Mintona
Established Member
Just done half an hour (unpaid) overtime so Virgin could stop 1H77. Just as well they did too, plenty of passengers got off!
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West Coast Mainline:Severe Problems
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Chilled Phill
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175001
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Speed restrictions between Crewe and Scotland, and Crewe and Holyhead tonight, due to the weather.
Chilled Phill
Member
I don't think £8m could quite fund building a brand new line to the north. Besides, the current line is liable enough.
Like some have said, Network Rail couldn't have foreseen the Congleton Crash, the Stafford Aircraft crash, various problems in the south and the poor weather in Crewe today.
The_Rail_WAy
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"The WCML has been hit by a series of un-avoidable accidents, unfortunatecoincedences and freaks of nature that simply can not be avoided, all occuring justafter the upgrade. Could'nt be more badly timed in terms of publicity and spin."
175001
On Moderation
The big loss to us is the fast train from London; I understand the 1630 was to call at Preston only. The Evening Times don't like this. They actually blamed this on the incompetence of Virgin along with all the other chaos. And the article read like we're losing out in this whole thing. Get your facts right. :roll:
It's a shame that it has had to come to this, but it is 100% the right decision in my opinion. I hope the timetable settles down to allow the changes to happen in March or April, but for now we need to concentrate on getting what we've got working reasonably well.
If there's still problems, I wonder if the best option in the short term would be to have the Manchester and Birmingham services running half-hourly off peak; just to let the timetables settle in. Certainly they easily survive with this loss whereas cutting Glasgow and Liverpool services would be harder to justify.
It's a shame that it has had to come to this, but it is 100% the right decision in my opinion. I hope the timetable settles down to allow the changes to happen in March or April, but for now we need to concentrate on getting what we've got working reasonably well.
If there's still problems, I wonder if the best option in the short term would be to have the Manchester and Birmingham services running half-hourly off peak; just to let the timetables settle in. Certainly they easily survive with this loss whereas cutting Glasgow and Liverpool services would be harder to justify.
O L Leigh
Established Member
Ah, but that was in the good old days before Pendo's and their weird couplers. When you had a "Can" or "Skoda" on a Mk2/3 rake you could use any old loco to drag it around. Now there aren't the locos or the time to just divert the whole lot off the wires.
O L Leigh
I don't think £8m could quite fund building a brand new line to the north. Besides, the current line is liable enough.
Like some have said, Network Rail couldn't have foreseen the Congleton Crash, the Stafford Aircraft crash, various problems in the south and the poor weather in Crewe today.
Try £8bn which was spent on WCRM. Cost of HS line is bandied about as £30bn - WCRM involved renewing permanent way, track, signalling, OHLE, points over 3/4 tracks for most of the length. A High speed line would probably be 2 lines, few junctions. And starting froma c elan slate with no 'trying to shove work into 54hr possessions.
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I still don't buy this one. Mk4's did well at Heck & Hatfield given the speed and the items they hit - OHLE uprights etc. Modern rolling stock is fairly good safety wise (for the speed it is rated to). Interesting that the aluminium pendo's need smaller windows to achieve similar crash protection to the steel Mk4's but are far less easy to repair.
The incidents that happened with the West Coast mainline a few weeks ago may now be old news now but I'm still seeing many delays and I think this is reflective of a system that is seriously struggling.
Morning Trains from Bushey (south of Watford) to Euston (London Midland) are constantly late, averaging about 7 minutes late. This morning's 08:22 didn't get to Bushey until 08:32 and then to everyone's dismay (and the station master's huge embarrassment) didn't even stop. 10 minutes later we were picked up by a 'Special' train, an unscheduled fast train that appears to be picking up missed stations. As is the norm these days the train was packed out.
This new timetable has been an unmitigated disaster IMO and I don't expect any return to normal on-time trains for the forseeable future.
Morning Trains from Bushey (south of Watford) to Euston (London Midland) are constantly late, averaging about 7 minutes late. This morning's 08:22 didn't get to Bushey until 08:32 and then to everyone's dismay (and the station master's huge embarrassment) didn't even stop. 10 minutes later we were picked up by a 'Special' train, an unscheduled fast train that appears to be picking up missed stations. As is the norm these days the train was packed out.
This new timetable has been an unmitigated disaster IMO and I don't expect any return to normal on-time trains for the forseeable future.
Mintona
Established Member
Points failure at Edgeley Jcn this afternoon too 
RochdalePioneers
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Its just teething problems. Did my 1st West Coast run in nearly a decade this afternoon on an ALR work have kindly furnished me with.
