Caledonian Sleeper discussion

[Far north 37]

We're going back some now but I once worked for a company called James Scott in Great Yarmouth. My job was to supply personnel for oil rigs, including booking train tickets for the workers, and accommodation. Like you said, many were from the North East, and I probably booked more train tickets from Newcastle than anywhere else. Grimsby and Glasgow were popular too for some reason.

james scott are now part of amec and still working in the north sea. and as you were saying mate even down in great yarmouth they would of been employing guys from all over the uk not quite sure where this having to live 2-3 hours from the heliport rule came from but guys from all over the uk have mobillised from different heliports all over the uk since the start of the industry

 

[TimboM]

Just left 83L according to RTT

A 90 would recover most of that (with a 100mph rock'n'roll ride into the bargain). As it's a 92, I reckon about half will be recovered (assuming no further issues and a clear run).

EDIT: Might revise that prediction - lost another 9 mins between Euston and Watford

...and now diverted via Northampton and 111L at Hillmorton Jnc.

 

[Far north 37]

A 90 would recover most of that (with a 100mph rock'n'roll ride into the bargain). As it's a 92, I reckon about half will be recovered (assuming no further issues and a clear run).

whats likely to be working into euston in the morning loco wise

 

[GW43125]

A 90 would recover most of that (with a 100mph rock'n'roll ride into the bargain). As it's a 92, I reckon about half will be recovered (assuming no further issues and a clear run).

There's not really any slack in the splitting at EDB is there?

EDIT-Lost another couple of mins, appears to have been thrown onto the slows at Wembley, and is now rather close behind a class 4 freight. Now 90L and seemingly losing more.

 

[anti-pacer]

james scott are now part of amec and still working in the north sea. and as you were saying mate even down in great yarmouth they would of been employing guys from all over the uk not quite sure where this having to live 2-3 hours from the heliport rule came from but guys from all over the uk have mobillised from different heliports all over the uk since the start of the industry

They were part of AMEC when I worked there back in 1992. I remember the logo.

The heliport we used was at Beccles, and the only people we had within 2-3 hours generally lived very locally.

I remember a few coming down from Scotland, but like I said, the North East was the area most came from.

Ah, happy days.

 

[Far north 37]

They were part of AMEC when I worked there back in 1992. I remember the logo.

The heliport we used was at Beccles, and the only people we had within 2-3 hours generally lived very locally.

I remember a few coming down from Scotland, but like I said, the North East was the area most came from.

Ah, happy days.

ah yes they would of been part of amec then but they all work under the amec name now.

id imagine it would of been an interesting job to say the least back then arranging hotels travel and check ins for all those guys especially at short notice half the time and not having the hotel options in yarmouth as you would in aberdeen

 

[anti-pacer]

ah yes they would of been part of amec then but they all work under the amec name now.

id imagine it would of been an interesting job to say the least back then arranging hotels travel and check ins for all those guys especially at short notice half the time and not having the hotel options in yarmouth as you would in aberdeen

It was an interesting job actually. It was my first proper job after 2 years on a YT scheme at Co-op Travel in Nottingham. We had just moved to Gorleston and I managed to get this job within just 3 days of arriving. Given the YT scheme paid me a measly £45 a week, being paid a proper wage was amazing. I made friends really quickly so was out most nights, and as it was summer, weekends in Yarmouth were great for a then 18 year old.

I enjoyed the role although a better one came along at the council so I left, but I have fond memories of James Scott. I worked in an office with a Cockney guy and an Aberdonian. They hated each other and slagged each other off behind their backs, normally to me. It was funny! The Aberdonian used to get everyone's backs up and a lot of our workers refused to deal with him when they came in the office.

 

[TimboM]

whats likely to be working into euston in the morning loco wise

Pretty sure it'll be 92038 first up on 1M11 Lowlander (easy to spot as the only CS-liveried 92 still with Tunnel Rings); with 92014 on 1M16 Highlander.

Also 87002 will more than likely work at least one of the ECS moves back to Wembley if not both.

 

[TimboM]

There's not really any slack in the splitting at EDB is there?

