Transpennine Route Upgrade and Electrification updates

[Greybeard33]

Yes I misread the posters I think, it's Ordsall Lane which is closed on Sundays, so TPE is terminating from the east at Victoria.

Ordsall Lane Jn was not closed yesterday, nor next Sunday (23rd). The CLC line was/will be closed between Castlefield Jn and Urmston, with EMT services to Lime Street diverted via Ordsall Lane and the Chat Moss line.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Ordsall Lane Jn was not closed yesterday, nor next Sunday (23rd). The CLC line was/will be closed between Castlefield Jn and Urmston, with EMT services to Lime Street diverted via Ordsall Lane and the Chat Moss line.

Try again.
Ordsall Lane Jn closed on Sundays from 30 October then?

 

[gimmea50anyday]

The october and christmas closures are in connection with ordsall chord construction. Not TPE electrification per se although the benefits will obviously make a positive impact on the routes

 

[Greybeard33]

Try again.
Ordsall Lane Jn closed on Sundays from 30 October then?

Third time lucky!

 

[Ploughman]

Or is it a case of "It's not often you are right but you are wrong again?"

 

[childwallblues]

I know Stalybridge is part of Blackpool -Manchester - but anyone seen any work at all on this project recently?

Victoria-Stalybridge was/is a separate project.

 

[snowball]

Victoria-Stalybridge was/is a separate project.

But with the same target date, and with continuity of the wires apparently required to feed enough juice to Manchester-Euxton.

 

[snowball]

Press release: bridge completed at Ashton-u-L:

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...ge-over-railway-in-ashton-under-lyne-reopened

A new bridge in Greater Manchester has reopened after a £4m scheme by Network Rail to upgrade the old bridge, which runs above the railway.

The original century-old Richmond Street bridge in Ashton-under-Lyne had come to the end of its useful life and was in urgent need of replacement. As part of Network Rail’s Railway Upgrade Plan, the project, which started in April this year, replaced the structure with a new bridge which is expected to last for 125 years.

The 730 tonne bridge was installed during the August bank holiday using an 800 tonne crane and will help provide a better, more reliable rail service through Ashton-under-Lyne.

It reopened to motorists and pedestrians on Monday, 14 November.

Edit: I posted similarly on Skyscrapercity, and user Ashtonian pointed out that this bridge is over the Ashton to Denton line. That line is not in current electrification plans, so the item doesn't really belong in this thread.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Victoria-Stalybridge was/is a separate project.

They tie in as the same...

 

[Ploughman]

Some work is still being booked to the electrification even if the stretch involved is already wired.
http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/149...ver_rail_works_in_Dringhouses___Copmanthorpe/

 

[QueensCurve]

Apologies if this is the wrong thread but the December Mordern Railways has some depressing news of the Windermere branch electrification.

Northern also notes that electrification of the Windermere branch, which has formed a key part of its rolling stock and timetable planning, is not just delayed but 'as it stands today,there is no plan to electrify the Windermere Branch'

The suggestion is that four class 319s might be converted to "bi-mode".

 

[Domh245]

The suggestion is that four class 319s might be converted to "bi-mode".

I somehow can't see that happening. It'd be ludicrously expensive to convert such a small fleet to bi-modal operation, before you even consider the viability of converting the 319s to bi-modes. What will likely happen is either using a diesel in place of the 319, or a shuttle service.

 

[QueensCurve]

I somehow can't see that happening. It'd be ludicrously expensive to convert such a small fleet to bi-modal operation, before you even consider the viability of converting the 319s to bi-modes. What will likely happen is either using a diesel in place of the 319, or a shuttle service.

Very depressing that this simple electrifcation described a a "no brainer" won't happen.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

I somehow can't see that happening. It'd be ludicrously expensive to convert such a small fleet to bi-modal operation, before you even consider the viability of converting the 319s to bi-modes. What will likely happen is either using a diesel in place of the 319, or a shuttle service.

You know, they could always test a Class 230 on it when 002 is built

 

[urbophile]

Very depressing that this simple electrifcation described a a "no brainer" won't happen.

Well, it's in the Norf, innit!

