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How would staff transfer to a renationalised British Rail?

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Wearsunscreen

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Apologies if this has been covered before but for those in the know (or those who can predict the future), If corbyn (labour) was to get his way and rail would once again be nationalised, how could this affect those employed currently by the tocs focusing more on the drivers but also all employees?

Obviously there can be no right or wrong answers here but educated guesses for those who follow this sort of thing as I clearly don't.

Thanks
 
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mirodo

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I imagine they would be TUPEd across to the new govt owned company, much as they are under current franchise changes.
 

Mugby

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I imagine they would be TUPEd across to the new govt owned company, much as they are under current franchise changes.

I'd say so, pretty much the exact reverse of what happened when the TOCs were first formed.
 

Wearsunscreen

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What about the long term affects? I've personally worked for her majesty for the last 5 years I mostly have negative things to say about the experience (upper management beyond the establishments management) alas it was the prison service and as those you follow the prison news will know its in a right **** state at the minute. Im talking change of policy, no longer becoming a profit / performance organisation to becoming a service only provider. I personally can't see how nationalisation can be a good thing in this case, but I'm open to hear otherwise.
 

nuneatonmark

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In summary you get will responses largely along the lines of 'The private corporations/foreign rail companies are profiteering *******s, nothing will improve unless the government replaces the ToCs, it should be a public service not a way of rich people getting richer etc etc', from those who would fully nationalise the railways (Bear in in mind the railways are not privatised in any way shape or form at present, they are franchises, big difference). Then from those who object to nationalisation will say 'The old British Railways was crap, we have lots of new services that British Railways would never have invested in, some of the ToCs are really quite good' etc etc

The reality is that the government dictates almost everything in the railway industry, timetables, most fares, most infrastructure investment etc etc. Franchising is way of transferring risk to the private sector at a cost, the cost being the profit that the ToCs and ROSCOs make. It's also quite an effective way of watering down union power. Had the Southern DCO/DOO issue occurred when BR was fully nationalised then the strikes would probably have affected the whole country IMHO. The government would say that the cost incurred in the profits of the private companies is offset by savings of using more 'efficient' private companies, whether you believe that is another thing entirely. It probably would be 'cheaper' to run as a whole as a fully nationalised railway.

Personally I think that franchising is ok as long as the Government runs it properly which it often doesn't.
 
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ChiefPlanner

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The hard work of setting up business units , "shadow train operating companies" etc was done in about 2 years from 1992 to 1994 , when complete the "TOC's" were vested and the employees advised accordingly by personal letter. Bad news for "Central Services" like self as an employee of NSE HQ , and many others , who were very easily picked off with redundancy letters , unless another job was found.

Quite easy to therefore "de-vest" TOC's , IMHO
 

Clip

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I'm not sure you can nationalise a company that doesn't exist anymore.

However if he did get in and want to renationalise the railways then its going to happen 2 ways - buying out the franchises or not re-letting them again.

The first option will cost big money and the second option may never happen if he doesn't win a second term.

Also a subject done to death on here
 

urbophile

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As I understand the model for London buses, the system, timetables, fare structure etc is determined by the central (public) authority, and the actual buses are provided by franchisees, but adopting the branding as well as the above of TfL.

If this tightly controlled way of involving the private sector is a compromise that works well in that case, why not in the case of TOCs under a national authority? In principle not that different from what we have at present, but with better co-ordination.
 

matt_world2004

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As I understand the model for London buses, the system, timetables, fare structure etc is determined by the central (public) authority, and the actual buses are provided by franchisees, but adopting the branding as well as the above of TfL.

If this tightly controlled way of involving the private sector is a compromise that works well in that case, why not in the case of TOCs under a national authority? In principle not that different from what we have at present, but with better co-ordination.

This is the model alsp used by gtr, atw and London Overground the fact is if you mess up the contract you can mess things up badly.
 
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