Porterbrook Cl.769 'Flex' trains from 319s, initially for Northern

[edwin_m]

Porterbrook are being ruthless at the moment about spending its money on its trains (will not start TSI PRM mods on ATW 150/2 fleet without a guarantee of long term use) Would Porterbrook pay for 5 x 769s that would be be handed back after ONLY 18 months service ??

Almost certainly not, as the ROSCOs have got their hands burnt in a serious way by unexpected replacement of their units on Anglia and SWT. It may be that DfT is paying the cost of the conversion, in order to compensate Northern for the lack of the electrification or the delay to the DMU cascades they were told to assume would be in place when bidding the franchise.

 

[deltic08]

Almost certainly not, as the ROSCOs have got their hands burnt in a serious way by unexpected replacement of their units on Anglia and SWT. It may be that DfT is paying the cost of the conversion, in order to compensate Northern for the lack of the electrification or the delay to the DMU cascades they were told to assume would be in place when bidding the franchise.

Can the 707s become ac by fitting a pan?

 

[swt_passenger]

Can the 707s become ac by fitting a pan?

Yes, and as mentioned a few times the first two already have full dual voltage capability. They have also been to Hornsey and back via the Thameslink route on test.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There's another (OHLE) Siemens shop that is a couple of units short...

 

[Tremzinho]

Apologies if this has been posted elsewhere, but we appear to have the first confirmed route for these units.

A Merseytravel report says that they will be used for two daily peak time services from Southport to Alderley Edge via Bolton.

http://moderngov.merseytravel.uk.net/documents/s20571/TRANSPENNINE%20EXPRESS%20AND%20NORTHERN%20MAY%202018%20TIMETABLE%20CONSULTATION.pdf

 

[jimm]

Just noticed the picture of 210001 on the first page of this thread - which is uncredited.

Ohh, with diesel engines in the driving trailers is it back to the future?

I know it's unlikely that some of each driving trailer seats would be converted to the engine bay but at least this shows how it could look!
Cheers,
Mr Toad

The photograph was taken by Martin Loader - of hondawanderer.com - http://www.hondawanderer.com/210001_Kingham_1983.htm which really isn't hard to work out if it was indeed found on Google.

And as the photo is his copyright, it really shouldn't have been posted here like this without his express consent.

 

[Ze Random One]

Just noticed the picture of 210001 on the first page of this thread - which is uncredited.



The photograph was taken by Martin Loader - of hondawanderer.com - http://www.hondawanderer.com/210001_Kingham_1983.htm which really isn't hard to work out if it was indeed found on Google.

And as the photo is his copyright, it really shouldn't have been posted here like this without his express consent.

The image is not hosted on the forum. I understand law is complex around this, but essentially the image file itself has not been moved from traintesting.com. It is no different from embedding a YouTube video on the page. The video remains on YouTube. If it was illegal to do this then things like Google Image Search would be illegal. If you right click the image and look at the properties you will see that the file was retrieved by your computer directly from traintesting. It never went through rail forums servers. Of course, it is good manners to credit the source, but I don't believe any infringement has occurred.

 

[Lemmy99uk]

Just noticed the picture of 210001 on the first page of this thread - which is uncredited.



The photograph was taken by Martin Loader - of hondawanderer.com - http://www.hondawanderer.com/210001_Kingham_1983.htm which really isn't hard to work out if it was indeed found on Google.

And as the photo is his copyright, it really shouldn't have been posted here like this without his express consent.

Under 'Fair Use' rules, you have the legal right to use copyrighted images as long as the images are used for educational, research or personal use, or as long as the image benefits the public in some way.

Using the image of 210 001 in a discussion about fitting diesel engines to multiple units, (even if it is slightly tongue in cheek), could be considered as educational and a benefit to the public.

If people don't wish to have their images used by others they should refrain from posting them publicly on the internet.

 

[northwichcat]

There is a limit to the amount of copyrighted material you can use and claim it's for educational purposes. If you had a 30 page book on trains used in the 1970s you can't scan in the whole book and post it online and claim it's for educational purposes.

If you don't own the photo then there's no real benefit of embedding it in a forum post. Apparently the reason for the forum rule of not just providing links is so rail workers who can only view a limited number of domains on their work email can still see it. However, in an embedded image is on a different domain then embedding it doesn't solve the problem.

 

[Deepgreen]

Ohh, with diesel engines in the driving trailers is it back to the future?

(Not my image - found on Google)

I know it's unlikely that some of each driving trailer seats would be converted to the engine bay but at least this shows how it could look!
Cheers,
Mr Toad

I've seen this shot a few times and I always find myself thinking that the two ladies must be Monty Python cast members!

 

[Spartacus]

They're lucky they weren't bowled by the DMU going in the opposite direction!

