South Wales 'Metro' updates

[Hwnt52]

Just come across these pics of a snowplough train in February 1979 near Dowlias on freight line no closed. Remember this is lower down than the Proposed circuit!

http://www.whamart.co.uk/photogallery/south wales 3_1.htm

The snow pictures look to me as if they were taken on the line from Nelson to Dowlais Cae Harris which of course is still open to Cwmbargoed where the rails are over 1200 feet above sea level. As far as I can recall, and I was living in Merthyr in 1979, the tracks were still in situ at Cae Harris although not in regular use. I can remember the occasional train to the Ivor Foundry in Dowlais but I'm not sure when these finished.

 

[Envoy]

The discovery of coal (plus iron ore & limestone) led to the industrialisation of the valleys. As the mineral based industries declined, factories provided employment. With globalisation, it became cheaper to manufacture in poorer countries. So, we really have a situation now where the reason for the valleys becoming heavily populated has ceased to exist.

Cardiff has provided many jobs and is a relatively short distance - at least from the lower Taff & Rhymney valleys. The complete dualling of the A465 from Dowlais to Abergavenny is now nearing completion. (This leaves just Dowlais to Hirwaun to complete the upgrade and thus form a fast link between the M4 near Neath and the Midlands - snow & low cloud permitting). This should help in the promotion of the upper valleys for any suitable employers to move in to the area. Regarding who these might be is the big problem.

The problem with Cardiff is that it has the sea to the south, a range of hills/mountains immediately to the north leaving limited space for expansion. Going east means it would soon reach Newport whilst to the west, we have one of the few untouched areas of countryside in this part of Wales. The unfortunate thing is that Welsh Government planners decided they wanted Cardiff to expand and land deals appear to have been done in collaboration with Cardiff Council, the Plymouth Estate & others. The Welsh Government then appointed ‘independent’ planning inspectors to go through the so called ‘hearings’ into the Local Development Plan. So, we have had a situation whereby all the planning for these development areas had been done prior to the LDP hearings! Vectos were appointed as transport consultants and what they basically proposed is a bus based system whereby at least 50% of commuters would use buses. They completely ignored any system of shifting people via a new rail system go NW from Cardiff to Cregiau. (They did show trams on the streets of Plasdwr in illustrations and they have protected the route of any such re-built railway). It seems to me that no railway will be re-built out to Cregiau and that the Welsh Government will have quite enough on their plate electrifying the current local rail network in SE Wales. It is regrettable that the Welsh Government did Local Development Plans based on counties that are relatively small. So, for example, the adjoining Vale of Glamorgan County does not count towards housing development for Cardiff. We now have a situation whereby Barry is joining up with Cardiff’'s Culverhouse Cross whilst the villages on the A48 such as Bonvilston & St. Nicholas are also seeing urbanisation. What is more is that Redrow are being allowed to build their hideous ‘heritage’ range of houses in Vale villages and these are more like replicas of 1930’s suburbia than the local architecture of render and limestone. None of these villages will have any form of rail connection with Cardiff.

Needless to say, all this development between the M4/Cardiff and the Barry area is slowing down traffic even more to Cardiff Airport.

 

[Gareth Marston]

The discovery of coal (plus iron ore & limestone) led to the industrialisation of the valleys. As the mineral based industries declined, factories provided employment. With globalisation, it became cheaper to manufacture in poorer countries. So, we really have a situation now where the reason for the valleys becoming heavily populated has ceased to exist.

Cardiff has provided many jobs and is a relatively short distance - at least from the lower Taff & Rhymney valleys. The complete dualling of the A465 from Dowlais to Abergavenny is now nearing completion. (This leaves just Dowlais to Hirwaun to complete the upgrade and thus form a fast link between the M4 near Neath and the Midlands - snow & low cloud permitting). This should help in the promotion of the upper valleys for any suitable employers to move in to the area. Regarding who these might be is the big problem.

