The annual "Boxing Day Trains" row.

[Dave1987]

Utter rubbish, some people are actually very happy to get away from their families at these times !
Also, you assume that everyone follows a Christian calendar (hint.......they don't !).

Well Christmas Day and Boxing Day are the only two days I can guarantee to see my family. If I'm forced to work Boxing Day because some people can't bear not to go shopping for two days a year then you'd better make it worth my while as it means I can't drink on Christmas Day evening and enjoy the evening with the rest of my family. Yes Christmas is for family, not for shopping. You had weeks and weeks to shop before Christmas. You may be perfectly happy to work Boxing Day but I assure there aren't enough like you to run a rail service without either being forced to or making the pay lucrative.

Same arguments every year without fail.......

 

[Bellbell]

Working on Boxing Day wouldn't bother me in the least. Done it before, happy to do it again, Not really sure why some people think it's so important. If you're not Christian then you're probably not bothered anyway, if you live on your own (or your partner is working) you may be happy to work and have time off later. Not sure why you keep mentioning shopping.

Eh? I mentioned shopping in response to your post in which you linked sports fixtures and shopping, and I inferred you were linking both of them to the running of Boxing Day services. I then went on to query whether my inference was correct. Genuinely, have you mistaken me for someone else?

Edited to say I've been through my posts on this thread, I only mentioned shopping after you did, and only to clarify that I didn't care what the reason for wanting Boxing Day services was, I didn't want to work them, and as said, to check if I'd understood your point. Play fair!

 

[radamfi]

It is nothing to do with shopping!

I drove from the Channel Tunnel to near Gatwick just now and whilst there was no delay, it was busy and there were certainly a lot of people travelling long distances. You can't seriously tell me all or even most of today's motorway traffic was going to and from shops!

 

[Andyh82]

Although I disagree with Boxing Day trains myself, I wonder if thining out the New Year's Day service in direct proportion to the introduction of Boxing Day services might be an option. I believe Northern run a full service on NYD which seems like overkill (not this year as its a Sunday)

I found the reporting of travel chaos on Christmas Eve by the BBC as over the top, negatively reporting the Paddington closure, interviewing people who turned up at the station ranting that the station was closed.

 

[6Gman]

This question is to all who support Christmas or Boxing Day working, and I don't expect answers, but in your heart of hearts, would you want to work those days?

Not Christmas Day, but Boxing Day - Yes.

(Indeed I was phoned in one Boxing Day - and I was a Mon-Fri 9-5 guy - and was happy to go in to work. {Some scrote had set fire to signalling and we needed an emergency timetable from 27th Dec.}

 

[6Gman]

Yes Christmas is for family, not for shopping. You had weeks and weeks to shop before Christmas.

And a lot of families want to spend Christmas Day with one part of the family, and Boxing Day with another part of the family.

And therefore need to travel to do so ...

 

[route:oxford]

Nope, a whole four months of chaos anywhere remotely near a retail park. Things were rather more civilized last year, and this year seems to be similar.

So essentially your Christmas was ruined, because for four months prior to Christmas you had difficulty accessing retail parks to shop...

You were part of the problem!

Use public transport to visit city centre shops, or shop online instead.

When is Boxing Day Sport going to be banned? It causes far worse road congestion that shops...

 

[deltic]

What's the arrangement for London Underground staff who work Boxing Day? I know they have had disputes in the past over it but seems to be accepted practice now.

 

[Class 170101]

Certain operators have contracual rights to run services on Boxing Day.

Greater Anglia for Stansted Airport
Heathrow Express - getting compensation this year for no trains as Paddington is closed
Southern to Gatwick Airport

 

[jimbo99]

Well Christmas Day and Boxing Day are the only two days I can guarantee to see my family. If I'm forced to work Boxing Day because some people can't bear not to go shopping for two days a year then you'd better make it worth my while as it means I can't drink on Christmas Day evening and enjoy the evening with the rest of my family. Yes Christmas is for family, not for shopping. You had weeks and weeks to shop before Christmas. You may be perfectly happy to work Boxing Day but I assure there aren't enough like you to run a rail service without either being forced to or making the pay lucrative.

Same arguments every year without fail.......

Funny really. Christmas Day/Boxing Day are for your family and you appear to object to people "shopping" on these days. "Christmas is for family, not for shopping".

All very principled. But then you spoil it by admitting even you have a price.

 

[Monty]

This annual boxing day thread does give me the giggles.