 

[jopsuk]

In the 210 how far forward in the motor coach did the passenger accommodation go? Did it stop at the first doors (from the inner end)? The second doors (very close to the first!)? or is that window in the blue section still (noisy) passenger space?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

In the 210 how far forward in the motor coach did the passenger accommodation go? Did it stop at the first doors (from the inner end)? The second doors (very close to the first!)? or is that window in the blue section still (noisy) passenger space?

I believe the engine bay took up most of the coach

 

[47802]

In the 210 how far forward in the motor coach did the passenger accommodation go? Did it stop at the first doors (from the inner end)? The second doors (very close to the first!)? or is that window in the blue section still (noisy) passenger space?

I would think it stopped at the first double door, on the 3 car unit I notice the power car on that didn't have 2 double doors and the passenger accommodation may have extended further.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I traveled on both 210s.

That window between the forward doors and the engine bay is indeed a seated area - but only on one side as there was a side corridor through the engine bay. This was a proper corridor that was intended to be used by passengers when two units were coupled together.

I can't remember if the seats were arranged 3+0 or 4+0 in that area though.

 

[swt_passenger]

Didn't the four car version also have some sort of luggage or parcels area, although probably obsolescent for new stock at the time it was built? Was that in the motored vehicle as well?

 

[D6975]

I've seen this shot a few times and I always find myself thinking that the two ladies must be Monty Python cast members!

They definitely look like members of the Batley Townswomen's Guild.

 

[The Lad]

Possibly, but a long way from home.

 

[physics34]

Didn't the four car version also have some sort of luggage or parcels area, although probably obsolescent for new stock at the time it was built? Was that in the motored vehicle as well?

the 3 car and 4 car versions had a different window arrangement on the motor coach i know that, but not sure of the interior.

 

[Marklund]

Didn't the four car version also have some sort of luggage or parcels area, although probably obsolescent for new stock at the time it was built?

The later 150s had the luggage/parcels section, so it wouldn't be surprising if it did.

by Ian Sharman

 

[WatcherZero]

If these are going to primarily serve Alderley Edge-Wigan NW and Liverpool-Wigan services. Does it not make sense to stable them at Wigan Wallgate Carriage Sidings or Wigan traction Depot? Are the sidings long enough?

They did vegetation clearance at the traction depot in anticipation of electrifying it then seemingly changed their mind with a focus on new Blackburn diesel depot and expanded Blackpool stabling.

 

[Bornin1980s]

Apologies if this has been posted elsewhere, but we appear to have the first confirmed route for these units.

A Merseytravel report says that they will be used for two daily peak time services from Southport to Alderley Edge via Bolton.

http://moderngov.merseytravel.uk.net/documents/s20571/TRANSPENNINE%20EXPRESS%20AND%20NORTHERN%20MAY%202018%20TIMETABLE%20CONSULTATION.pdf

What trains will they replace on the route?

 

[a_c_skinner]

What will they do for the rest of the time might be just as good a question.

Andrew

 

[Bletchleyite]

What will they do for the rest of the time might be just as good a question.

Seems like a slow phase-in for testing purposes, very sensible.

 

[Bornin1980s]

How many northern pacer or sprinter diagrams are run largely under the wires? The 769s would be ideal for such routes.

 

[Bletchleyite]

How many northern pacer or sprinter diagrams are run largely under the wires? The 769s would be ideal for such routes.

There's nothing more ideal for a 100mph EMU which is also capable of say 60mph on diesel than Barrow/Windermere, but these are Northern Connect routes so it is unlikely.

 

[Bornin1980s]

Could the 769s be used for the all stops service on that route.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Could the 769s be used for the all stops service on that route.

Potentially, but with Windermere the pattern is roughly "unit runs up from Manchester Airport, does a load of shuttles, unit runs back" so it'd be complicated.

My ideal service pattern for those routes would be an hourly two-unit service from Manchester Airport dividing at Lancaster, or as an alternative each destination every two hours with a connection for the other one again at Lancaster.

 

[IanXC]

If these are going to primarily serve Alderley Edge-Wigan NW and Liverpool-Wigan services. Does it not make sense to stable them at Wigan Wallgate Carriage Sidings or Wigan traction Depot? Are the sidings long enough?

They did vegetation clearance at the traction depot in anticipation of electrifying it then seemingly changed their mind with a focus on new Blackburn diesel depot and expanded Blackpool stabling.

My impression was that the Blackburn is intended to takeover stabling diesel units, freeing up Blackpool for an 'all electric' operation (but I suppose there is no reason this couldn't stable 769s). Surprising as it sounds the York - Blackpool North route will be the only diesel route into Blackpool North before too long!

 

[northwichcat]

How many northern pacer or sprinter diagrams are run largely under the wires? The 769s would be ideal for such routes.

The only regular services which were mainly under the wires were Liverpool to Blackpool but they've mostly been temporarily truncated so EMUs can be used to free up DMUs for routes where the ex-TPE 170s would still be used if they hadn't been transferred to Chiltern.