The problem with Cardiff is that it has the sea to the south, a range of hills/mountains immediately to the north leaving limited space for expansion. Going east means it would soon reach Newport whilst to the west, we have one of the few untouched areas of countryside in this part of Wales. The unfortunate thing is that Welsh Government planners decided they wanted Cardiff to expand and land deals appear to have been done in collaboration with Cardiff Council, the Plymouth Estate & others. The Welsh Government then appointed ‘independent’ planning inspectors to go through the so called ‘hearings’ into the Local Development Plan. So, we have had a situation whereby all the planning for these development areas had been done prior to the LDP hearings! Vectos were appointed as transport consultants and what they basically proposed is a bus based system whereby at least 50% of commuters would use buses. They completely ignored any system of shifting people via a new rail system go NW from Cardiff to Cregiau. (They did show trams on the streets of Plasdwr in illustrations and they have protected the route of any such re-built railway). It seems to me that no railway will be re-built out to Cregiau and that the Welsh Government will have quite enough on their plate electrifying the current local rail network in SE Wales. It is regrettable that the Welsh Government did Local Development Plans based on counties that are relatively small. So, for example, the adjoining Vale of Glamorgan County does not count towards housing development for Cardiff. We now have a situation whereby Barry is joining up with Cardiff’'s Culverhouse Cross whilst the villages on the A48 such as Bonvilston & St. Nicholas are also seeing urbanisation. What is more is that Redrow are being allowed to build their hideous ‘heritage’ range of houses in Vale villages and these are more like replicas of 1930’s suburbia than the local architecture of render and limestone. None of these villages will have any form of rail connection with Cardiff.

Needless to say, all this development between the M4/Cardiff and the Barry area is slowing down traffic even more to Cardiff Airport.

The initial proposals for the South Wales Metro came from individuals who understood that South Wales was just going to paralyse itself and become even more un-competitive due to ill thought out car based urban sprawl as you describe above. Whilst its a big flagship project i still don't think the Welsh Government "get it" hence why the slow progress.

They still seem to be locked in the mindset that road improvements will bring economic development even though the evidence base for this assumption in a mature roads based economy where vehicles exist by the millions and purpose built roads have been built almost everywhere already is lacking. A new piece of road is so insignificant in the bigger picture that it does very little positive certainly nothing like people perception. Whilst back in the day a new purpose built road where none existed before was a game changer with less than 5 million vehicles on the road that phase has long since past.

 

[gareth950]

The Week In, Week Out programme on BBC One Wales about Cardiff this week was an eye opener and is pretty grim viewing re: Cardiff's poor transport infrastructure.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b08w9473/week-in-week-out-cardiffs-growing-pains

Essentially the 'Plasdwr' housing development on greenfield sites to the West of the city will be relying on people using buses and cycling to work to reduce congestion, which the retired planning expert that contributed to the programme helpfully said, "people only use buses if there's no other option left", so people will still use their cars.
Unless certain roads in Cardiff from the West are closed during the morning and evening peaks to allow high capacity, double decker express buses into town to operate, congestion will reach crisis point (it's almost at this stage now).

Cardiff desperately needs a congestion charge. Forcing people out of their cars is the only solution - behaviour change isn't going to happen with no rail services serving these new developments. Which is bonkers in itself.

 

[Envoy]

The Week In, Week Out programme on BBC One Wales about Cardiff this week was an eye opener and is pretty grim viewing re: Cardiff's poor transport infrastructure.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b08w9473/week-in-week-out-cardiffs-growing-pains

Essentially the 'Plasdwr' housing development on greenfield sites to the West of the city will be relying on people using buses and cycling to work to reduce congestion, which the retired planning expert that contributed to the programme helpfully said, "people only use buses if there's no other option left", so people will still use their cars.
Unless certain roads in Cardiff from the West are closed during the morning and evening peaks to allow high capacity, double decker express buses into town to operate, congestion will reach crisis point (it's almost at this stage now).

Cardiff desperately needs a congestion charge. Forcing people out of their cars is the only solution - behaviour change isn't going to happen with no rail services serving these new developments. Which is bonkers in itself.

I have seen plans that show the narrow country lane between the cross roads N of St.Fagans and Pentrebane/Fairwater being closed to vehicles and turned into a cycleway. Obviously, people will need to get to/from Peterson Super Ely and Cardiff. PSE has few buses and cycling is out for the majority. With one of the routes closed into Cardiff, they will be forced to go via St.Fagans and Fairwater Green - thus adding to the congestion. The other alternative will be some devious route over humps etc. through the new Plasdwr development - thus bringing the danger of vehicles / fumes into an area in which they have no business. Cars are also likely to be prevented from using Croft-Y-Gennau Road between the St.Fagans crossroads and the A4119 at Redlava at certain times of the day. This will be enforced by rising bollards.

