Virgin Trains East Coast plan 'customer zones' + RMT strike action SUSPENDED

[Starmill]

So - they were all doing their best, in unusual circumstances.

IMO they do it safely, professionally and appropriately or they should cancel the train. Or get out of the business of running trains.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Sounds like I missed a fun day on the ECML, pitty I'm in Kent at the moment!

big question though is was the action worth it?

 

[TUC]

Isn't the right response to industrial action to make sure that there's no industrial action taking place?



Anyway, today has been... Well an odd day. I was handed a flapjack randomly as I boarded a train at York this afternoon. I had almost forgotten that there would be no onboard catering. The screens still say there is a Foodbar and Trolley service, and a complimentary service in First Class on all trains that I saw.

Onboard, the guard was VTEC's Commercial Access Manager. He told us that tickets would be checked and that there were no catering facilities available other than complimentary snacks which he described as being in the food bar, but they were actually in boxes on the floor. Nonetheless free water and crisps were very welcome. I had to stand in a vestibule for most of my journey, and I saw the guard hand over. The new guard, unlike the old, had a Britain Runs On Rail badge but no lanyard or name tag. He was informed that a fire extinguisher was missing from the DVT. He looked very flustered too, and tried to make an announcement apologising for there delay. When he'd finished I asked him if he'd been trying to make an announcement. He said yes and I pointed out that there had been no sound from the speakers. He started to say "Oh yes, they don't always work" when I pointed out the switch in the panel to use the PA. And I'm not exactly familiar with a Mk4 guard's panel. The outgoing guard said a fire extinguisher was missing from the DVT too, which doesn't sound the best. A ticket check did materialise in the form of a man with a posh suit, who appeared to be some sort of revenue managemer. I asked him if he was a plain clothes revenue protection officer, he replied that he wasn't, but that he wasn't just some guy asking to see my ticket, he did work for the train company and it was only down to the strike that he was checking tickets today. I heard someone, no idea who, shout scab on one occasion at someone else. This particular guard was stopped in the middle of dispatching his train by a passenger on the platform who wanted to know how many coaches it had. Even though he wasn't getting on it. The guard's response was "Err 9 this one, I think."

Other highlights included a door being unlocked and then locked in my face in an HST (later re-opened, judging by orange lights), platform staff at Newark North Gate accidentally speaking into the PA rather than into their radio to colueages ("It looks like an HST coming in, I can't do it by myself " - also never seen anyone dispatch a train in high heels before). Some services I saw had First Class hosts, whose badges named them as station managers.

I travelled on the 0700 Leeds-KX and all was calm and professional. I suspect it's a caae of if you come with a mindset of looking for a problem you'll find one.

 

[Robertj21a]

IMO they do it safely, professionally and appropriately or they should cancel the train. Or get out of the business of running trains.

I think many people would consider Stagecoach to be one of the most capable and professional operators of trains (and buses) - the last thing we need is for them 'to get out of the business of running trains'.

 

[DarloRich]

Question - who was it manning the trains yesterday? I was out and about and it seemed VTEC ran a full service.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Question - who was it manning the trains yesterday? I was out and about and it seemed VTEC ran a full service.

Managers from VTEC, managers from South West Trains and managers from East Midlands Trains.

I've no problem with managers running trains if they're suitably experienced and qualified. But I've no tolerance whatsoever for the "ah well, we did our best to keep the show running, let's all muck in" nonsense. You're either qualified and competent or you're not, and if you're not you shouldn't be anywhere near the railway.

It's a shame that the ORR have neither interest nor incentive to properly investigate this type of thing.

 

[XDM]

I travelled on the 0700 Leeds-KX and all was calm and professional. I suspect it's a caae of if you come with a mindset of looking for a problem you'll find one.

Could not put it better myself. TUC's non de plume might be a give away too. We travelled ECML virgin yesterday & saw no problems. In fact Guard was equal to East coast best standards.

 

[ainsworth74]

Of course one assumes that there will have been some regular guards working trains (i.e. those not in the RMT) as well as VTEC guards managers (who you'd expect to be fully competent with VTEC traction/procedures) so some services will have run very much as normal.

