be done, be that free hotel accommodation, replacement buses or what.

 

[BRblue]

I'm not sure why that would have any bearing or not on why the TM was assaulted. Or is there evidence that the reason for the assault was a Reading passenger who was reprimanded for using that train?

But regardless, it isn't acceptable to abandon passengers. Staff needed to be brought in, from Paddington on the next train if necessary, to reassure and explain to passengers what was to be done, be that free hotel accommodation, replacement buses or what.

I'm sorry Neil neither is it acceptable that a member of staff is assaulted... for whatever reason.
Let's not forget that if the assault had not occurred the service would of continued to the west Country. Perhaps the TOC should of tried to give out more information, but that should not excuse the actions of one passenger who caused the issue by assaulting a member of staff.
Maybe our ire should be directed in there direction as well as GWR.

 

[theageofthetra]

I'm glad the thread is finally concentrating on the real victim here- the guard who was assaulted.

Hope they recover and continue serving the railway.

 

[Phil.]

I'm not blaming a Reading commuter but my point is this train doesn't stop at Reading, I'm not taking a service out either. The 1903 service is pick up only, people should not be using it to get to Reading on a Friday. GWR would technically be well within their rights to penalty fare every person who gets off that train at Reading but it isn't policed. However we see a thread about an incident or overcrowding on the 1903 pretty regularly.

I'd like to hope an assault on a member of staff on it (more than likely due to the crowding) will make GWR look hard at that service. Maybe even outright remove the Reading stop.

In B.R. days there were ticket checks at the barriers on a Friday to ensure that no passengers holding Reading tickets boarded Friday late afternoon/evening trains that were pick-up only at Reading. If any escaped on to the train they were charged a single fare to the next advertised set down point. Posters were prominently displayed everywhere. Trains were carefully platformed to ensure that no such train were - if possible - put into P1/8/9. All FGW have to do is the same. I wouldn't involve a penalty fare scheme though, that's really asking for trouble.

 

[philthetube]

Someone should have announced that onward travel would be arranged from Plymouth, people who work on the railways all know that passengers would not be dumped in the middle of the night, this would have taken the heat out of the situation.

Different subject.

Could the person committing the assault be held liable for railway costs?

 

[AlterEgo]

Could the person committing the assault be held liable for railway costs?

No...

 

[broadgage]

If anyone HAD waited for the next* timetabled train which was not until the next day, would they have been "fined" for use of an out of date ticket.

*other than the sleeper which has very limited capacity and could not have accommodated everyone from a full and standing HST.

 

[D1009]

To try and keep this in perspective, only a small proportion of those 500 would be likely to be going west of Plymouth.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm glad the thread is finally concentrating on the real victim here- the guard who was assaulted.

There are lots of victims.

The primary victim, the guard, who I hope is OK.

The secondary victims, every passenger on the train except the criminal, who I hope is waiting behind bars for a trial.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'm sorry Neil neither is it acceptable that a member of staff is assaulted... for whatever reason.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

Let's not forget that if the assault had not occurred the service would of continued to the west Country. Perhaps the TOC should of tried to give out more information, but that should not excuse the actions of one passenger who caused the issue by assaulting a member of staff.

I never said it did.

Maybe our ire should be directed in there direction as well as GWR.

It is quite valid to direct ire at both! It could have been a double power-car failure - the effect would have been the same on the other passengers.

 

[wingsoveryorks]

I'm glad the thread is finally concentrating on the real victim here- the guard who was assaulted.

Hope they recover and continue serving the railway.

I'll second that. Perhaps if the public stopped thinking they could abuse and assault staff going about their jobs, they would all have got home. At least now people understand, assault staff, have a long night.

 

[dk1]

To try and keep this in perspective, only a small proportion of those 500 would be likely to be going west of Plymouth.

You say a small proportion but in my experience that is still at least 150 on a Friday.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'll second that. Perhaps if the public stopped thinking they could abuse and assault staff going about their jobs, they would all have got home. At least now people understand, assault staff, have a long night.