A Park & Ride - using buses - is planned for the N side of M4 J33 along with a business park. My understanding is that the buses will proceed along the A4232 to Culverhouse Cross before taking the A48 via Ely & Canton to the city centre. This scheme is absolutely bonkers. J33 can’t cope as it is due to conflicting traffic flows having to cross at precisely the point where they plan to insert the road to the P&R/business park. J33 will become even more jammed than it is already! No doubt, some on this forum will be pleased about that as they hope people will shift to rail transport. I also would like to see people shift to rail transport where it is viable. However, I also recognise that road transport plays a vital role in the economy of an area.

Anybody who is interested in monitoring the traffic flow in this area can click this link and bookmark it. Each time you come to it, you will see live traffic flows. In the evening peaks, the traffic is backing up towards Culverhouse Cross from J33 .https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4895326,-3.2482596,13z/data=!5m1!1e1

 

[Hwnt52]

The Week In, Week Out programme on BBC One Wales about Cardiff this week was an eye opener and is pretty grim viewing re: Cardiff's poor transport infrastructure.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b08w9473/week-in-week-out-cardiffs-growing-pains

Essentially the 'Plasdwr' housing development on greenfield sites to the West of the city will be relying on people using buses and cycling to work to reduce congestion, which the retired planning expert that contributed to the programme helpfully said, "people only use buses if there's no other option left", so people will still use their cars.
Unless certain roads in Cardiff from the West are closed during the morning and evening peaks to allow high capacity, double decker express buses into town to operate, congestion will reach crisis point (it's almost at this stage now).

Cardiff desperately needs a congestion charge. Forcing people out of their cars is the only solution - behaviour change isn't going to happen with no rail services serving these new developments. Which is bonkers in itself.

The programme on Cardiff’s poor transport infrastructure was depressing viewing but could have been a lot worse if Jason Mohammed had been more probing. There has been no significant investment in Cardiff’s road infrastructure for decades. We still have a situation where it is impossible in north Cardiff to get from east to west without heading into the city centre. There is no bridge over the River Taff for over three miles from Gabalfa to Taff’s Well apart from the M4 which is impossible to access from the Pentrebane / Danescourt area anyway. People who live in the Thornhill / Lisvane area have to use the B4562 to access the M4 east which in parts is a single lane road, an incredible and dangerous situation in 2017. If you live near the Rhymney or Taff rail routes you can of course take the train into town, that is if you can squeeze on to a train and practice being a sardine. To improve the situation we could of course electrify the valley lines, introduce longer trains, open the line to Creigiau, open new stations on the SWML. However, we will then be disgorging hordes of extra people into Queen Street and Central, stations where the infrastructure is totally inadequate. The situation is going to get a lot worse I’m afraid – none of the much talked about investments are going to happen for years if ever. In the meantime thousands of new homes in the north-west and north-east will put thousands of extra people on to an already grid-locked road system. Fortunately for me I’m retired and don’t need to get to work in the morning although I do on occasions have to collect my granddaughter from school, a 5 mile journey that can easily take 45 minutes. I find it’s easier to go to Caerphilly or Pontypridd for shopping than go into town. Cardiff Council’s answer seems to be to get everybody on to buses or bikes (no room for bike lanes of course). The whole situation is utterly depressing.

 

[Gareth Marston]

The snow pictures look to me as if they were taken on the line from Nelson to Dowlais Cae Harris which of course is still open to Cwmbargoed where the rails are over 1200 feet above sea level. As far as I can recall, and I was living in Merthyr in 1979, the tracks were still in situ at Cae Harris although not in regular use. I can remember the occasional train to the Ivor Foundry in Dowlais but I'm not sure when these finished.

Ifor Works closed in 1987. Some more pics this time to the works themselves in summer

http://www.alangeorge.co.uk/radyrtocaeharris.htm

Back on topic though Dowlais once had 4 stations and now none, surely a record? What does the Metro hold for it? I've not seen it specially mentioned but must be a stop on the express bus route between Merthyr and Abergavenny.

