The annual "Boxing Day Trains" row.

[Legzr1]

I was responding to another FM comment. Just saying if people choose to work why deny the the chance because others don't. Some people don't have families to spend time with. Working for then may make them happy.

If people really want to work then I suggest going to a company that supports it.

No point wanting free travel on VTEC if you work for FTPE.

Anecdotal perhaps but I'd suggest the figure of front line staff wanting to work is around 10% and that's with a fair sized incentive - even doubling that figure makes running a full service doubtful.

Oh, and how can people 'choose to work' if there is no service?

 

[Failed Unit]

We don't need a full service. My local area. Peterborough / Cambridge- London hourly stopping at all stations would probably be enough to test demand. It would need a few years to bed down.

I know there isn't any service at the moment, but demand is unknown. There may of course be non. No one on this forum really knows until someone tries it. Will it happen. Who knows.

 

[6Gman]

What if you're due back on the morning of the 26th? Or the evening of the 25th?

Then you probably won't go away in the first place!

 

[Legzr1]

Then you probably won't go away in the first place!

Bingo!

 

[AlterEgo]

What is so confusing and self-defeating about it? I'm not contracted to work which was why I spent it at home with family.

I'll let you know if/when the government/TOCs decide that!

I wasn't talking about this year, I was talking about how the railway might develop in the future. That's what the thread is about - potential Boxing Day trains in the future.

 

[SPADTrap]

I wasn't talking about this year, I was talking about how the railway might develop in the future. That's what the thread is about - potential Boxing Day trains in the future.

I consider having those two days off as a 'term and condition' so forgive my reluctance to surrender that. I'm still interested in what is self-defeating and confusing though, have I misunderstood?

 

[AlterEgo]

I consider having those two days off as a 'term and condition' so forgive my reluctance to surrender that. I'm still interested in what is self-defeating and confusing though, have I misunderstood?

Well it's a term of your contract now, but it's a bit naive to think that will definitely always be the case. I think a lot of us can foresee limited Boxing Day services within the next 5-10 years.

Don't forget your pay, holiday entitlement, and many other things are terms of your contract today, but I don't expect you think your pay will be the same in 5-10 years time.

 

[dk1]

I'd love to see your face when your employer says they have a God given right not to increase pay, holiday entitlement, pension contributions etc. due to the current wording of the contract. The changes you want might have to come at the price of the changes your employer wants.

No chance!! Sorry to disappoint.

 

[father_jack]

I consider having those two days off as a 'term and condition' so forgive my reluctance to surrender that. I'm still interested in what is self-defeating and confusing though, have I misunderstood?

Sorry for sticking me oar in this late in the thread but last Sunday was a "booked" Sunday (like most rail staff there's an expectation to work booked Sundays) for me 10 hours at £18 an hour now missing from next months payslip..............

 

[313103]

For quite a few years now many contract for new staff stipulate they have to use 2 days annual leave for christmas day and boxing day. So if you work on either of these two days you will automatically get an extra day off to use when you want.

The latter part of your comment is not quite accurate, whilst companies have made staff take a annual leave day for the days your not working over christmas (infact applies to all bank holidays that you dont work). The company im now employed by lets you know you must hold back Annual leave for Christmas day and Boxing day if your rostered to work, now if they introduce working on Christmas or Boxing day, i cannot take those days when i then want them as i am not permitted to carry leave over into another year (the only exception is if i have been long term sick and not been able to take the leave) the policy is Leave must be taken in the year it is accrued, and if exception has happened i must use them up by 31 March the following year so not really allowed to take the leave when i want it.


With regard to working Boxing day, if your going to bring it in then fine i dont have a problem with it, but as my Christmas holidays would all ready be ruined by having to work Boxing day i would expect that Christmas day is treated as normal as well. I would also expect my local bus company to be operating as well.

It is a nonsense people saying there would only need to be reduced service, for those already in work it doesnt matter they have still had to come in, might as well run a normal Saturday service.

