Arriva replace 35 seater Solo SRs with Mercedes minibuses

[Bwsbro]

How old are the Solos that are being replaced?

12 plate

 

[BestWestern]

The Alero failed essentially because it was rubbish - the build quality and reliability were appalling. I think to all useful[1] intents and purposes the mini-Solo replaced it.

As for longevity, as others have said the Beavers and the likes went on forever, and those had (admittedly larger) van running gear. Only disability legislation (quite rightly) killed them.

It didn't kill all of them! A few with zero standees and the laughable 'coach' status still live on

Anyone who's sat at the towering helm of a 709 or 811, has wrestled with their rolling, ship-like handling, searched in hope for a gearbox at the end of that lever that looks like it came out of something with 53 seats, and has disembarked after a shift with the inevitable 'buzzing leg' from several hours of rythmic vibrations, will testify that they aren't "vans"! They're tougher than a Chieftan tank and the chassis is hewn from granite! Admittedly, the Iveco Turbodaily efforts were rather less beast-like, and to be fair they went on forever as well! (I'd rather have the Merc any day!)

 

[AnonymousUser1]

You can't use a D1 licence to drive for hire or reward.

yes you can assuming it is not one that is restricted, as the majority of grandfather rights D1s are ...

 

[northwichcat]

How old are the Solos that are being replaced?

12 plate

It should be noted that while they will leave Arriva's depots in Cheshire, they won't be leaving Arriva - it's been suggested they'll move to Arriva Wales' Wrexham depot (unconfirmed.) As it's one in and one out it's a case of Arriva North West reducing costs.

 

[embers25]

Arriva have just replaced the 3 in Guildford with Sprinters. It runs every 20 mins and there will be no increase in frequency meaning a long wait if you can't get on. They claim its because bigger buses got stuck and yet no part of the route is down narrow roads and certainly no part is worse than roads on their 437 and 462 services.

 

[Bletchleyite]

yes you can assuming it is not one that is restricted, as the majority of grandfather rights D1s are ...

Indeed, it is possible to pass a test for D1 which gives you an unrestricted PCV licence for up to 16 passenger seats only (plus driver), much easier to get than full D because you take the test in a minibus. A good many car drivers could probably pass it with only one "bad habit removing and test technique" lesson.

I would expect that most private-hire minibus drivers have this rather than D.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Arriva have just replaced the 3 in Guildford with Sprinters. It runs every 20 mins and there will be no increase in frequency meaning a long wait if you can't get on. They claim its because bigger buses got stuck and yet no part of the route is down narrow roads and certainly no part is worse than roads on their 437 and 462 services.

I would suppose the key point is "if you can't get on" - Arriva must've looked at loadings before going down this route?

 

[Lrd]

You need a CPC (Certificate of Professional Competance) card to be able to drive for hire or reward.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You need a CPC (Certificate of Professional Competance) card to be able to drive for hire or reward.

Yes, typically that is done as part of the licence then renewed at 5 yearly intervals thereafter.

You can't remove the (101) bit from the pre-97 "free" D1 just by doing CPC, though. You have to take a D1 test *and* do CPC to use it commercially.

 

[embers25]

I would suppose the key point is "if you can't get on" - Arriva must've looked at loadings before going down this route?

Agreed although I suspect they are quite happy with the fully loaded zero comfort option where people do get left behind every now and then as the money it saves outweighs the lost custom (they already operate that way around Park Barn on the uni buses). Stagecoach didn't adopt this approach but their trial has opened up the floodgates I believe where we'll be seeing more of these "upgrades" to sprinters. In rural places fair enough and down narrow roads fair enough but the 3 is neither.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Agreed although I suspect they are quite happy with the fully loaded zero comfort option where people do get left behind every now and then as the money it saves outweighs the lost custom (they already operate that way around Park Barn on the uni buses). Stagecoach didn't adopt this approach but their trial has opened up the floodgates I believe where we'll be seeing more of these "upgrades" to sprinters. In rural places fair enough and down narrow roads fair enough but the 3 is neither.