 

[Envoy]

It would be really good if a link could be made once again with Pant = the starting point of the Brecon Mountain Railway. As things stand, tourists coming up from Cardiff must first get to Merthyr before getting a local bus up to Pant. On Sundays, only one train every 2 hours runs to Merthyr and only one local bus every hour to Pant. So, the day which is most popular for leisure travel has the worst transport! https://www.bmr.wales

 

[Envoy]

The programme on Cardiff’s poor transport infrastructure was depressing viewing but could have been a lot worse if Jason Mohammed had been more probing. There has been no significant investment in Cardiff’s road infrastructure for decades. We still have a situation where it is impossible in north Cardiff to get from east to west without heading into the city centre. There is no bridge over the River Taff for over three miles from Gabalfa to Taff’s Well apart from the M4 which is impossible to access from the Pentrebane / Danescourt area anyway. People who live in the Thornhill / Lisvane area have to use the B4562 to access the M4 east which in parts is a single lane road, an incredible and dangerous situation in 2017. If you live near the Rhymney or Taff rail routes you can of course take the train into town, that is if you can squeeze on to a train and practice being a sardine. To improve the situation we could of course electrify the valley lines, introduce longer trains, open the line to Creigiau, open new stations on the SWML. However, we will then be disgorging hordes of extra people into Queen Street and Central, stations where the infrastructure is totally inadequate. The situation is going to get a lot worse I’m afraid – none of the much talked about investments are going to happen for years if ever. In the meantime thousands of new homes in the north-west and north-east will put thousands of extra people on to an already grid-locked road system. Fortunately for me I’m retired and don’t need to get to work in the morning although I do on occasions have to collect my granddaughter from school, a 5 mile journey that can easily take 45 minutes. I find it’s easier to go to Caerphilly or Pontypridd for shopping than go into town. Cardiff Council’s answer seems to be to get everybody on to buses or bikes (no room for bike lanes of course). The whole situation is utterly depressing.

The problem that you highlight about ease of travel by road across north Cardiff is spot on. The situation whereby people from Lisvane must go on some ridiculous route via the Pontprennau estate to get to M4J30 is bonkers. They can’t even directly access the business park just to the SE of J30. This same appalling planning is now going to apply to J33 in Cardiff West. A business park to bung up what should be a strategic regional junction allied with a lack of access to the M4 and A4232 from all the new planned developments in this area. This will result in huge amounts of traffic flowing through the village of Groes Faen to reach J34, Radyr to get to the valleys, Llandaff/Fairwater to reach Eastern Avenue/M4 east and St.Fagans to reach Cup Cross/Barry/ the Airport.

 

[gareth950]

Passing through Radyr and Llandaf stations this afternoon I noticed the 'Metro' colour scheme creeping in. The new shelter installed (but not yet open) on P1 at Radyr has a silver/red frame with wood colour seats, and at Llandaf the new station sign is in black lettering, with an orange and red stripe at the top (as opposed to an ATW turquoise stripe) with the railings freshly painted in black. No pics sorry because I was just passing through.

If red/orange/silver is to be the new Metro area colour scheme and rolling stock livery, freshly re-painted ATW 150/2s may be getting yet another re-paint and interior refresh in 18 months time. What a huge waste of money and paint. :roll:

 

[CardiffKid]

Metro branding has started to appear at Radyr and Llandaf.

Both stations have several quite smart looking shelters, expanded car parks and what look like ticket offices under construction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Llandaf_railway_station#/media/File:Llandaf_Station_Sign.jpg

EDIT: Damn it Gareth you beat me to it!

 

[gareth950]

Metro branding has started to appear at Radyr and Llandaf.

Both stations have several quite smart looking shelters, expanded car parks and what look like ticket offices under construction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Llandaf_railway_station#/media/File:Llandaf_Station_Sign.jpg

EDIT: Damn it Gareth you beat me to it!

Thanks for the pic Paul! That's what I was trying to describe.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Metro branding has started to appear at Radyr and Llandaf.

Both stations have several quite smart looking shelters, expanded car parks and what look like ticket offices under construction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Llandaf_railway_station#/media/File:Llandaf_Station_Sign.jpg

EDIT: Damn it Gareth you beat me to it!

