Equality Act and Rail Staff.

[Richard1960]

I'm afraid the clause in the equality act that states that 'requests from people who consider themselves to have a disability must be adhered to however unreasonable' is a fragment of your imagination.
There is absolutely no requirement in the equality act that requires a train company to pay for a hotel room at a passengers request.

Never said there was but if you had been following posts I stated I made it clear I would have paid for it.

They never attempted to look up any in an area I was unfamillier with

People please keep up with posts. :cry:

 

[syorksdeano]

That is where you are wrong. The Equalities Act covers the following:

Types of discrimination ('protected characteristics')

Age
Being or becoming a transsexual person
Being married or in a civil partnership
Being pregnant or on maternity leave
Disability
Race including colour, nationality, ethnic or national origin
Religion, belief or lack of religion/belief
Sex
Sexual orientation

So as you can see it covers quite a lot of things and not just disability

 

[Richard1960]

That is where you are wrong. The Equalities Act covers the following:

Types of discrimination ('protected characteristics')

Age
Being or becoming a transsexual person
Being married or in a civil partnership
Being pregnant or on maternity leave
Disability
Race including colour, nationality, ethnic or national origin
Religion, belief or lack of religion/belief
Sex
Sexual orientation

So as you can see it covers quite a lot of things and not just disability

It does and as I do not suffer the above did not mention them mental health is my illness.

Seeing as you are knowledgeable what training do rail companies provide on the equity act have you an answer.

 

[ExRes]

I have to say that if you were as short with, and impolite to, the station staff as you have been to people on here, then I'm not surprised if they were less than enthusiastic with their response. If you want to know the training given to all companies in the privatised rail system then I'd be inclined to ask each of those companies rather than expect an assorted group of people on a forum to know, starting with the management of the company you claim were unhelpful to you

 

[dctraindriver]

Best bet is as I'm sure you've done is contact the TOC. See what the complaints lot tell you.

You'll get a mixture of comments of which none will satisfy your request for an answer on this forum......

Then maybe you can advise on here the outcome.

 

[Richard1960]

I have to say that if you were as short with, and impolite to, the station staff as you have been to people on here, then I'm not surprised if they were less than enthusiastic with their response. If you want to know the training given to all companies in the privatised rail system then I'd be inclined to ask each of those companies rather than expect an assorted group of people on a forum to know, starting with the management of the company you claim were unhelpful to you

Yes no I am not short with anybody mind you waiting 80 mins for a cab you were promised in 20-25 without explanation may make a lot of people short, but a lot of people are having a go at me on points I have already covered obviously not reading all posts , so I am repeating myself.

The question I had was and I repeat "what training on the equality act is offered to rail employees" and seeing as there are plenty of employees on this forum think its a fair question.

The fact after there pages nobody has given me a definitive answer speaks volumes.

 

[Darandio]

The fact after there pages nobody has given me a definitive answer speaks volumes.

It's been 2 hours since you started the thread, it's a bank holiday weekend and the weather is nice, it says nothing of the sort.

 

[ExRes]

Yes no I am not short but a lot of people are having a go at me on points I have already covered obviously not reading all posts , so I am repeating myself.

The question I had was and I repeat "what training on the equality act is offered to rail employees" and seeing as there are plenty of employees on this forum think its a fair question.

The fact after there pages nobody has given me a definitive answer speaks volumes.

And I repeat the fact that the railway is a privatised system and, as such, each company will differ in their training, meaning you will not find any one person who can give you a definitive answer

 

[313103]

I cannot remember if i had training from the company with regard the Equality Act 2010, i have picked up bits and pieces from courses i have done with the trade union i am in.

In fact my union has dedicated Equality Courses which is held over five days at the unions training centre, this course goes into detail about the Equality Act, whereas the unions other courses touch on it.

 

[Surreytraveller]

I am also an NHS member of staff who suffers with a disability so don't need lectures on overworked NHS staff.!

Well, as you are a member of NHS staff, can you tell me what training NHS staff get on the Data Protection Act, as I have had an experience with the NHS recently and I don't think they've treated my personal data appropriately.

