London to Cardiff frequency

[sjoh]

I may be imagining things, but I could swear the frequency used to be every 30 mins with one an hour continuing to Swansea?
Did this ever happen or am I totally losing it?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Is that not what it is now?

 

[greatkingrat]

It is normally half hourly to Cardiff but there is engineering work this week and next week which has reduced the frequency to hourly.

 

[cactustwirly]

It's only 2tph on weekdays, weekends only have the 1tph to Swansea.

 

[dk1]

Cardiff is often a low priority when special events are on in the SW & sets/crews are at a premium. It can often revert to hourly at these times but currently I think it's due to major works near Bristol Parkway.

 

[PHILIPE]

Cardiff is often a low priority when special events are on in the SW & sets/crews are at a premium. It can often revert to hourly at these times but currently I think it's due to major works near Bristol Parkway.

Yes. Due to Bristol Parkway at the moment. Events which reduce the service include Cheltenham Races and Glastonbury Festival.

 

[Parallel]

Also, if there is disruption towards Reading and London it is usually one of the first HST services to be cancelled, usually followed by the Cheltenham Spas.

 

[sjoh]

Something else I've noticed about this corridor is that the 2 hourly Cheltenham is rather stupidly* timetabled to sit right in front of the Swansea every other hour at Swindon. Presumably this sort of thing will be changed in the recast if they're hoping to make the Spa hourly.

*I'm sure there is a perfectly valid reason for it, but no idea what it is.

 

[ChrisHogan]

Cardiff is often a low priority when special events are on in the SW & sets/crews are at a premium. It can often revert to hourly at these times but currently I think it's due to major works near Bristol Parkway.

I think you will find that an hourly service to Swansea is all that is specified in FGW/GWR's Train Service Requirement.

 

[ChrisHogan]

Something else I've noticed about this corridor is that the 2 hourly Cheltenham is rather stupidly* timetabled to sit right in front of the Swansea every other hour at Swindon. Presumably this sort of thing will be changed in the recast if they're hoping to make the Spa hourly.

*I'm sure there is a perfectly valid reason for it, but no idea what it is.

They used to be xx 48 from Paddn rather than xx 36. They were moved for timetabling reasons several years ago (was the Reading works?) and haven't yet moved back.

It is difficult to make the Cheltenhams fit into a logical pattern (i.e. a semi-fast via Swindon every 12 minutes) if you are running to South Wales half-hourly and similarly to Bristol via Box, and with the Heathrow Express hard-wired to their 15-minute slots. Even more difficult when the Bristol fasts are added to the timetable after IEP introduction.

 

[sjoh]

They used to be xx 48 from Paddn rather than xx 36. They were moved for timetabling reasons several years ago (was the Reading works?) and haven't yet moved back.

It is difficult to make the Cheltenhams fit into a logical pattern (i.e. a semi-fast via Swindon every 12 minutes) if you are running to South Wales half-hourly and similarly to Bristol via Box, and with the Heathrow Express hard-wired to their 15-minute slots. Even more difficult when the Bristol fasts are added to the timetable after IEP introduction.

Would something like this work (assuming Bristol fasts are via P/way)?
xx00 Bristol fast
xx03 HX
xx08 Cheltenham
xx11 Bristol semi
xx15 Cardiff
xx18 HX
xx23 Plymouth
xx27 Oxford/Malverns
xx30 Bristol fast
xx33 HX
xx38 spare ---
xx41 Bristol semi
xx45 Swansea
xx48 HX
xx53 spare ---Bedwyn/Newbury?
xx57 Oxford/Malverns

 

[Dai Corner]

I think you will find that an hourly service to Swansea is all that is specified in FGW/GWR's Train Service Requirement.

That's interesting. Once there are half-hourly Paddinton-Parkway-Temple Meads trains it becomes more difficult to justify the second South Wales service commercially.

 

[Ianno87]

Would something like this work (assuming Bristol fasts are via P/way)?
xx00 Bristol fast
xx03 HX
xx08 Cheltenham
xx11 Bristol semi
xx15 Cardiff
xx18 HX
xx23 Plymouth
xx27 Oxford/Malverns
xx30 Bristol fast
xx33 HX
xx38 spare ---
xx41 Bristol semi
xx45 Swansea
xx48 HX
xx53 spare ---Bedwyn/Newbury?
xx57 Oxford/Malverns

Doesn't exactly spread Swindon's services well
08/11/15 then 41/45.

You'd really need to structure it around having the Bristols c every 15 minutes, with the Cardiffs flighted behind the Bristol fasts, then build the rest of the pattern from that.