Managers from VTEC, managers from South West Trains and managers from East Midlands Trains.

I am led to believe from someone who works for SWT that none of their managers were involved this time.

 

[FordFocus]

So what training have these managers had then?

 

[Clip]

So what training have these managers had then?

Well probably dispatch training and on using the door panel and probably most of what a guard gets trained to do I would imagine.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

What did the industrial action actually achieve?

 

[Carlisle]

What did the industrial action actually achieve?

I'd say it was mainly intended as warning of the unions power and determination should a cash strapped VTEC be tempted to implement far more radical restructuring in future leading maybe to cuts in catering provision, removing dispatch roles from conductors etc

 

[Starmill]

I think many people would consider Stagecoach to be one of the most capable and professional operators of trains (and buses) - the last thing we need is for them 'to get out of the business of running trains'.

So why are they using staff who give the impression they don't really know what they're doing?

Most passengers would probably have been very happy because their train wasn't cancelled and they were being given free snacks and water. Unfortunately, anyone who was actually paying attention to the operation would have been as convinced as I was that standards were not up to scratch.

Based on what I saw I would say with confidence that some of these people were unsuitable for their job. If a guard is so flustered taking over a train that he doesn't know how to use the PA and isn't quite sure what the formation is, how are they going to react to an emergency?

 

[Clip]

So why are they using staff who give the impression they don't really know what they're doing?

Most passengers would probably have been very happy because their train wasn't cancelled and they were being given free snacks and water. Unfortunately, anyone who was actually paying attention to the operation would have been as convinced as I was that standards were not up to scratch.

Trouble is most people if not all who were on that train wouldnt have cared if standards were not up to what you may deem 'normal. They just were happy they could use the service during a strike.

Based on what I saw I would say with confidence that some of these people were unsuitable for their job. If a guard is so flustered taking over a train that he doesn't know how to use the PA and isn't quite sure what the formation is, how are they going to react to an emergency?

Maybe it was different from what they knew? This happens to drivers of trains too yet I dont see you asking the same questions when those incidents arise and how they would deal with an emergency when they stop shorter than their train length?

 

[AlterEgo]

So why are they using staff who give the impression they don't really know what they're doing?

They're using management to cover a strike, it's either that or cancel the train.

If you have genuine safety concerns (a serious matter) then you should report them to the relevant authority.

 

[Starmill]

They're using management to cover a strike, it's either that or cancel the train.

If you have genuine safety concerns (a serious matter) then you should report them to the relevant authority.

Passengers aren't given much information to go on if they have a "safety concern". Also you're very patronising and I was making a serious point about people who clearly don't have enough experience not being suitable generally. There is a wider point to be made there rather than you telling me what I should do as if I have incorrectly identified one.

 

[AlterEgo]

Passengers aren't given much information to go on if they have a "safety concern". Also you're very patronising and I was making a serious point about people who clearly don't have enough experience not being suitable generally. There is a wider point to be made there rather than you telling me what I should do as if I have incorrectly identified one.

It's correct that passengers generally have no idea about where they should report a safety concern. But, as an enthusiast, I'm sure you do, so I was simply encouraging you to report what you'd seen. I have no idea if you incorrectly identified a safety concern; I wasn't there.

It's not patronising to point out that the only alternative to using management cover that VT had was to cancel trains. Safety critical staff will all have had training and a medical, and guards will all have to sign the route. It's generally been my experience that where managers cover trains this results in more lost time incidents. Whether this translates into safety, I've no idea.

It's about risk appetite; how much riskier should an operation be before you cancel it? That is a more open ended question.

 

[Robertj21a]

So why are they using staff who give the impression they don't really know what they're doing?

Most passengers would probably have been very happy because their train wasn't cancelled and they were being given free snacks and water. Unfortunately, anyone who was actually paying attention to the operation would have been as convinced as I was that standards were not up to scratch.