What a transformation! I took the 16:40 Euston - Manchester to get me home directly to Teesside. 1st 2nd and 3rd impressions of the Pendolino were positive - comfy, well spaced seats, a smooth ride and an upmarket interior. The seats with no window are fine if you want to read or work, and far from being claustrophobic the narrow windows are fine. Nor does the tilt profile seem to cut into shoulder space as it does on mk4s.
And the speed of the things! OK so 140mph would be better (how much £ to complete PUG2?) but as it is they don't half shift. 2 hours 7 to Manchester via Crewe is bloody quick, and I look forward to my run to Glasgow on Friday. Providing the wires stay up of course!
What a transformation! I took the 16:40 Euston - Manchester to get me home directly to Teesside. 1st 2nd and 3rd impressions of the Pendolino were positive - comfy, well spaced seats, a smooth ride and an upmarket interior. The seats with no window are fine if you want to read or work, and far from being claustrophobic the narrow windows are fine. Nor does the tilt profile seem to cut into shoulder space as it does on mk4s.
And the speed of the things! OK so 140mph would be better (how much £ to complete PUG2?) but as it is they don't half shift. 2 hours 7 to Manchester via Crewe is bloody quick, and I look forward to my run to Glasgow on Friday. Providing the wires stay up of course!
Chilled Phill
Member
Indeed. The Manc-Crewe-Euston trains are much slower than Manc-Stoke-Euston trains which is primarily why those trains go via the Potteries instead of via Crewe.
Also, just seen this in both a magazine and my timetable. If you get onto a Manchester bound train at either Sandbach or Holmes Chapel which goes via the Airport, you'll arrive two minutes earlier than the service which goes via Stockport towards Manchester which calls at the South Cheshire stations 20 minutes after the airport train. Nice.
D306
Established Member
RochdalePioneers
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http://www.virgintrains.co.uk/img/timetables/200812/Virgin_Trains_B.pdf
16:40 to Manc arr 18:49. I was on the platform at 18:47, so 2 hours 7 minutes. If you look at the timetable they all take either 2:07/2:08/2:09 depending on stops. Via Crewe is just as quick now as via Stoke - whats the line speed past Sandbach etc? Booked for just 16 minutes Crewe to Wilmslow.
16:40 to Manc arr 18:49. I was on the platform at 18:47, so 2 hours 7 minutes. If you look at the timetable they all take either 2:07/2:08/2:09 depending on stops. Via Crewe is just as quick now as via Stoke - whats the line speed past Sandbach etc? Booked for just 16 minutes Crewe to Wilmslow.
Chilled Phill
Member
Past Sandbach is 80mph, iirc. Increasing to the triple digits as you enter the mid-Cheshire part of the Crewe-Manc line.
Fair enough then - I must remember to travel via Crewe for variety when next humanly possible!
Mintona
Established Member
Past Sandbach is 80mph, iirc. Increasing to the triple digits as you enter the mid-Cheshire part of the Crewe-Manc line.
It is 110mph for much of it now. Not entirely sure how much of it, but for sure Holmes Chapel - Alderley Edge.
Chilled Phill
Member
It's actually 110mph just after Sandbach.
My bad, the sign is far enough from the northern end of the two platforms at Sandbach to make the two "1"s look like an 8.
I've stuck this here, again to keep all the VHF stuff together.
I don't think Virgin know yet; they want them to start "at a later date". However, I saw a sign saying that they are reviewing the situation frequently to get the services on when VHF is more reliable. To be honest, it seems to have settled down now which is a good sign (then again, should I have just said that?) and it's in their best interests to get the full timetable up as soon as possible so I think it will be quite soon.
I don't think Virgin know yet; they want them to start "at a later date". However, I saw a sign saying that they are reviewing the situation frequently to get the services on when VHF is more reliable. To be honest, it seems to have settled down now which is a good sign (then again, should I have just said that?) and it's in their best interests to get the full timetable up as soon as possible so I think it will be quite soon.
Via Crewe always used to be the quickest route - that's the way top services like the Manchester Pullman went (hauled by an 86). Then Stoke line was upgraded, but now so has the Wilmslow - Crewe line. Notices on the line access points at road bridges warn lineside workers of increased line speeds to 110 mph.
Besides, the route via Alderley and Holmes Chapel is so much more scenic that the grotty Potteries!
Sub 2 hours Wilmslow to Euston now! Excellent!
CS
Besides, the route via Alderley and Holmes Chapel is so much more scenic that the grotty Potteries!
Sub 2 hours Wilmslow to Euston now! Excellent!
CS
Chilled Phill
Member
No mention on the Sandbach countryside, I see.
What's wrong with the marshes to the south of the station?
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