 

[syorksdeano]

No the equality act only covers people with physical or mental health conditions not EVERYONE.

So first of all you say that it does not cover everyone and now you are saying that it does.

As I have said before I don't work for the railway so I couldn't tell you what training is undertaken, but it would be safe to assume their training would cover all eventualities.

But I do have to say that from what you have explained so far I am struggling to see where any discrimination has occurred. Maybe a reminder will be issued by the train company to staff but I think that is all it would be

 

[Gemz91]

Yes no I am not short with anybody mind you waiting 80 mins for a cab you were promised in 20-25 without explanation may make a lot of people short, but a lot of people are having a go at me on points I have already covered obviously not reading all posts , so I am repeating myself.

The question I had was and I repeat "what training on the equality act is offered to rail employees" and seeing as there are plenty of employees on this forum think its a fair question.

The fact after there pages nobody has given me a definitive answer speaks volumes.

Not sure what the disability act is to be honest, so its hard to answer your question.

As for the taxi, I once ordered a taxi for a passenger through control, and it took an hour to arrive. I was on the phone 5 or 6 times asking control where it was, and she didn't know either. When the taxi arrived, it turned out the company our TOC uses to arrange taxis had ordered one from 30 miles away. Rightly or wrongly, Tocs ordering taxis isn't a simple as the station manager ringing the local taxi office, but it has to be done through control who won't be local and don't have accounts set up at every local taxi operating company.

 

[Richard1960]

And I repeat the fact that the railway is a privatised system and, as such, each company will differ in their training, meaning you will not find any one person who can give you a definitive answer

No that's fair enough much clearer now will take it up with the rail company management concerned they have already got a written complaint.

But was just really asking if people in the industry on this forum had been trained at all.

Not much by the looks of it.

I would also add most people in the industry I have come across are nice people doing a difficult job.

 

[yorkie]

On Thursday day my train was terminated one stop early fair enough was told the next train would go through , and as I missed my connection they would order a taxi in a city location (next stop) to take me home.

Without knowing the locations involved it's a bit difficult to get the full picture.

All of a sudden they changed their mind and told me to go to another platform they would order one there ,told me one would be there in 20-25 mins , 70 mins later was still sitting on the platform without any explanation at all.

Did you ask them for an update? How exactly did the conversation go?

I had a panic attack and asked for an or for them for an ambulance or to find me a local premier inn.

Is that how you worded it? If so, it may have come across as an odd request. Is there any way you could have ordered an ambulance yourself?

They did not do this but told me about their rights instead

What happened to make them say this? Without knowing what was said and what was being done, I don't think we can give any meaningful advice.

obviously I though I might collapse as had happened before , so was quite faint

If I am feeling faint I get outside (if I am inside) and sit down. I'd also probably not want to be in a taxi until I was feeling a bit better. Did they do anything to help make you comfortable?

they then threatened to call the police and did not I wish they had as I was at my wits end.

Did they think you were saying or doing something to make them feel threatened? Was there any phone nearby for you to make a call yourself?

Have had to get on to the equalities commission for advice which they gave me altogether disgusting in 2017.

They did not seem to realise I was in distress at all.

I guess if you came across as angry, rather than distressed, that may explain why they reacted in the way that they did (rightly or wrongly).

What happened in the end? did the taxi arrive?

And I repeat the fact that the railway is a privatised system and, as such, each company will differ in their training, meaning you will not find any one person who can give you a definitive answer

Indeed. We do not know the train company who operated the station concerned.

 

[atillathehunn]

They did not do this but told me about their rights instead obviously I though I might collapse as had happened before , so was quite faint they then threatened to call the police and did not I wish they had as I was at my wits end.

Have had to get on to the equalities commission for advice which they gave me altogether disgusting in 2017.

They did not seem to realise I was in distress at all.

For a person pretty aggresively claiming your rights - though it's not immediately clear how you were discriminated against - complaining when another individual claims his right seems incoherent. I'm assuming in this instance they were iterating that they had a right to work in an environment free from abuse or abusive language?

Your disability doesn't inviolate their rights to the above, and I think we may be missing something if the staff escalated to calling the police.