 

[snowball]

Apologies if this is the wrong thread but the December Mordern Railways has some depressing news of the Windermere branch electrification.
The suggestion is that four class 319s might be converted to "bi-mode".

This (without the bi-mode reference and based on other sources than the MR item) has been discussed in a couple of other threads in the last week or two. I'm not convinced that there's any change from the position after the Hendy report a year ago, which was that the wiring of the Windermere branch (and Bolton to Wigan) would be developed to GRIP 3 stage by the end of CP5, and that an announcement about construction dates would be made then.

 

[Starmill]

This (without the bi-mode reference and based on other sources than the MR item) has been discussed in a couple of other threads in the last week or two. I'm not convinced that there's any change from the position after the Hendy report a year ago, which was that the wiring of the Windermere branch (and Bolton to Wigan) would be developed to GRIP 3 stage by the end of CP5, and that an announcement about construction dates would be made then.

I think the issue is that Northern sees this position as 'delayed' because they Hendy report had not been published when they submitted their bid.

 

[lejog]

I think the issue is that Northern sees this position as 'delayed' because they Hendy report had not been published when they submitted their bid.

In the Franchise Agreement the date of Windermere electrification (along with other infrastructure upgrades) is contained in an unpublished "Base Assumptions" document, which in my experience would be updated until the contract is signed. I doubt very much it would be acceptable to Northern that that date is tbc as Hendy currently says - they have to have a plan as a basis of their price. Northern are entitled to changes in the contract if that date is not met, but undoubtably the DfT will be looking for the cheapest solution.

 

[WatcherZero]

I somehow can't see that happening. It'd be ludicrously expensive to convert such a small fleet to bi-modal operation, before you even consider the viability of converting the 319s to bi-modes. What will likely happen is either using a diesel in place of the 319, or a shuttle service.

Take the same battery system used on the 379 trial? It should be up to operating a short branch line. Bet you the original equipment is even in storage somewhere after being removed from the 379.

 

[Greybeard33]

Take the same battery system used on the 379 trial? It should be up to operating a short branch line. Bet you the original equipment is even in storage somewhere after being removed from the 379.

The problem with that is that only 4 Windermere services daily are to be extended to Manchester - the rest will still be shuttles to Oxenholme. The turnround at Oxenholme is not long enough to recharge the batteries of an IPEMU, but it would be inefficient diagramming to use different units on the shuttle and the through services.

 

[Class377/5]

Apologies if this is the wrong thread but the December Mordern Railways has some depressing news of the Windermere branch electrification.



The suggestion is that four class 319s might be converted to "bi-mode".

Currently 319427 is being looked at to see if its possible. Another 3 units will be done if it proves successful for use on the Windermere branch, however it seems the word has reached the lne user group and they aren't happy at the idea.

Take the same battery system used on the 379 trial? It should be up to operating a short branch line. Bet you the original equipment is even in storage somewhere after being removed from the 379.

No its a bi-mode proposal with diesel engines on a 319.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Currently 319427 is being looked at to see if its possible. Another 3 units will be done if it proves successful for use on the Windermere branch, however it seems the word has reached the lne user group and they aren't happy at the idea.

Could an enhanced service be considered by converting a larger number of units? That would surely be popular.

Using all Class 319 bi-modes, you could run a two-hourly Manchester Airport-Lancaster (split)-Barrow and Windermere service, and then an interspersing shuttle to take both lines to an hourly fully-clockface service. Get it all nice and clockface, and more through services and more capacity (8-car running on the busy bit). Everyone wins.

Replace the seats with some good quality 2+2 InterCity-style ones with generous spacing (6 rows in each section rather than 7 with mixed airline and table) and potentially fit aircon (think Renatus) and there's potentially a very good unit indeed, much better than the ageing 2-car DMUs (or worse, pairs of dirty, run-down 153s that appear to infest the Furness line at present) that are otherwise likely to be used.

You could, as the units would be dedicated, introduce some strong "Lakes and Furness" branding to help promote the services.

But I guess the user groups would rather stamp their feet and scream "we want 185s", despite these being (a) rattly, noisy DMUs and (b) too short with an incredibly inefficient interior, and so having them resigns both lines to the present overcrowding issues continuing.