Based on what I saw I would say with confidence that some of these people were unsuitable for their job. If a guard is so flustered taking over a train that he doesn't know how to use the PA and isn't quite sure what the formation is, how are they going to react to an emergency?

Clearly, you took a great deal of notice of everything that the staff were doing throughout the trip in order to highlight that 'standards were not up to scratch'. To be honest, I could probably say that it's no different to quite a good proportion of trains I travel on.
You mention that you can 'say with confidence that some of these people were unsuitable for their job'. Before we take this any further can you clarify what role you undertake on the railway. Thank you.

 

[jamesontheroad]

Sky News reports:

RMT union says workers on Virgin Trains East Coast are to stage a 48-hour strike from 28 April in a row over jobs and the role of guards

Here comes the fun part...

(Moderators please feel free to delete if duplicated, thanks!)

 

[gavin]

48 hour strike announced for April 28th and 29th in a row over the role of guards and jobs

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ff-strike.html?ito=social-twitter_dailymailUK

 

[Suraggu]

Its ok. Stagecoach had SWT, EMT and VTEC managers trained to be 'contingency' Guards so that the core route from London to Leeds/Edinburgh can run a near normal service.

 

[gavin]

VTEC have not made any comment on the strike yet as they haven't received formal notice from the RMT

 

[ChathillMan]

VTEC have not made any comment on the strike yet as they haven't received formal notice from the RMT

I was on a VTEC service yesterday afternoon with a rather chatty member of staff. They were talking about the new catering crew regime and the problems with it and general crew/rota issues.

Didn't mention a ballot at all, just how things "would be sorted by the end of May"

 

[Blindtraveler]

End of May? That soon? Wow! Wondering if this proposed/confirmed/whatever it is action is just over guarding and jobs or if the above changes to onboard customer service crewing arrangements, extra possible work on guards/TM's as a result and other such related issues are also in the mix this time?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39586686

The union said it wanted "explicit clarification" from Virgin on the future role of guards.
Virgin said it planned to run a "near normal" timetable during the planned industrial action.
The company, which operates services between London, north-east England and Scotland, stressed there would be no driver-only trains and changes to staff roles would have a "zero impact on safety".

Seems pretty pointless action to me.
It seems to be a means of keeping the wider dispute in the public eye.

 

[wingsoveryorks]

Sky News reports:



Here comes the fun part...

(Moderators please feel free to delete if duplicated, thanks!)

I have to say. Nearly every VTEC member of staff I speak to are pretty pee'd off. Some even want to work for Northern. Must be a shocker of a company is all I can say.

Is the 29th not the first day of the 'Tour De Yorkshire' cycle race ? Get ready for the RMT to announce further strikes on Northern.

Oh I am a cynic.

 

[Carlisle]

I have to say. Nearly every VTEC member of staff I speak to are pretty pee'd off. Some even want to work for Northern. Must be a shocker of a company is all I can say.

Ok so try finding a job in a retail outlet, cafe or coffee shop that pays similar to the wages of VTEC

 

[ChathillMan]

End of May? That soon? Wow! [emoji38] Wondering if this proposed/confirmed/whatever it is action is just over guarding and jobs or if the above changes to onboard customer service crewing arrangements, extra possible work on guards/TM's as a result and other such related issues are also in the mix this time?

Reading between the lines it sounded like they've got a load of crew marked as spare (more than before). They also remarked that some Tm's will tell the other crew what they are doing and some "leave it up to us"

A lot of conspiracy theories too "we know why they are doing this", i said "its maybe to get you ready for he new trains so you can hit the ground running" That was met with a "hmmmm". I said if they wanted to replace onboard crew they'd put vending machines on trains instead of staff. On some VTEC services crewed by Newcastle, that wouldn't be so bad...

 

[4973]

Not strictly on-topic but I was chatting to a VTEC driver at Peterborough during Monday's disruption and he claimed that there were going to be major staff scheduling issues once driver training for the new stock started as they were tight on numbers as it is .

 

[westv]

VTEC have not made any comment on the strike yet as they haven't received formal notice from the RMT

I've just had an email from VTEC.