New Paper Tickets

[185143]

Liverpool Lime Street's scanners do not work! Disgraceful effort (yet again) from Northern that they are using the barriers before they are set up.

I couldn't get through with a new ticket on Saturday. Some people in front were having trouble with concessionary passes too.

I couldn't get through with an M-ticket today. Disgraceful.

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[Bletchleyite]

I assume that they will just be used on train and not in ticket offices/TVMs?

Correct. Though the question really does need to be asked - why is TfL maintaining huge quantities of expensive, many-moving-parts magnetic stripe ticketing equipment just for the benefit of National Rail passengers? If I were TfL I would be finding that cost, borne by the London taxpayer, impossible to justify.

Barcode readers on the gates at defined interchange stations only would be a far cheaper solution. Outboundary season Travelcards would use an Oyster/ITSO based solution, while "paper" (single-use contactless) Travelcards could be "traded in" from barcode to magstripe at a Tube ticket machine.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Correct. Though the question really does need to be asked - why is TfL maintaining huge quantities of expensive, many-moving-parts magnetic stripe ticketing equipment just for the benefit of National Rail passengers? If I were TfL I would be finding that cost, borne by the London taxpayer, impossible to justify.

Because it's not just for National Rail passengers. London Overground, London Underground, London Trams, TfL Rail and the DLR all issue a not insignificant number of paper tickets every day to people who haven't got/don't want Oyster or Contactless Payment Cards, and Visitor Travelcards still come in paper form as well.

 

[rebmcr]

Because it's not just for National Rail passengers. London Overground, London Underground, London Trams, TfL Rail and the DLR all issue a not insignificant number of paper tickets every day to people who haven't got/don't want Oyster or Contactless Payment Cards, and Visitor Travelcards still come in paper form as well.

With the rollout of ticket machines able to issue Oyster cards, it's only a matter of time before TfL clearly are planning to move on.

 

[swt class 450]

SWT are using ATOS Envoy and it will issue tickets on normal credit card size tickets.

Interesting. Have they already started using these? If so are the tickets printed in the normal format? Does anyone have any photos of these new machines?

 

[TEW]

Interesting. Have they already started using these? If so are the tickets printed in the normal format? Does anyone have any photos of these new machines?

Rollout has just started. All the RPIs I've seen over the last couple of days have had them. Guards will soon too. They print in the new style ticket format AFAIK.

 

[route101]

Scotrail have new ticket machines that print new tickets onboard but not these tickets.

 

[FordFocus]

It's not like these tickets have just appeared overnight. As usual though with our wonderful integrated franchise system, no one has bothered to install QR barcode readers on ticket barriers. No doubt there is the argument of who pays for it. The TOC, the DfT, PTE, God, ATOS or nobody.

What's the ATOS Envoy and is there another machine apart from the Fujitsu that Arriva are using?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

The words of someone who clearly hasn't had to use an Avantix machine in anger!

STAR Mobile has the option of Avantix style tickets apparently, but Northern didn't want them as Barcodes on large paper tickets are "a stepping stone towards smartcards", or something like that.....

Seen the size of them? This is the future. Size wise no bigger tham the elgar tickets that used to be seen yet made of paper so can be folded safely. Will be seen across the network soon...

According to manglement, the tickets could *soon* be "a lot smaller" as the text about being subject to the National Conditions of Travel can be removed as it's already written on the back of the ticket stock (well, sort of...).

....Sharpies cant be wiped off and along with batcode scamners now being seen in use on board it will now be easier to tell if SORs are being used as seasons....

It can tell if a person has started a journey and had their ticket checked, not convinced it can prove much else....

Most On Board will use these new paper variants but gateline staff will have card tickets. Tickets involving underground will not be accepted by tfl and passenger will need to exchange tickets at a ticket office. Travel cards and underground tickets Cannot be issued on the paper tickets so no more guards able to sell travel cards

Not just London where there are issues, some machines, apparently, can't do Rovers or rangers and any third party tickets are likely to not be sold, so things like Metrolink, PlusBus, etc, etc.

Liverpool Lime Street's scanners do not work! Disgraceful effort (yet again) from Northern that they are using the barriers before they are set up.

I couldn't get through with a new ticket on Saturday. Some people in front were having trouble with concessionary passes too.

I couldn't get through with an M-ticket today. Disgraceful....

Northern's new staff smartcards don't even open the barriers at Lime Street.

.... while "paper" (single-use contactless) Travelcards could be "traded in" from barcode to magstripe at a Tube ticket machine.

VTEC are planning that sort of thing by way of a ToD voucher, downside is that if the ticket is paid for by cash or Voucher, the passenger can't collect from a TVM. Simpler answer, of course, would have been to keep Magstripe tickets on board and ditch the larger paper tickets....

 

[185143]

Would it not be an idea for long distance TOCs who sell a lot of travelcards onboard (eg. VTEC/VTWC) to keep an avantix machine onboard in the TMs office that can sell these travelcards? Or even put a printer in there?

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[hairyhandedfool]

Would it not be an idea for long distance TOCs who sell a lot of travelcards onboard (eg. VTEC/VTWC) to keep an avantix machine onboard in the TMs office that can sell these travelcards? Or even put a printer in there?....

Avantix is basically dead tech, so that won't happen, but even if it could, why would they pay to have two ticket machines, that only one person can use, on a train, when there are ticket printers available to do the job with the new ticket machines?

 

[FordFocus]

Would it not be an idea for long distance TOCs who sell a lot of travelcards onboard (eg. VTEC/VTWC) to keep an avantix machine onboard in the TMs office that can sell these travelcards? Or even put a printer in there?

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Not really workable.