Given were in Wales don't hold your breadth that anything is actually happening anytime soon. We had a dedicated bus lane built near the station here in Newtown to facilitate rail/bus integration 15 years ago and its never been used, around 4 years ago Powys CC diverted the T4 Cardiff to Newtown Trawscambria bus away from the station on the pretext that "the railway changes its timetable". The bus shelter and bay have fallen into disuse/disrepair in the meantime however a couple of month ago they installed a new bus stop post next to the smashed up and moss covered shelter.

I'm still waiting to see if any buses come to use it....

 

[CardiffKid]

In terms of visible progress it's taken four and a half years for:

Llandaf and Radyr to have an extension to their car parks
New ticket offices to be constructed
New much needed, but still inadequate shelters to be installed

(all three you could argue should have happened regardless of the Metro)

Oh and a new sign with a red/orange trim.

Hardly the transformation change we were promised three transport ministers ago back in December 2012.

I'm not holding my breath for new lines or stations!

 

[Envoy]

I would have made one of the first priorities sorting out pedestrian access between Cogan Station and the footbridge over the Ely into the so called Sports Village /Bay Pointe area. Already, we have the white water centre, swimming pool and the new ice rink in this area. Throw in the Penarth Marina area and that adds up to the potential of many journeys being made.
The area is shown here:> https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.447768,-3.1847118,740m/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e1

So, the local rail system in south Wales can deliver people to this location from a wide area - often using one train with no change. Unfortunately, they have to try and cross a very busy road in order to get to & from the station - which means that relatively few people do this. Unfortunately, the underpass under the main road was sealed up and a station on the Penarth line was closed. (This would have made a great Park & Ride but unfortunately the planners allowed a Tesco to be built on the site where a car park could have been for such a station. The present Cogan station does however have some parking).

I would have thought that the arch under the main road next to the Cardiff bound track could be used to fit a walkway from the platform - which could then rise up over the railway to link with the Port-Y-Werin footbridge. Thus, Cogan station could become ‘Cogan - for Penarth Marina and Sport Village’.
The relative cost v gain would be massive.

I also think that a shuttle bus say costing £1 return should link Cogan station with Llandough hospital. (A similar link should be made between Heath Halt and Heath Hospital with buses ideally timed for the less frequent trains on the City Line). Signs on the stations should advertise such bus links - should they ever happen. A quick gain for little outlay/risk.

 

[CardiffKid]

I would have made one of the first priorities sorting out pedestrian access between Cogan Station and the footbridge over the Ely into the so called Sports Village /Bay Pointe area. Already, we have the white water centre, swimming pool and the new ice rink in this area. Throw in the Penarth Marina area and that adds up to the potential of many journeys being made.
The area is shown here:> https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.447768,-3.1847118,740m/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e1

So, the local rail system in south Wales can deliver people to this location from a wide area - often using one train with no change. Unfortunately, they have to try and cross a very busy road in order to get to & from the station - which means that relatively few people do this. Unfortunately, the underpass under the main road was sealed up and a station on the Penarth line was closed. (This would have made a great Park & Ride but unfortunately the planners allowed a Tesco to be built on the site where a car park could have been for such a station. The present Cogan station does however have some parking).

I would have thought that the arch under the main road next to the Cardiff bound track could be used to fit a walkway from the platform - which could then rise up over the railway to link with the Port-Y-Werin footbridge. Thus, Cogan station could become ‘Cogan - for Penarth Marina and Sport Village’.
The relative cost v gain would be massive.

I also think that a shuttle bus say costing £1 return should link Cogan station with Llandough hospital. (A similar link should be made between Heath Halt and Heath Hospital with buses ideally timed for the less frequent trains on the City Line). Signs on the stations should advertise such bus links - should they ever happen. A quick gain for little outlay/risk.

Great idea. Cogan currently gets 3tph with a fourth notionally on it's way.
Penarth gets 4tph so imagine if a station could be opened by Tesco (the Old Penarth Docks station) no need for a P&R (although that would be wonderful).

The Cogan/Penarth Dock stations combined would have 7/8 tp hour to/from Cardiff – what a wonderful selling point that would be for both the Sports Village and the flats in both Penarth and that end of Cardiff Bay.

As for the Heath Hospital – I’ll can’t understand why that’s still not included on the Government’s original Metro Map.

That's what I would do and a small station just south of IKEA for Windsor Quay.