Is the next possible step reservations via a smartphone app (or call centre for the technologically challenged) for a specific journey? Particularly where these are used on less frequent rural trips.

DRT call centres tend to keep short hours and require long advance booking, but I see no reason this can't be improved upon.

 

[embers25]

Is the next possible step reservations via a smartphone app (or call centre for the technologically challenged) for a specific journey? Particularly where these are used on less frequent rural trips.

DRT call centres tend to keep short hours and require long advance booking, but I see no reason this can't be improved upon.

Certainly there are places where DRT is more effective. Those buses tend to be for old people with shopping trolleys or at least for people doing big shops on a weekly service and these buses can't handle that due to lack of space unfortunately.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Certainly there are places where DRT is more effective. Those buses tend to be for old people with shopping trolleys or at least for people doing big shops on a weekly service and these buses can't handle that due to lack of space unfortunately.

Assuming it is available (and I find availability to be very good these days, having done so to Scout campsites in the middle of nowhere on many occasions), I can't see why *anyone* would do a weekly shop by bus these days when delivery is available. You could then use your weekly bus for a much more enjoyable leisure journey of some kind, or to select those items you prefer to select yourself like fresh meat/fruit/veg in much smaller quantities, with heavy tins etc delivered.

 

[embers25]

Assuming it is available (and I find availability to be very good these days, having done so to Scout campsites in the middle of nowhere on many occasions), I can't see why *anyone* would do a weekly shop by bus these days when delivery is available. You could then use your weekly bus for a much more enjoyable leisure journey of some kind, or to select those items you prefer to select yourself like fresh meat/fruit/veg in much smaller quantities, with heavy tins etc delivered.

For many old people shopping is their contact with the outside world and some go out daily just for that reason. A coffee and some shopping each day. The shopping trolley may not always be full but it's often present and these buses take 2 at most, if there's no buggy/wheelchair.

 

[Robertj21a]

For many old people shopping is their contact with the outside world and some go out daily just for that reason. A coffee and some shopping each day. The shopping trolley may not always be full but it's often present and these buses take 2 at most, if there's no buggy/wheelchair.

Yes, I think this is the point. The older people want to get out, see friends, maintain independence etc and we should encourage that. Many will take their shopping trolley, even if it stays largely empty, as they can also use it for support and/or simply can no longer carry even small bags of food. A good many won't have internet facilities, or simply prefer their traditional way of life.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The shopping trolley may not always be full but it's often present

My mother-in-law, who's 77, takes her shopping trolley out and uses it as a walker. She needs a walker anyway, so she may as well use a walker that she can carry a bit of shopping in on the way home.

That said, the 2+1 seating of a Sprinter might make it a bit easier to carry a few more trolleys, as people can sit sideways on the seat and have the trolley in the footwell.

 

[ECML180]

Is the next possible step reservations via a smartphone app (or call centre for the technologically challenged) for a specific journey? Particularly where these are used on less frequent rural trips.

DRT call centres tend to keep short hours and require long advance booking, but I see no reason this can't be improved upon.

That's a good description of (recently launched) ArrivaClick, I looked for an article on Route One but could only find ones on other sites (behind paywalls).

https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/arrivaclick/

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's a good description of (recently launched) ArrivaClick, I looked for an article on Route One but could only find ones on other sites (behind paywalls).

https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/arrivaclick/

That's more DRT, and I'm unconvinced that at those fares (£1/mile) it will really work, as Uberpool is cheaper to operate being done using cars, or just have a taxi to yourself for little more. Being app-only it also shuts out a huge part of the bus travel market - children (as they are not allowed unless accompanied) and the elderly (who are less likely to use smartphone apps) - so in this form it can never replace regular buses.

I was thinking of simply allowing seat reservation (with advance payment, so not refundable if you miss the bus, so seats are not wasted) on timetabled small-bus stage carriage services. An app may be one way of doing this, as may a premium text or a premium rate telephone call.