EDIT-Lost another couple of mins, appears to have been thrown onto the slows at Wembley, and is now rather close behind a class 4 freight. Now 90L and seemingly losing more.

Very little if no slack at Edinburgh I believe - rarely makes up any time if delayed there and indeed sometimes some/all of the portions set off with an even greater delay.

Not going well for 1S25 tonight: was diverted via Northampton - I believe due to an engineering possession it would have avoided if it'd been on time - and ended up 111L at Rugby. Made up a few mins since, but likely to be well over an hour late at its three ultimate destinations.

 

[Scotrail84]

1S25 delayed due to an air leak. Nothing to do with the loco.

 

[Scotrail84]

Sorry, but what's that got to do with Fife?

It would arrive later. Via Dunfermline is slower.

 

[GW43125]

A valiant effort but now 1S25 is skipping Dunblane, Dalwhinnie, Newtonmore, Carrbridge, 64L Blair Atholl.
1A25 55L Arbroath skipping Kirkcaldy, Montrose.
1Y11 47L Garelockhead.

So it's got better but still not great.

 

[Highland37]

Loch

 

[GW43125]

Loch

Sorry!

 

[marks87]

It would arrive later. Via Dunfermline is slower.

May I suggest you read the strand of posts that led to my suggestion of running via Dunfermline?

 

[Scotrail84]

May I suggest you read the strand of posts that led to my suggestion of running via Dunfermline?

If you mean stopping at Dunfermline then theres no chance. Ink and Kdy are used quite well on the sleeper.

 

[marks87]

If you mean stopping at Dunfermline then theres no chance. Ink and Kdy are used quite well on the sleeper.

No, the strand of posts was focused specifically on whether or not there should be a later arrival into Aberdeen, and if so how could that be achieved.

 

[Scotrail84]

No, the strand of posts was focused specifically on whether or not there should be a later arrival into Aberdeen, and if so how could that be achieved.

It can't arrive later in as the staff need their rest to come out the following night, more so when its a London crew away from their home depot.

I can't see it changing at all except maybe when they start to go down the East Coast Main Line permanently which is a few years away yet.

 

[Clansman]

It can't arrive later in as the staff need their rest to come out the following night, more so when its a London crew away from their home depot.

I can't see it changing at all except maybe when they start to go down the East Coast Main Line permanently which is a few years away yet.

How can it be too short a break for Aberdeen but not Fort William? Surely both staff are under the same conditions?

Never knew the sleeper is going to permanently travel on the ECML. What's the details for that?

 

[Scotrail84]

How can it be too short a break for Aberdeen but not Fort William? Surely both staff are under the same conditions?

Never knew the sleeper is going to permanently travel on the ECML. What's the details for that?

Only one London host goes to Ft William, if they are late they travel down on the train pass afaik.

The plan is ECML permanently so I'm told. Wont be until after the new trains come in though however this could be years away. Kings X the preferred terminus.

An educated guess will see set downs at (possibly) at Newcastle, York and Peterborough on 1M16

Pick ups at (possibly) at Peterborough, York and Newcastle on 1S25.

1M11 set down at Peterborough

1S26 pick up at Peterborough

Please note that the above is just my take on it and by no means 100% guaranteed to happen.

Peterborough replaces Waftord as the station North of London and is handy for connections to Stansted Airport, although Peterborough is much further North than Watford.

York replaces Crewe with connections to Manchester Airport, Leeds, Sheffield etc.

Newcastle replaces Preston in the Northwest for a stop in the Northeast.

Won't be convenient for everyone but I'd say its definitely doable and there is definitely scope for for good passenger usage.

 

[BRX]

Only one London host goes to Ft William, if they are late they travel down on the train pass afaik.

Same for Inverness? Because it arrives later / departs earlier than the Aberdeen one.

 

[Clansman]

Thanks for the details, I definitely see the logic in using the ECML in terms of passenger numbers as well.