One person clearly needed to learn that lesson, and hopefully he is learning it care of Her Majesty.

It seems rather unfair for it to be imposed on the other 500, doesn't it? They are victims too.

 

[dk1]

It's also quite normal for trains without a TM/Guard to go forward ECS. For a time XC had crewing issues & trains would run as a passenger service Penzance to Plymouth then ECS to Bristol to re-start. Many Stansted-Birmingham weekend services where ECS all the way from Cambridge. I've run ECS from Liverpool St to Norwich many times if short of conductors based in London or at least as far as Colchester/Ipswich so a spare can be sent South to restart.

 

[General Zod]

Did GWR lay on an extra train to convey passengers to Penzance ? RTT shows 1Z96 2355 Plymouth - Penzance, which was originally 1C96 1945 London Paddington to Plymouth.

1C96 :
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C41515/2016/10/21/advanced

1Z96 :
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O37815/2016/10/21/advanced

 

[Darandio]

Did GWR lay on an extra train to convey passengers to Penzance ?

Yes, it was covered in post 3.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2747617&postcount=3

 

[wingsoveryorks]

One person clearly needed to learn that lesson, and hopefully he is learning it care of Her Majesty.

It seems rather unfair for it to be imposed on the other 500, doesn't it? They are victims too.

Perhaps we should all make an announcement before departure. Something along the lines of.

"Ladies and gentleman. This train crew is based in Plymouth. If anyone decides to abuse the staff, there is no replacements anywhere, you will be finding alternative methods of transport."

That should do the trick. But personally, I don't really care about the inconvenience. Far too often I have seen passengers who could assist sit there like big softies pretending they haven't seen, heard, or witnessed anything. Well now a couple of hundred people will be a little wiser to what happens when the people responsible for their safety are assaulted.

My thoughts go to the TM.

 

[HowardGWR]

But personally, I don't really care about the inconvenience. Far too often I have seen passengers who could assist sit there like big softies pretending they haven't seen, heard, or witnessed anything. Well now a couple of hundred people will be a little wiser to what happens when the people responsible for their safety are assaulted.
My thoughts go to the TM.

Oh, so now the other passengers are to blame for the delay. :roll:

This thread has contained some very curious ideas of logic and sense of fairness. Thanks to Neil_Williams for putting the matter sensibly.

 

[HowardGWR]

Thanks and apologies to anyone whom I may have offended. As we have not heard of any twitter noise over this affair, one assumes that pax were well-satisfied with the extra train laid on and the original posting was perhaps jumping the gun somewhat, possibly?

In fact it seems the GWR reacted superbly.

 

[broadgage]

Some years ago I went to the aid of a railway employee being assaulted.

I was arrested and held in a police cell, then bailed for a later court appearance. Although I was Acquitted, this cost me time off work, money for fares and legal expenses, and also caused a lot of trouble with my then employers who regarded a court appearance for "violent crime" as being almost the same as a conviction.

The magistrates give the impression that I was "lucky to get away with it" rather than being innocent.
Neither the railway employee who was being assaulted, nor their employers offered any assistance in court.

I doubt that I would bother if in a similar situation again.

 

[gsnedders]

I suspect a fair number of people on the train going to Cornwall, being a Friday evening service, live in London or have been there for work. In the former case, if you're stuck in Reading and your options are: a) try your luck with ticket acceptance on the sleeper as the next available train (either from Reading or Plymouth); b) hope GWR arrange a hotel for you (either in Reading or Plymouth); c) go the comparatively short distance home to London and hope GWR get you there tomorrow. Case a) likely isn't immediately apparent and as such is somewhat risky (what is the TM of the sleeper going to do with an extra 150 passengers?); b) is hard to come by because all anyone will typically tell you is they don't have authority to arrange such a thing; c) is chancey whether you'll have to buy a new ticket tomorrow but at least you guarantee yourself a bed tonight.