 

[Richard1960]

Without knowing the locations involved it's a bit difficult to get the full picture.

Did you ask them for an update? How exactly did the conversation go?

Is that how you worded it? If so, it may have come across as an odd request. Is there any way you could have ordered an ambulance yourself?

What happened to make them say this? Without knowing what was said and what was being done, I don't think we can give any meaningful advice.


If I am feeling faint I get outside (if I am inside) and sit down. I'd also probably not want to be in a taxi until I was feeling a bit better. Did they do anything to help make you comfortable?


Did they think you were saying or doing something to make them feel threatened? Was there any phone nearby for you to make a call yourself?

I guess if you came across as angry, rather than distressed, that may explain why they reacted in the way that they did (rightly or wrongly).

What happened in the end? did the taxi arrive?

They told me they would keep me informed but did not.

They left me sitting on the platform when ill I was not offered to be taken somewhere more comfortable.

No am not looking for advice Yorkie just asking if rail employees are given any training .If not the management should be doing so.

The two people I dealt with did not seem to have a clue.

Yes the cab arrived and the driver was an older person not the 20 year old in the office he was reassuring and even said he had not seen that member of staff before.But on saying that went out by rail Saturday the staff could not have been nicer, guess its all on who you meet on the day.

 

[Suraggu]

Training in the Equality act varies from TOC to TOC in how much depth they go into it. But all TOC's I have worked for do go into it.

But this situation does not violate your rights the equality act from what you have published.

It can take hours to get alternative transport sought, and the point of keeping you updated, if there is no further information then no further updates required where the resources can be of use elsewhere.

Many posters are stating your missing parts of your story, eg the police which would make sense as it will always be a he said, she said type of situation.

You would of been better off actually contacting the TOC's directly instead of airing it on a public forum where many are railway employee's who actually have real life experiences and will pick at the story as a court would.

 

[Richard1960]

Training in the Equality act varies from TOC to TOC in how much depth they go into it. But all TOC's I have worked for do go into it.

But this situation does not violate your rights the equality act from what you have published.

It can take hours to get alternative transport sought, and the point of keeping you updated, if there is no further information then no further updates required where the resources can be of use elsewhere.

Many posters are stating your missing parts of your story, eg the police which would make sense as it will always be a he said, she said type of situation.

You would of been better off actually contacting the TOC's directly instead of airing it on a public forum where many are railway employee's who actually have real life experiences and will pick at the story as a court would.

It does believe me I spoke to the equality commission for an hour they wanted to know the ins and outs lack of dignity in a public place is what they have told me.

The people on duty told me that the cab would be 20-25 mins and they would keep me updated they did not 80 mins later , in an age where its all about communication is that right.?

I have contacted the TOC as I have said in previous postings , but also thanks for answering my question about training given.

I have not missed any parts I asked that the police be called after the people on duty threatened to do it , they then refused to call them does that answer your point.?

Train companies or times places have not been metioned as there is an on going enquirey and it would be unfair to do so.

But thanks at least I now know they cover the subject.

 

[district]

Whilst we were not taught the intricacies of the specific piece of legislation you mentioned, we had a very in-depth course about accessibility and the act was mentioned. We learnt about different types of disabilities, including mental health issues and how they can present, and also how specific symptoms may not always be what we first think (for example a diabetic suffering a hypo may appear drunk or aggressive even though they have not had any alcohol at all). We also have an accessiblity and inclusion manager who oversees all the relevant policies and procedures.

If your last train was cancelled or you missed the last connection and buses weren't appropriate then we would order a taxi. If there was a specific accessibility reason why you couldn't board a bus for example, we'd also order a taxi. If it's not the last train or connection but over an hour wait we'd normally consider taxis.

We've even ordered taxis for people who have told us they have important appointments to attend to, even though the next train is running. However, if you had presented to me having a panic attack my first priority would be to ensure you're OK, offer an ambulance and then assess if you're fit to travel.

I think at least at my TOC we are guilty of being over-cautious about ordering ambulances, and we always offer them to anyone who has had an accident, no matter how minor, or is presenting with a medical condition. I certainly wouldn't be ordering you a taxi if you're having a panic attack, unless that taxi is to a hospital (which I have done before!).