 

[northwichcat]

These have now started to appear in service

The regular routes will apparently be 1 and 2 in Northwich and 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 21 in Macclesfield. However, they have been seen working the short 84 services between Crewe and Nantwich this week.

The buses say on the exterior
"Get on board
It's your usual bus only smaller"
https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/globalassets/image-galleries/north-west/new-buses/img_0083.jpg

 

[SpacePhoenix]

These have now started to appear in service

The regular routes will apparently be 1 and 2 in Northwich and 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 21 in Macclesfield. However, they have been seen working the short 84 services between Crewe and Nantwich this week.

The buses say on the exterior
"Get on board
It's your usual bus only smaller"
https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/globalassets/image-galleries/north-west/new-buses/img_0083.jpg

Just looking at that photo, it doesn't seem too much shorter than a standard Solo

 

[northwichcat]

Just looking at that photo, it doesn't seem too much shorter than a standard Solo

The Solos they are replacing are the larger 9.7m type, which are longer than the smaller version of the Enviro 200 (8.8m.) The larger Solos have 35 seats and room for up to 16 standing, so quite a difference!

 

[BestWestern]

Wow. It looks like a half melted ice cream van, and if they manage more than four or five years of hard labour I'll be amazed. What an awful piece of kit!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wow. It looks like a half melted ice cream van, and if they manage more than four or five years of hard labour I'll be amazed. What an awful piece of kit!

Does look a bit weird, probably reminiscent of previous breadvan minibuses but with a low floor and a very pointy nose. Mind you, the old Mercedes/Plaxton Beavers were bombproof.

 

[nottinghamcity]

Wow. It looks like a half melted ice cream van, and if they manage more than four or five years of hard labour I'll be amazed. What an awful piece of kit!

That reminds me of a past we I never thought I would see again and never wanted to

 

[Bletchleyite]

That reminds me of a past we I never thought I would see again and never wanted to

The new livery is very 1980s, too. Not a fan of that, it's washed out and not at all slick.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Wow. It looks like a half melted ice cream van, and if they manage more than four or five years of hard labour I'll be amazed. What an awful piece of kit!

Exactly the same comment was made about the Ford Transits that arrived 1984-6 and they lasted for over 10 years in some places

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Anyone who's on one of the routes they're being introduced on ridden on one yet? What the ride quality like compared with the Solos that they're replacing?

 

[BestWestern]

Exactly the same comment was made about the Ford Transits that arrived 1984-6 and they lasted for over 10 years in some places

Yes, but a bulletproof 1980s Tranny is an awful lot tougher than today's emotional diesel engines and their associated kit!

 

[northwichcat]

Anyone who's on one of the routes they're being introduced on ridden on one yet? What the ride quality like compared with the Solos that they're replacing?

Can't answer that question but I've found the Solo SRs ride a lot better than the older Solo models. If it took a while for Optare to optimise ride quality for Solos will the same be true for Mercedes and their new minibuses?

Also worth noting a lot of side roads in Cheshire East are poor quality. A lot are in need of repair or have had a surface dressing or thin layer of asphalt put over the top when they ideally needed proper resurfacing, so if they don't have good ride quality it'll be very noticeable on some routes.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Yes, but a bulletproof 1980s Tranny is an awful lot tougher than today's emotional diesel engines and their associated kit!

It is something that is often trotted out though.

I can remember that the Leyland National wouldn't last (in comparison to an RELL) or that a Dart was cheap rubbish and they'd not last 10 years.

In the heat of deregulation, my local services were converted from conventional to Merc L608s. Granted, they initially went through clutches and brake pads and the prediction was they'd last 5 years max. Retrofit of retarders etc improved things and they lasted 12 years!

Merc commercial chassis are very durable whether they were 608, 709 or 811 - the Vario was durable but awful in terms of ride quality (especially the earlier examples)