Simple fact is the demand isn't really there for anything that closely resembles even a Sunday service, if it had been services would have been reinstated over Christmas Day/Boxing Day long ago. Not's not even staffing that's the problem, no doubt there are plenty of railway staff who would opt to work over the holiday period if it was made worth their while. Though I do find it hilarious that some people on this forum seem to think it's outrageous that staff would demand a considerable premium (and lets face it doing it this way is far easier, cheaper and probably less painful than trying to force a change in everybody's work contracts anyway) to work these days despite it's in many of our contracts that specifically state we will not work these days. Though it's usually the same group of people who think a company should be able to change an employment contract at will with no negotiation or remuneration and yet those employees who are less than happy with the terms of their contracts should look for alternative employment elsewhere so go figure. But I digress I am running off on a tangent, simply put offer an good enough incentive and you will have staff to run services.

There probably is a small scale demand in local areas on specific routes. With Oxford Parkway and London Marylebone being a mentioned example, but a service over a TOCs entire network is unlikely to ever happen. And that is even before you consider Network Rail's agenda over the Christmas period too.

Labour and the Tories can argue toss about this subject all they want, fact is both have previously bleated about reintroducing services during this period in the past and yet both parties have done very little to implement anything.

 

[Andrewlong]

I drove up to Stratford-upon-Avon today from Reading on family business and most retailers were closed. The outlets that were open were coffee shops, pubs, restaurants and of course hotels.

If campaigners want to close shops on Boxing Day, then the same ought to apply to other retail outlets I mentioned above. Plus sporting events

I am fairly indifferent to shops opening on Boxing Day - some like to to start their sales on Boxing Day and there are some gullible members of the public who will queue very early for a 'bargain' and the media will whip out the same old cliches every year!

As to BBC reporting of the closures, I am sure ITV news took a similar stance. Journalism in the 24/7 social media age we live in is pretty poor and relies on website writers looking for trending stories on twitter, quickly collating a selection of complainers into a 'story' and then posting as frequently as they can before waiting for the keyboard warriors to kick in and perpetuate the myths.

I am not so sure whether we will get nation-wide Boxing Day trains back again. Major engineering works have to be carried out some time and the Christmas period is probably the only time available other than Easter.

 

[bramling]

So essentially your Christmas was ruined, because for four months prior to Christmas you had difficulty accessing retail parks to shop...

You were part of the problem!

Use public transport to visit city centre shops, or shop online instead.

When is Boxing Day Sport going to be banned? It causes far worse road congestion that shops...

When on earth did I say I visited a retail park? Read the original post again.

I didn't say christmas was ruined either. Hard to ruin something I don't even celebrate.

 

[Mag_seven]

just less than 30 mins to go folks - no doubt it will all be forgotten about until next year.

 

[bramling]

As I say every year this discussion comes up, let people decide if they wish to work. While it's a bit odd to have normal Sunday's rely on volunteers, I can't see a problem on Christmas Day or Boxing Day (engineering work aside).

Want to spend time with family? Do so. Your circumstances mean you'd happily work (perhaps to have other days off)? Do so.

If there are people queuing up to volunteer, then I don't see a problem.

I'm not bothered about shopping 5 minutes after Christmas, but there are clearly people who want to travel to/from family. I was at my parents, and we drove, and from the state of the roads (cars parked on green areas, verges, pavements and junctions) it's clear a lot of other people drove too.

Public transport wasn't an option unless we stayed another day (we arrived Christmas Eve) and I am always quite concerned about the number of people who are driving while still over the limit. We went for walks yesterday and today and I didn't even feel 100% safe on the pavement seeing how some people were driving.

Meanwhile, I get home tonight to hear about a car that crashed just up the road and the occupants doing a runner.

But, I accept that nobody seems to want to change things. Yet, there are going to be a lot of workers (many low paid) who had to get to work today and goodness knows how they did so.

I agree that the roads can be pretty unpleasant. However drunks are a liability on the railway too. The railway is also a hazardous environment. They are a liability to staff and other passengers. I'm sure the person who was knocked into the path of a train would be able to elaborate-had he survived.

Lots of 'customer incidents' on LU today. Maybe people elsewhere in Britain would be more civilised. Or maybe not?!

 

[jon0844]

I'm not saying we run trains solely for drunks, but I do think a Government or local authority needs to consider public transport provision to reduce drink driving, given seasonal stings often show over 10% are over the limit.

Plus there are the low paid workers etc.

Providing a service for shoppers is not top of my list.

 

[infobleep]

Maybe you won't but there are enough who will. Southern service seems to be running OK today. Infact probably the best service for quite a long time !

Surely not as National Rail Enquiries said there could be disruption due to the industrial dispute.

Was there disruption due to it or were they just painting a bleak picture because they do that every other day?

 

[infobleep]

The BBC have been running an awful anti rail campaign this Christmas. Everybody knows that in general, there are two railfree days per year, although there are some exceptions. Usually, there is plenty of prior notice and such reporting just brings out the moaning that this nation wins gold medals in truckloads.
By all means have a sensible debate as to what could be achieved in future years but take into account that this will come at additional cost to the government.

I guess one question that could be asked is why are there exceptions?