 

[Richard1960]

Whilst we were not taught the intricacies of the specific piece of legislation you mentioned, we had a very in-depth course about accessibility and the act was mentioned. We learnt about different types of disabilities, including mental health issues and how they can present, and also how specific symptoms may not always be what we first think (for example a diabetic suffering a hypo may appear drunk or aggressive even though they have not had any alcohol at all). We also have an accessiblity and inclusion manager who oversees all the relevant policies and procedures.

If your last train was cancelled or you missed the last connection and buses weren't appropriate then we would order a taxi. If there was a specific accessibility reason why you couldn't board a bus for example, we'd also order a taxi. If it's not the last train or connection but over an hour wait we'd normally consider taxis.

We've even ordered taxis for people who have told us they have important appointments to attend to, even though the next train is running. However, if you had presented to me having a panic attack my first priority would be to ensure you're OK, offer an ambulance and then assess if you're fit to travel.

I think at least at my TOC we are guilty of being over-cautious about ordering ambulances, and we always offer them to anyone who has had an accident, no matter how minor, or is presenting with a medical condition. I certainly wouldn't be ordering you a taxi if you're having a panic attack, unless that taxi is to a hospital (which I have done before!).

Thanks that's good to hear.

Glad some training is provided. Once again most train staff I come across are lovely people had a laugh with a couple of them yesterday great day out.

 

[Deafdoggie]

It does believe me I spoke to the equality commission for an hour they wanted to know the ins and outs

Although I don't work for a company in any way connected to the railway. I do work for a national company dealing with their complaints. We get lots of people saying the equality commission say they have a case, and they simply haven't. It does sadden me that they can be so wrong, so often. Just because the commission says you have a case, doesn't mean you have sadly.

You have to remember it is the equality commission. It is just that. Equality. Were you treated differently to anyone else? If not, they have broken no rules or laws. Did you have the same equal access as everyone else? If so, they have broken no rules or laws.

The Equality commission tend to try and go for favoured treatment, rather equality. That's not to say companies never get it wrong, but you will need to show you were disadvantaged, and not treated equally.

If everyone else was left waiting, then that is equal. If everyone else was put in taxis and you were left behind, that is not.

 

[Richard1960]

Although I don't work for a company in any way connected to the railway. I do work for a national company dealing with their complaints. We get lots of people saying the equality commission say they have a case, and they simply haven't. It does sadden me that they can be so wrong, so often. Just because the commission says you have a case, doesn't mean you have sadly.

You have to remember it is the equality commission. It is just that. Equality. Were you treated differently to anyone else? If not, they have broken no rules or laws. Did you have the same equal access as everyone else? If so, they have broken no rules or laws.

The Equality commission tend to try and go for favoured treatment, rather equality. That's not to say companies never get it wrong, but you will need to show you were disadvantaged, and not treated equally.

If everyone else was left waiting, then that is equal. If everyone else was put in taxis and you were left behind, that is not.

Nobody else was put in a taxi as their trains were running they had not missed their connection.!

However they all left before I did.!

Its not all about equal access but also about "Dignity" in a public place as the act says . Something I cannot say I was afforded having been left on the station platform rather then a private place.

Thanks for your post hopefully it will be concluded before going any further..

 

[Deafdoggie]

Its not all about equal access but also about "Dignity" in a public place as the act says . Something I cannot say I was afforded having been left on the station platform rather then a private place.

But again, was anyone else put somewhere private? If there was no apparent reason to, I doubt they would for anyone. Depending on the station there may well have been no where suitable anyway. Did you ask to be put somewhere private-or just ask for a hotel?

 

[Richard1960]

But again, was anyone else put somewhere private? If there was no apparent reason to, I doubt they would for anyone. Depending on the station there may well have been no where suitable anyway. Did you ask to be put somewhere private-or just ask for a hotel?

Nobody else was put in a private area as nobody else was ill jeez.