 

[gareth950]

Great idea. Cogan currently gets 3tph with a fourth notionally on it's way.
Penarth gets 4tph so imagine if a station could be opened by Tesco (the Old Penarth Docks station) no need for a P&R (although that would be wonderful).

The Cogan/Penarth Dock stations combined would have 7/8 tp hour to/from Cardiff – what a wonderful selling point that would be for both the Sports Village and the flats in both Penarth and that end of Cardiff Bay.

As for the Heath Hospital – I’ll can’t understand why that’s still not included on the Government’s original Metro Map.

That's what I would do and a small station just south of IKEA for Windsor Quay.

I agree with you both Envoy and Paul. Cogan currently gets 4tph though Paul - 3 tph to/from Barry Island and 1 tph to/from the VoG line. Cogan's trains towards Cardiff are also perfectly timed atm at exactly 0:00, 0:15, 0:30 and 0:45 - easy to remember.

Llandough Hospital is within walking distance of Cogan station but it's up a massive great big hill on a steep incline - so not great for patients then!

 

[Envoy]

If a new station was created at Cogan - on the Penarth branch - then, with a connecting walkway going under the main road, it would be possible for people say coming from Llantwit Major, to get to Penarth without having to go all the way to Grangetown and then double back. Of course, Grangetown would be easier for those with limited mobility as it is a straight switch across the platform.

We have seen recent publicity about the expensive and crowded car parks at the hospitals. All the more reason therefore to get a shuttle bus link up and running as soon as possible from Cogan (for Llandough) and Heath Halt (for Heath hospital). Perhaps the Welsh Government could organise it so that those with rail tickets could use the link for free. (If it was free for everybody, those with cars would try and dump their vehicles near the aforementioned stations to use the bus link - clearly not desired as the aim must be to get them on public transport as near to home as possible.

I don’t think that another station near IKEA is desirable as we would end up with too many stops. Already, we have seven stops between Rhoose and Cardiff Central. A foot link could be made quite easily from Grangetown station to IKEA by bridging the coast bound track and using the old railway line running alongside IKEA for the footpath. (A pity the Cardiff Bay Development Corporation did not safeguard this route all the way southward as a potential future rail route).

 

[Envoy]

One place where I think a large P&R could be built is on the east side of Barry. The land is presently farmland / solar farm. Such a P&R with free parking, would ‘capture’ a hell of a lot of traffic leaving Sully/Barry and induce them to use the trains. This would surely justify inserting this extra stop on the Vale Coast Line? Click the link and you will see the location near the centre of view - just east of the A4231.https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4137595,-3.2296036,2947m/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e1

 

[gareth950]

I wouldn't hold your breath for all these ideas Envoy, as Ken Skates has already gone on TV news saying that "I want the Metro to be all about the Valleys" e.g. the WG bonkers tram proposals. I do wonder if anyone from TfW or in WG has been on a trip from the heads of the valleys all the way to Cardiff to try and even imagine what the journey would be like on a tram.

The parking situation at Llandough hospital is dire, and the expansion of the hospital isn't even complete yet. There's simply no room left anywhere in Llandough for car parking - bus links with Cogan train station are the only solution.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wouldn't hold your breath for all these ideas Envoy, as Ken Skates has already gone on TV news saying that "I want the Metro to be all about the Valleys" e.g. the WG bonkers tram proposals. I do wonder if anyone from TfW or in WG has been on a trip from the heads of the valleys all the way to Cardiff to try and even imagine what the journey would be like on a tram.

Not an awful lot different from, say, Metrolink?

 

[Hwnt52]

Not an awful lot different from, say, Metrolink?

Except that Rhymney for example is nearly 1000 feet above sea-level and over twice the distance from Cardiff that Bury is from Manchester.

 

[gareth950]

Not an awful lot different from, say, Metrolink?

See Hwnt52's post

 

[Envoy]

Is the Welsh Government still planning a split system for north of Cardiff / the coast line?

 

[gareth950]

Is the Welsh Government still planning a split system for north of Cardiff / the coast line?

If trams are adopted for the 'core valleys' north of Central / Queen St, then it will be inevitable. It all depends on whether NR can reach agreement on devolution of the 'core valley lines' to Welsh Govt. This agreement still has not been reached.