 

[LAX54]

The latter part of your comment is not quite accurate, whilst companies have made staff take a annual leave day for the days your not working over christmas (infact applies to all bank holidays that you dont work). The company im now employed by lets you know you must hold back Annual leave for Christmas day and Boxing day if your rostered to work, now if they introduce working on Christmas or Boxing day, i cannot take those days when i then want them as i am not permitted to carry leave over into another year (the only exception is if i have been long term sick and not been able to take the leave) the policy is Leave must be taken in the year it is accrued, and if exception has happened i must use them up by 31 March the following year so not really allowed to take the leave when i want it.


With regard to working Boxing day, if your going to bring it in then fine i dont have a problem with it, but as my Christmas holidays would all ready be ruined by having to work Boxing day i would expect that Christmas day is treated as normal as well. I would also expect my local bus company to be operating as well.

It is a nonsense people saying there would only need to be reduced service, for those already in work it doesnt matter they have still had to come in, might as well run a normal Saturday service.

And there is the problem, to make it worth the TOC's while they need to run a half decent service, and have quite a few to fill the seats, but that is doubtful, in order to get to the Station they would need to drive, if they get in the car, there is 95% chance, if not higher to drive door to door, there are those that could get a taxi. but would not wish to pay the 'extra' charged for the 26th.
There may well be some that would like a service to run on the 25th, but in reality athough there are a couple of hundred on here that says we ought to, I do not think that is reflected in the outside world
The 26th to make it work, needs to be a 'normal' day, and everyone back to work
Its all very well saying that we did not have trains on a Sunday on such and such route, now we do and they are full, That is not Christmas !

 

[74A]

The company im now employed by lets you know you must hold back Annual leave for Christmas day and Boxing day if your rostered to work, now if they introduce working on Christmas or Boxing day, i cannot take those days when i then want them as i am not permitted to carry leave over into another year (the only exception is if i have been long term sick and not been able to take the leave) the policy is Leave must be taken in the year it is accrued, and if exception has happened i must use them up by 31 March the following year so not really allowed to take the leave when i want it.

Yes but you won't have to hold a day back if Boxing Day becomes a working day. You can take that day anytime in the year. Some people might prefer to have an extra day on a nice warm beach and work on the 26 December instead.

I not saying you will but it will be an incentive for some. I know some people who find it annoying they have 31 days holiday but have to hold 2 back.

 

[LAX54]

All this fuss over Boxing day, when there is really little demand, when in another thread I see...that there is no bus service (and some trains) in quite a big part of the UK today Sunday Jan 1st ! and today is a more normal day than the 26th

 

[bramling]

Yes but you won't have to hold a day back if Boxing Day becomes a working day. You can take that day anytime in the year. Some people might prefer to have an extra day on a nice warm beach and work on the 26 December instead.

I not saying you will but it will be an incentive for some. I know some people who find it annoying they have 31 days holiday but have to hold 2 back.

That's the nice thing about getting over 70 days holiday per year, don't have to make compromises like that!

 

[6Gman]

All this fuss over Boxing day, when there is really little demand, when in another thread I see...that there is no bus service (and some trains) in quite a big part of the UK today Sunday Jan 1st ! and today is a more normal day than the 26th

Really?

Last time I caught a train on Boxing Day, on the WCML, we were Full & Standing both ways.

Just saying.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Once again, people are ignoring Merseyrail...


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[northwichcat]

No chance!! Sorry to disappoint.

So if the TOC said the choice is:
a) 0.5% pay rise every year and all other terms remain the same for the duration of the franchise
b) 5% pay rise every year for the franchise duration and 3 extra days holidays but 26th December becomes working day

You'd reject (b) and be happy with (a)?

 

[LAX54]

So if the TOC said the choice is:
a) 0.5% pay rise every year and all other terms remain the same for the duration of the franchise
b) 5% pay rise every year for the franchise duration and 3 extra days holidays but 26th December becomes working day

You'd reject (b) and be happy with (a)?

I think the Unions would go for a tweaked version of a)

 

[74A]

All this fuss over Boxing day, when there is really little demand, when in another thread I see...that there is no bus service (and some trains) in quite a big part of the UK today Sunday Jan 1st ! and today is a more normal day than the 26th

There is very little demand for the last trains of the day monday to thursday perhaps we should not run them either.