Avantix needs to be docked and recharged every night to update the fares and timetables. Worldline/ATOS aren't going to support it much longer. As the poster said above, why would a TOC pay for two systems?

TMs would have to book out both a new machine and Avantix adding on yet more kit to carry. Avantix is very costly. If a TM was 7 carriages away from the office I think that's too much to walk all the way back to start an Avantix machine, log on, print the ticket and then walk all the way back.

 

[185143]

Fair point. Used the new paper tickets (Merseytravel Saveaways) on buses 3 times so far. 2 drivers have questioned it.

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[Crossover]

I have no issue with the replacement of the Avantix - as has been said, it is outdated technology. However, after standardising on credit card sized tickets that fit neatly into wallets, to go back to ones that barely fit in my wallet is a huge step backwards IMO

 

[transmanche]

So basically Northern are doing it on the cheap and have not properly adapted their barriers, but other TOCs have.

Do Northern manage Leeds station? Or is it Network Rail?

 

[Crossover]

Do Northern manage Leeds station? Or is it Network Rail?

Fairly certain it is Network Rail who manage it

 

[headshot119]

Because it's not just for National Rail passengers. London Overground, London Underground, London Trams, TfL Rail and the DLR all issue a not insignificant number of paper tickets every day to people who haven't got/don't want Oyster or Contactless Payment Cards, and Visitor Travelcards still come in paper form as well.

Do what they do in Singapore issue disposable paper tickets with NFC capability.

 

[swt class 450]

The problem with these tickets is that they will probably end up getting all creased and crumpled and passengers might throw them away by accident thinking that they are receipts or vouchers.

I havent gotten one of these tickets yet but i remember when i have been on trains in Lithuania / Latvia / Estonia the onboard staff sell you receipt type tickets which got very creased and crumpled in my pockets. Where as card sized tickets stay in good condition and are easy to find in your pockets.

Maybe Northern Rail and First Trans Pennine Express (and whatever other TOCs are using these) should have gone for an updated machine that can still issue card sized tickets (like what SWT have done).

 

[185143]

Do what they do in Singapore issue disposable paper tickets with NFC capability.

Never mind Singapore, Scotland's very own Glasgow Subway does exactly that!

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[transmanche]

Because it's not just for National Rail passengers. London Overground, London Underground, London Trams, TfL Rail and the DLR all issue a not insignificant number of paper tickets every day to people who haven't got/don't want Oyster or Contactless Payment Cards, and Visitor Travelcards still come in paper form as well.

I suspect that in future TfL will end up issuing 'single-use' Oyster cards instead of magstripe tickets - much as the Dutch have 'single use' OV-chipkaarts. TfL already do so for One Day Bus & Tram Passes issued at Oyster Ticket Stops, so it's only a matter of time before they extend it to all tickets.

(Incidentally, according to this FoI request, TfL issued 101.4 million magstripe tickets in 2011. I think it's fair to say that number will have reduced dramatically, especially since the introduction of contactless card payments.)

 

[GarethC]

I was issued one of these yesterday by Greater Anglia on leaving Felixstowe. The printer looks like it has been set up to print sideways rather than along the stock. Interestingly on the way back the Guard was issuing tickets from his new machine on credit card stock. Do GA have both sets of printers?

Barcode readers at Ipswich worked perfectly there and back.

Gareth

 

[Bletchleyite]

That looks absolutely terrible - really unprofessional.

I thought they were meant to print along the white stripe?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Do Northern manage Leeds station? Or is it Network Rail?

Network Rail manage the station, Northern operate the ticket office and ticket barriers.

 

[headshot119]

That looks absolutely terrible - really unprofessional.

I thought they were meant to print along the white stripe?

I suspect the wrong type of stock was being used for that printer.

 

[jon0844]

That looks absolutely terrible - really unprofessional.

I thought they were meant to print along the white stripe?

Rather like normal tickets where the new design prints on the orange strips too.

Very poorly implemented and rolled out.

ATOC needed to take charge of this, and have strict dates for ALL things to be ready, not a bit here, a bit there, oh look that doesn't quite work with this printer, ooh the text is sideways....

What a joke!

For some context, I realise most issues are more annoying than anything else - but it is genuinely bad if you get a ticket and have to find staff to be let in/out of a station because a barrier isn't capable of reading it. I expect many people are trying to feed these paper ones into the machines? People who won't necessarily see the signs?

Do the tickets make it very clear how they are to be used? That it is a ticket, not a receipt etc?

 

[Crossover]

I suspect the wrong type of stock was being used for that printer.

Great, so we have a new ticketing "solution*" where different bits of it use differing stock - ain't that just marvellous! At least the inconsistencies are consistent!

* I refuse to call it a system - it isn't that good!

 

[KTHV]

This is what we have on Norwegian State Rail (NSB).

Ticket on the left is one you get from a TVM in station - the one on the right is when you buy one on the NSB shuttle bus when you land at a Norwegian Airport (as they offer a connection between airport and nearest train station)

 

[headshot119]

Great, so we have a new ticketing "solution*" where different bits of it use differing stock - ain't that just marvellous! At least the inconsistencies are consistent!

* I refuse to call it a system - it isn't that good!

The problem with the "solution" is that different operators have gone down different routes with it. The ATW Fujitsu system uses stock that is massive (in my opinion) and could surely have used smaller width stock.

What annoys me more is most of the information printed is fairly pointless.

 

[urbophile]

What happened to the promise on privatisation that we would still have a unified ticketing system? If they can't even get the printing right what hope is there of any other sort of co-ordination?

 

[PR1Berske]

What happened to the promise on privatisation that we would still have a unified ticketing system? If they can't even get the printing right what hope is there of any other sort of co-ordination?

I suspect approximately 500 RailUK members had to restrain themselves from replying to this post.