FWIW, I know cost is an issue, but if Windermere electrification were to be permanently off the agenda might an add-on to Abellio's Stadler bi-mode order be worth considering, again for both lines? They are an absolutely perfect fit for a bi-mode capable of 100/110mph on electricity and 60-70mph on diesel.

 

[Class377/5]

Could an enhanced service be considered by converting a larger number of units? That would surely be popular.

Using all Class 319 bi-modes, you could run a two-hourly Manchester Airport-Lancaster (split)-Barrow and Windermere service, and then an interspersing shuttle to take both lines to an hourly fully-clockface service. Get it all nice and clockface, and more through services and more capacity (8-car running on the busy bit). Everyone wins.

Replace the seats with some good quality 2+2 InterCity-style ones with generous spacing (6 rows in each section rather than 7 with mixed airline and table) and potentially fit aircon (think Renatus) and there's potentially a very good unit indeed, much better than the ageing 2-car DMUs (or worse, pairs of dirty, run-down 153s that appear to infest the Furness line at present) that are otherwise likely to be used.

You could, as the units would be dedicated, introduce some strong "Lakes and Furness" branding to help promote the services.

But I guess the user groups would rather stamp their feet and scream "we want 185s", despite these being (a) rattly, noisy DMUs and (b) too short with an incredibly inefficient interior, and so having them resigns both lines to the present overcrowding issues continuing.

FWIW, I know cost is an issue, but if Windermere electrification were to be permanently off the agenda might an add-on to Abellio's Stadler bi-mode order be worth considering, again for both lines? They are an absolutely perfect fit for a bi-mode capable of 100/110mph on electricity and 60-70mph on diesel.

AT the moment no-one is sure if its feasible but if it is, current plan is just 4 units for Windermere services.

New build are rather expensive so this is a cheaper alternative.

 

[Greybeard33]

AT the moment no-one is sure if its feasible but if it is, current plan is just 4 units for Windermere services.

New build are rather expensive so this is a cheaper alternative.

Northern's 195 order presumably includes units intended for the Barrow to Airport Connect services, so it would not make sense to spend more money on 319 bi-mode conversions for those services.

I suspect a more powerful diesel generator would be needed to achieve acceptable timings on the Furness line than on the Windermere branch.

 

[notlob.divad]

A new thread has been started for discussion of the class 319 conversion. http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=138660

Given it has very little to do (currently) with Transpennine electrification I suggest discussion is moved their

 

[QueensCurve]

Currently 319427 is being looked at to see if its possible. Another 3 units will be done if it proves successful for use on the Windermere branch, however it seems the word has reached the lne user group and they aren't happy at the idea.

What a surprise
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

AT the moment no-one is sure if its feasible but if it is, current plan is just 4 units for Windermere services.

New build are rather expensive so this is a cheaper alternative.

Lakes Line Rail User Group are very much on board with wanting electrification I can't seem them wanting 185s excepting that the line has refered to 15x for the time being.

 

[fflint]

Here's good idea that does away with having to fit Diesel engines to 319s. My thanks to PDG1949 (well done) who posted it originally on another thread.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=29695&d=1480645769

 

[Mordac]

But I guess the user groups would rather stamp their feet and scream "we want 185s", despite these being (a) rattly, noisy DMUs and (b) too short with an incredibly inefficient interior, and so having them resigns both lines to the present overcrowding issues continuing.

185s might be a lot of things, but they're neither rattly nor noisy. IMO, they're quieter than a lot of old EMUs.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

185s might be a lot of things, but they're neither rattly nor noisy. IMO, they're quieter than a lot of old EMUs.

They would be rattly, were it not for the fact that the sheer volume of passengers holds everything in place!

 

[IanXC]

Make of this what you will!

Network Rail will hold information events in Crossgates, Garforth and Selby next week to inform people living near the railway of vegetation removal work.

As part of the TransPennine Route Upgrade, Network Rail will remove vegetation from the side of the railway to allow the installation of overhead lines which carry the power for electric trains.
The work forms part of Network Rail’s Railway Upgrade Plan, to deliver a bigger, better railway for passengers and will mean quieter and cleaner trains for those living near the railway.

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...o-hold-public-information-event-in-crossgates