 

[furnessvale]

There is very little demand for the last trains of the day monday to thursday perhaps we should not run them either.

There are also a lot less people on any train from Manchester to Buxton on its departure from Dove Holes than were on it in Manchester. Perhaps we should turn them all back at Dove Holes......maybe Chapel.....maybe Whaley....ad infinitum.

 

[Bellbell]

There is very little demand for the last trains of the day monday to thursday perhaps we should not run them either.

Works for me!

 

[Ianigsy]

My father and I nearly used the Merseyrail service between Birkenhead North and Conway Park to get to the Tranmere-Macclesfield football on Boxing Day - the only reason we didn't was because of a gap in the 464 bus service which would have got us to the match either 65 minutes or 5 minutes before kick off.

I think Boxing Day has changed during my lifetime- it's now the start of the sales, and that particular genie seems to be well and truly out of the bottle. It seems to justify the outlay on a service based around shopping hours, whether that's bus or train. Personally I've had enough horrendous claustrophobic "family" Boxing Days sitting around aimlessly in an uncle or cousin's house and putting up with other people's choices of television, food and drink not to want to have to inflict that on anybody else, but then I think everybody's opinion is based on their own experience!

 

[infobleep]

Yet trains are the 'rip-off' according to the media?

Maybe the alternatives would be considered an even great rip-off by the media?

 

[philthetube]

Then you probably won't go away in the first place!

Then your employer knows there are no trains and either provides alternatives or uses someone else.

 

[bramling]

My father and I nearly used the Merseyrail service between Birkenhead North and Conway Park to get to the Tranmere-Macclesfield football on Boxing Day - the only reason we didn't was because of a gap in the 464 bus service which would have got us to the match either 65 minutes or 5 minutes before kick off.

I think Boxing Day has changed during my lifetime- it's now the start of the sales, and that particular genie seems to be well and truly out of the bottle. It seems to justify the outlay on a service based around shopping hours, whether that's bus or train. Personally I've had enough horrendous claustrophobic "family" Boxing Days sitting around aimlessly in an uncle or cousin's house and putting up with other people's choices of television, food and drink not to want to have to inflict that on anybody else, but then I think everybody's opinion is based on their own experience!

That's fine then, let's make it a normal working day. Then *everyone* works. That's fair. I'd be quite happy with that.

What I object to is the self-centred "I don't want to work but I expect everything to be available for me" attitude.

 

[infobleep]

If you're due back at work on the morning of the 27th?

(My main concern isn't for people who want to go to the shops or a football match. It's for people who want to spend Christmas with loved ones who may live far away, but need to travel home before the 27th. And - yes - that was less of an issue this year as the 27th was a Bank Holiday, but in many years it isn't.)

Indeed. You end up having to pay a lot more because rail companies won't relax the peak restrictions Monday to Friday, even though they are practically running a Saturday service. I know South Wwst Trains say they run additional services but it seems from my brief look into this, that it is just some Saturday services extended further south. Not sure if any additional trains are run, expect if existing services are strengthened. I'm not saying their is a need for other trains, just that it costs passengers more because they can't travel on 26th.

 

[dk1]

So if the TOC said the choice is:
a) 0.5% pay rise every year and all other terms remain the same for the duration of the franchise
b) 5% pay rise every year for the franchise duration and 3 extra days holidays but 26th December becomes working day

You'd reject (b) and be happy with (a)?

Totally irrelevant question.

 

[dk1]

Once again, people are ignoring Merseyrail...


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We love you really Merseyrail. Ok?

 

[Bletchleyite]

We love you really Merseyrail. Ok?

My point relates more to things like "a limited service won't work" (it does), "people won't volunteer" (they did) etc.


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[Bletchleyite]

That's fine then, let's make it a normal working day. Then *everyone* works. That's fair. I'd be quite happy with that.



What I object to is the self-centred "I don't want to work but I expect everything to be available for me" attitude.

What's wrong with the idea of "those who wish to work do, those who don't wish to don't"?


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