I'd of thought that calling at Donny or Leeds would milk some patronage from the Midlands and Manchester. Missed opportunity if they don't in my opinion as York just seems too far to travel if you're coming from the Midlands and Manchester. Leeds would be ideal for a call should the Sleeper run regularly via the East Coast. Peterborough is a no brainer due to its links with Anglia and Standstead Airport as you said. Another benefit of the East Coast is that non-tilting trains aren't restricted to lower than the top line speed, so it'd be far easier for the sleeper to catch up on lost time in instances like it's seen in the past few days. Although as you said, there's no confirmation. It's intriguing how the diagram would look for this never the less though.

I take it Kings X will be in for a major platform refurbishment in the coming years, to support 16 x 23m coaches + 2 locomotives?

 

[CosherB]

Thanks for the details, I definitely see the logic in using the ECML in terms of passenger numbers as well.

I'd of thought that calling at Donny or Leeds would milk some patronage from the Midlands and Manchester. Missed opportunity if they don't in my opinion as York just seems too far to travel if you're coming from the Midlands and Manchester. Leeds would be ideal for a call should the Sleeper run regularly via the East Coast. Peterborough is a no brainer due to its links with Anglia and Standstead Airport as you said. Another benefit of the East Coast is that non-tilting trains aren't restricted to lower than the top line speed, so it'd be far easier for the sleeper to catch up on lost time in instances like it's seen in the past few days. Although as you said, there's no confirmation. It's intriguing how the diagram would look for this never the less though.

I take it Kings X will be in for a major platform refurbishment in the coming years, to support 16 x 23m coaches + 2 locomotives?

The top speed of a Class 92 is 87mph .....

 

[Clansman]

The top speed of a Class 92 is 87mph .....

...and that's the whole concept brought back down to earth again.

Bit of a let down that the 92s can't make it to 100 with the sleeper, unlike they're predecessor 90s.

 

[Muzer]

Surprises me a lot that 92s can't do a ton, especially considering they were intended to be used for sleeper services originally. Any chance of a regearing or something?

 

[paul1609]

They were part of AMEC when I worked there back in 1992. I remember the logo.

The heliport we used was at Beccles, and the only people we had within 2-3 hours generally lived very locally.

I remember a few coming down from Scotland, but like I said, the North East was the area most came from.

Ah, happy days.

I can remember loads of Offshore workers being on the train from Aberdeen down as far as Newcastle when I was based at Rosyth Dockyard in about 1990. We used to get a through train from Inverkeithing to Kings Cross about mid day we used to get on with our duty free beer and they used to borrow cans off us until the buffet re-opened after Edinburgh. I recall they were always pretty generous with the payback

 

[gsnedders]

I'd of thought that calling at Donny or Leeds would milk some patronage from the Midlands and Manchester. Missed opportunity if they don't in my opinion as York just seems too far to travel if you're coming from the Midlands and Manchester. Leeds would be ideal for a call should the Sleeper run regularly via the East Coast.

Are we expecting Leeds to York to be electrified soonish? (We could well be. I don't pay enough attention to that part of the world. )

 

[InOban]

I know they need to get the CS out of Euston to make space for HS2 works, but I can't see how they are going to get the sleeper into KX. I thought it was 20 vehicles at present? And even if the new vehicles are longer, the total train length shouldn't change much.

Just checked: most of the platforms are about 300m long, although the signal is further, so the engine can be beyond the platform. So 13 23m vehicles max.

 

[gsnedders]

I know they need to get the CS out of Euston to make space for HS2 works, but I can't see how they are going to get the sleeper into KX. I thought it was 20 vehicles at present? And even if the new vehicles are longer, the total train length shouldn't change much.

Just checked: most of the platforms are about 300m long, although the signal is further, so the engine can be beyond the platform. So 13 23m vehicles max.

Plan was to split the Highlander, AIUI.

 

[Clansman]

Once the Mk5s come, the lengths of both old and new sleepers are pretty much the same - the 16 coach Mk5 formation is 0.8 metres greater than that of the current full portion into London every morning.

So really you're looking at 398 metres minimum for a full 16 x Mk5 rake with 2 x 92s (one at each end).