 

[Elecman]

is tomorrow officially the replacement Christmas Day Bank Holiday or the Boxing Day Bank Holiday?

 

[bramling]

I'm not saying we run trains solely for drunks, but I do think a Government or local authority needs to consider public transport provision to reduce drink driving, given seasonal stings often show over 10% are over the limit.

Plus there are the low paid workers etc.

Providing a service for shoppers is not top of my list.

If there is an issue with drink driving then that should be dealt with. Stiffer penalties, plus increasing the likelihood of detection. And I mean detection before it gets to the point of causing an incident. On the railway there is random testing, any safety critical employee can be tested at any time without notice. And it does happen, particularly at times where infringements are considered more likely. Where I work there were certainly tests last boxing day, most likely same this year.

Much easier to test car drivers too, a roadside breath test is a quick and easy process. Our process on the railway is rather more time consuming and labour intensive.

I object to paying tax to fund a taxi service for drunks.

 

[infobleep]

A Department for Transport spokeswoman said: "Deciding the level of service on specific days is a matter for train operators.

"But we know some passengers want to travel on Boxing Day, and that's why we have worked with the rail industry to ensure there are limited services on some franchises on that day, and that the scope for Boxing Day services is considered when we are planning future franchises."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38432018

So what consideration did they give for boxing day services on the South Western franchise that is up for renewal in 2017?

I remember one year when I had to work on the 27th. Ar the time only network away breaks existed for my journey. They were allowing an extra days validity because of there being no boxing day services. Unfortunately they weren't allowing it to be used early in the morning, so the extra days validity was useless to me as I had to be in work by 9. I also didn't drive or own a car. Not owning a car was something the government and local councils seemed keen on when I went to uni in the 90z, as I had to agree not to have a car whilst I lived in my halls of residence.

So I took the view if they don't want me to have a car then they need to provide good public transport. A view I still hold to this day.

 

[infobleep]

If trains were running on key routes, I reckon you'd get some usage...but nowhere near enough revenue to come anywhere close to covering costs, given the enhanced rate of pay needed to get people to volunteer to work. (My contract guarantees a minimum of double time for work done between 00:01 on Christmas Day and 23:59 on Boxing Day, for example).

So do they cover the costs on the Southern routes?

 

[Andrew1395]

What is Sturgon going to do about a lack of trains in Scotland on New Year's Day? If government wants trains to run they should make them part of the spec. Even if engineering works means the train service is a replacement bus.

 

[infobleep]

Why though? If people don't like their terms and conditions they can resign, no? That's what you said about railway terms and conditions around Christmas working. Sauce for the goose...





This is going to sound much harsher than I intend, but that's nice. It doesn't really matter whether you accept it or not. At the moment that's what the situation is.



So who should fund the services then? If you don't want to pay extra where do you expect the money to come from? If you don't want to pay extra you're clearly not that reliant on a train service operating.

The question is, who funds the services that do run and if those can funded, could any others be too?

 

[Caertroia]

To be honest, the bulk of passengers on LU today seem to be semi-vagrant drunk types. Apart from that a lot of the trains are running round very empty indeed.

Extraordinary how many of the people on this forum seem to really detest their customers, the people for whom, I assume, the railway system exists.

 

[infobleep]

Good.

I would really like to see the retail obsession stripped from Christmas. The low point was two years ago when for me Christmas was heavily marred by what became a retail frenzy from October right through to January.

The problem is that online retailers then get a head start. I'm not one for shopping on boxing day mind you. I did buy some concert tickets on Christmas day once though.

 

[infobleep]

Every year without fail this topic comes up, just like the news "stories" of chaos on the railways for the traveling public caused by engineering works. With electrification in utter tatters and the Rail minister repeatedly avoiding questions on when "deferred" sections would be completed you would have thought that Labour would be in full attack mode on that. TOCs can try and get rail staff to run a service on Boxing Day but it will cost them, and with all the major engineering work that is always planned it's not really worth even trying.

Yet Southern run services from Victoira to Brighton and south of Three Bridges it is only a two track railway line!

 

[infobleep]

When the kids are on holiday freight still runs, and thats the deal breaker....

You mean like the August shutdown that will affect London Waterloo? I admit no freight runs to Waterloo but the kids are on holiday.

However that is the best time to do it, when doing it in one large block.

 

[bramling]

Extraordinary how many of the people on this forum seem to really detest their customers, the people for whom, I assume, the railway system exists.

No, it's just reality.

There was a lot of trouble on LU today, customer incidents of various descriptions. Quite impressive considering how few people were actually travelling.

 

[jon0844]

You mean like the August shutdown that will affect London Waterloo? I admit no freight runs to Waterloo but the kids are on holiday.

However that is the best time to do it, when doing it in one large block.

I guess the difference is that if you have services and cancel them due to engineering work, you have the TOC or NR funding replacement buses.

If there are no trains, there's no alternative either.