 

[ModernRailways]

I don't usually work frontline, but I was given brief training on accessibility and dealing with incidents, and similar to what District has said we are told to always offer assistance no matter what has happened - usually, in the case of someone incapacitated we'd phone police and then they'd deal with the situation, either requesting an Ambulance or waiting around with staff. I've never dealt with a passenger having a panic attack, or similar, but had one who threw up and then fainted on a train due to heat. We got them off the train and into our little back office, were we gave them some water. We asked if they wanted paramedics to come check them over and they refused. However, we still didn't feel like letting them go back off on their own so called for a taxi. The lady was on her way to work at the time so we also called the employer to let them know she wouldn't be going into work today. Taxi turned up about 25 minutes later and we left her with the advice that if it happens again, to call 999.

So whilst we have no specific training to the act you mention, most of us can use common sense and if you requested an ambulance, you would get an ambulance. As with any workplace you may get the odd one who'll be more hesitant too though so even if a TOC does have a policy like that you'll still likely find some who'll act in a similar way to the staff you've mentioned.

As you've already done, contacting the TOC is definitely the best way forward

 

[mbreckers]

Can I ask OP if he took the same attitude with the staff as he is taking with of members of this board?

If so, it might explain a lot

 

[Richard1960]

I don't usually work frontline, but I was given brief training on accessibility and dealing with incidents, and similar to what District has said we are told to always offer assistance no matter what has happened - usually, in the case of someone incapacitated we'd phone police and then they'd deal with the situation, either requesting an Ambulance or waiting around with staff. I've never dealt with a passenger having a panic attack, or similar, but had one who threw up and then fainted on a train due to heat. We got them off the train and into our little back office, were we gave them some water. We asked if they wanted paramedics to come check them over and they refused. However, we still didn't feel like letting them go back off on their own so called for a taxi. The lady was on her way to work at the time so we also called the employer to let them know she wouldn't be going into work today. Taxi turned up about 25 minutes later and we left her with the advice that if it happens again, to call 999.

So whilst we have no specific training to the act you mention, most of us can use common sense and if you requested an ambulance, you would get an ambulance. As with any workplace you may get the odd one who'll be more hesitant too though so even if a TOC does have a policy like that you'll still likely find some who'll act in a similar way to the staff you've mentioned.

As you've already done, contacting the TOC is definitely the best way forward

Thanks for that have contacted the TOC mostly don't want anybody else having the same problem .

Great answer and most people on the rail network are just like you I am happy to say.

 

[ComUtoR]

If I wanted the police called or an ambulance called then I would call them myself. Or use the emergency call button on the platform.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Nobody else was put in a private area as nobody else was ill jeez.

It is this attitude that doesn't help yourself.

I guess it depends if you consider it an illness or a disability. You keep switching.

Generally, I find if you don't make a big thing out of your disability (or illness) you get much better service and attention. If you make a big thing and claim discrimination, you get much worse service, as you put peoples back up.

If someone is ill, not just train staff, but the general public do what they can to help. Someone moaning they are ill (or disabled) doesn't usually get such great service,

Change the attitude (actually, loose the attitude) and I am sure you won't have a bad experience.

 

[yorkie]

Nobody else was put in a taxi as their trains were running they had not missed their connection.!

The train terminated one stop early and no-one else wanted the final stop and there was no further journey opportunity to that station?

Its not all about equal access but also about "Dignity" in a public place as the act says . Something I cannot say I was afforded having been left on the station platform rather then a private place.

Were there passengers waiting for other trains running to other destinations? I'd have thought a quiet place would be available somewhere on the station, but as we do not know what station it was, we cannot say.

It sounds like you are saying that they did not communicate for over an hour, but you didn't ask them either? Then, after 70 minutes of waiting, you had a panic attack. Presumably they became aware of this happening and approached you? You asked for an ambulance or premier inn to be provided, they said no, and there was no other way of contacting those services yourself, so neither got called. They told you of their rights and threatened to call the police, but didn't. The taxi arrived after an unknown further period of time and you then left.

Are you sure there is nothing missing in that?

If that really is what happened, with no missing bits, that does sound extremely poor behaviour by the staff however there are things you could have said to make the situation better, such as not asking for a Premier Inn.