 

[306024]

Would something like this work (assuming Bristol fasts are via P/way)?
xx00 Bristol fast
xx03 HX
xx08 Cheltenham
xx11 Bristol semi
xx15 Cardiff
xx18 HX
xx23 Plymouth
xx27 Oxford/Malverns
xx30 Bristol fast
xx33 HX
xx38 spare ---
xx41 Bristol semi
xx45 Swansea
xx48 HX
xx53 spare ---Bedwyn/Newbury?
xx57 Oxford/Malverns

Impossible to say without seeing the timetable for the opposite direction, the turnround times and platform occupation at each terminus, all the stopping patterns and the effect all that has on the crew diagrams.

HX are as commented hard-wired at 10/25/40/55 from Paddington, so good luck changing that before you even start with the rest.

Looking at population figures Cardiff appears to be about twice the size of Norwich. If Norwich to London justifies 2 trains per hour (to become 3 in future), you would think Cardiff should be at least similar.

 

[sjoh]

Doesn't exactly spread Swindon's services well
08/11/15 then 41/45.

You'd really need to structure it around having the Bristols c every 15 minutes, with the Cardiffs flighted behind the Bristol fasts, then build the rest of the pattern from that.

Ah, I was under the impression the Bristol fasts would be stopping at Swindon.

 

[ChrisHogan]

Doesn't exactly spread Swindon's services well
08/11/15 then 41/45.

You'd really need to structure it around having the Bristols c every 15 minutes, with the Cardiffs flighted behind the Bristol fasts, then build the rest of the pattern from that.

Not sure that works - the fasts will take about 80 minutes; the semi-fasts about 100 minutes. If they are 15 minutes apart, the fast train will arrive before the preceding semi-fast.

I thought the plan was 57 and 27s from Paddn (off-peak) preceding the semi-fasts and creaming off the Temple Meads traffic giving a fairly evenly spaced service to Bristol Parkway at 15,27,45,57 from London.

 

[Richard_B]

If you move the Plymouth back from the ~xx06 it currently has, the Taunton to Plymouth stretch will have the GWR about 10 mins apart from the XC rather then the nice roughly 30mins they are currently.

 

[dk1]

I think you will find that an hourly service to Swansea is all that is specified in FGW/GWR's Train Service Requirement.

I don't doubt it.

 

[swt_passenger]

That's interesting. Once there are half-hourly Paddinton-Parkway-Temple Meads trains it becomes more difficult to justify the second South Wales service commercially.

In the franchise brief, some of the half hourly Bristol services via Parkway are shown as rerouted in the peaks, to form an additional service via Bath and an additional service to Swansea.

 

[CapitalStar378]

That's interesting. Once there are half-hourly Paddinton-Parkway-Temple Meads trains it becomes more difficult to justify the second South Wales service commercially.

Rather than reducing services the plan is for 3 tph at peak times to/from Cardiff AFAIK.

I'd imagine that all services would be a bit busier if GWR offered less extortionate fares too, maybe a few more cheaper advance tickets than the handful they seem to offer these days.

 

[Envoy]

What is the point of basically having a turn up and go frequency without reasonable turn up and go fares? Say somebody lands at Heathrow Airport and wishes to go to Bristol or Cardiff. To get a ‘cheap’ fare, they will have to have pre-booked a specific train say 10 weeks earlier. Now, they don’t know if the plane will be on time or how long it will take to get to Reading (or Paddington) to catch the train west so they allow plenty of leeway. They then arrive early due to this leeway and have to sit and watch numerous trains heading off west before they can board their pre-booked service. How frustrating is that - especially as they see plenty of empty seats on these trains. (They might also be tired having done a long flight).

This is no way to run a railway. What matters to the train companies is supply and demand. They know when the greatest demand is going to be for services and should simply adjust their pay & go prices accordingly. Surely, all services heading west between 9.45am and 15.00 are going to have roughly the same (off peak) demand? Only special events are likely to skew the predicted regular levels of demand.

 

[TheWalrus]

Ah, I was under the impression the Bristol fasts would be stopping at Swindon.

I believe last time I looked the Bristol fasts were non-stop to Parkway.

 

[ValleyLines142]

What is the point of basically having a turn up and go frequency without reasonable turn up and go fares? Say somebody lands at Heathrow Airport and wishes to go to Bristol or Cardiff. To get a ‘cheap’ fare, they will have to have pre-booked a specific train say 10 weeks earlier. Now, they don’t know if the plane will be on time or how long it will take to get to Reading (or Paddington) to catch the train west so they allow plenty of leeway. They then arrive early due to this leeway and have to sit and watch numerous trains heading off west before they can board their pre-booked service. How frustrating is that - especially as they see plenty of empty seats on these trains. (They might also be tired having done a long flight).

This is no way to run a railway. What matters to the train companies is supply and demand. They know when the greatest demand is going to be for services and should simply adjust their pay & go prices accordingly. Surely, all services heading west between 9.45am and 15.00 are going to have roughly the same (off peak) demand? Only special events are likely to skew the predicted regular levels of demand.

Spot on. Happened to me when I got back from China. Caught the first train to Paddington and was an hour earlier than I expected. So glad I didn't have to wait there for ages after an almost 24 hour flight.