More info in this subscription article from 21st July here

Skates revealed this week that agreement had still not been reached for the transfer of the Valley Lines from Network Rail to the Welsh Government.

“Discussions are also ongoing between officials, supported by Transport for Wales and Network Rail, regarding the transfer of the Core Valleys Lines to Welsh Government, opening the opportunity for us to ask our bidders to put forward innovative and cost-effective rail solutions in the region,” he told the Assembly.

I'm still yet to hear anyone from Welsh Govt explain exactly why Pontypridd - Cardiff is classed as a 'Core' route, and so by implication a more important / key route worthy of investment, whilst Barry - Cardiff is seemingly being downgraded to a 'non-Core', less important route and so if lucky will just get some new DMUs.

 

[Envoy]

Many thanks gareth950 for clarifying where we stand as of now. It would be dreadful for the system to be split at Cardiff.

I note that Cardiff Council have failed to deliver the new bus / coach station and that on-going discussions are taking place with developers. Looking at the BBC building and the new blocks just to its west, it would appear that Cardiff’s planners are just flogging off land to Rightacres who are out to gain maximum revenue from that land. The new ‘streets’ that are being created are nothing but narrow urban canyons where the sun will rarely shine. Not exactly what one would expect! Looks like little room is being left for the expansion of the Central Station. (The new BBC building is rather close).

Perhaps it would be better for a decent bus/coach station to be built on the south side of the Central Station? (It is only a short walk under the railway into the central area of the city). It would also mean that pedestrian access from the station to the shopping areas would not be crossed by buses/coaches. Another advantage would be that long distance buses/coaches could access the M4 by going south - down Lloyd George Avenue to a stop at the Bay prior to taking the A4232 east or west to the M4. (National Express, Megabus etc. would not have to traverse major highways in Cardiff such as North Road and Westgate Street and they would not hinder pedestrian flows in and out of the Central Station - north side.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wa...ation-13367126

Quote:
The plans for Cardiff’s new state-of-the-art bus station have been thrown into disarray, we can reveal.

The long awaited multi-million pound scheme in the heart of the city centre cannot go ahead in its current form, according to the developer.
[/QUOTE]

 

[gareth950]

I was in Cardiff yesterday - just how close are the BBC going to get to Central station? Crazy.

 

[CardiffKid]

I was in Cardiff yesterday - just how close are the BBC going to get to Central station? Crazy.

The edge of the BBC building is roughly inline with the old bus station (of course the building is much higher) there's still a good 30-40 meters between the station and the building. I would imagine fairly soon some type of pavement/paving stones will fill the fenced off section in your photographs.

I never could get an idea from Network Rail's artist impressions by how far forward they wanted to extend the main station building out by.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/video-showing-how-redeveloped-cardiff-11770000

 

[daikilo]

The edge of the BBC building is roughly inline with the old bus station (of course the building is much higher) there's still a good 30-40 meters between the station and the building. I would imagine fairly soon some type of pavement/paving stones will fill the fenced off section in your photographs.

I never could get an idea from Network Rail's artist impressions by how far forward they wanted to extend the main station building out by.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/video-showing-how-redeveloped-cardiff-11770000

When does that clip date from as there are some significant differences to the awnings compared to those used for the bus station video simulations.

It looks to me that the current awnings are about where the inside edge of the escalators to the upper floor are, thus the new glass frontage is say 15 feet further out than the edge of the current awnings, and the new ones extend beyond the glass screens.

Overall it looks like one hell of an improvement.

 

[CardiffKid]

When does that clip date from as there are some significant differences to the awnings compared to those used for the bus station video simulations.

It looks to me that the current awnings are about where the inside edge of the escalators to the upper floor are, thus the new glass frontage is say 15 feet further out than the edge of the current awnings, and the new ones extend beyond the glass screens.

Overall it looks like one hell of an improvement.

That video is 12 months old and done by Network Rail. It's just a concept and wouldn't ave been done in conjunction with the/any bus station plans.

The first set of escalators you see (east/Newport side of the station) appear to be leavel with the original/current station frontage, where as the second set (West/Bridend) apear to be where M&S is.

As I said I can't quite work out how far outwards (northwards) from the current station front wall Network Rail are/were proposing to build - I guess it could be a minimum of 15m?