Lewes Bonfire 04/11/2017

[tsr]

Well said. It is not necessary to suspend all service; set down restrictions for the period would have been sufficient.
But there are people in society who want everything to be either prohibited or compulsory.

I’m not sure you have correctly interpreted the post you quoted, as it strikes me as not at all being in sympathy with what you’ve posted.

From my personal perspective (in railway operations!), I can vouch for two things:
1 - Lewes Bonfire has previously resulted in massive strain, including significant crowd control issues, for those running the trains through the area.
2 - “Set down restrictions” are almost never well respected, especially in the South of England, and often end up with people realising the doors will open and they can get off the train anyway. This means you still have to prepare for the influx of people entering the station. However, this is not the real problem - the main issues, especially with bonfires and fireworks displays, are that they tend to result in a lot of people all trying to get home at once, also in a hurry when they get fed up with the fact it is quite cold and boring once events are over, and since they do not operate near dedicated infrastructure (unlike many major sports venues etc.) but usually in older towns and villages, it is hard to implement a sensible queuing system.

 

[Robertj21a]

Well said. It is not necessary to suspend all service; set down restrictions for the period would have been sufficient.
But there are people in society who want everything to be either prohibited or compulsory.

I can only assume that you simply do not understand the problems at Lewes when they celebrate Bonfire Night ? Have you attended ?

 

[Antman]

Well said. It is not necessary to suspend all service; set down restrictions for the period would have been sufficient.
But there are people in society who want everything to be either prohibited or compulsory.

Set down restrictions? And how exactly is that going to work?

 

[Jonny]

Set down restrictions? And how exactly is that going to work?

I'm not sure if this is an answer to the question per se, but it is a solution to the problem...
Require all passengers... for safety reasons... to have a valid ticket to remain on the train at Lewes???

 

[6Gman]

Well said. It is not necessary to suspend all service; set down restrictions for the period would have been sufficient.
But there are people in society who want everything to be either prohibited or compulsory.

Sorry, Set Down restrictions where and for what period?

 

[NorthernSpirit]

After reading through all posts, this is my solution to the annual Lewes Bonfire event.

Firstly, the organisers could bring the British Army in to "police" the event since resources are a bit thin on the ground either that or get the Met to patrol it.

Secondly, the organisers should do the parade at 11pm and then spark up the bonfire and set the fireworks off at 1am. This would mean that Southern could still run rail services to the town but not after 5pm which would allow six hours to fully cordon off Lewes.

Thirdly, Southern fully utilises Newhaven Marine as a turn back with a hot unit in the siding there to be used for a sole Lewes to Brighton service that would depart Lewes at around 1830 for those (i.e clubgoers) not wanting to see a huge fire hazard in the East Sussex County Town. In effect Newhaven Marine > Lewes ECS then Lewes > Brighton in service - this being the last train, which would have to be patroled with someone escorting around groups of ten down at any one go. Again, you bring in the armed forces to ensure that no one gets injured on the station.

Draft in Compass Bus to run a shuttle service out of town, which would give clubgoers another means of escape.

 

[Domh245]

set the fireworks off at 1am.

That'll make them popular with locals...

 

[theironroad]

After reading through all posts, this is my solution to the annual Lewes Bonfire event.

Firstly, the organisers could bring the British Army in to "police" the event since resources are a bit thin on the ground either that or get the Met to patrol it.

Secondly, the organisers should do the parade at 11pm and then spark up the bonfire and set the fireworks off at 1am. This would mean that Southern could still run rail services to the town but not after 5pm which would allow six hours to fully cordon off Lewes.

Thirdly, Southern fully utilises Newhaven Marine as a turn back with a hot unit in the siding there to be used for a sole Lewes to Brighton service that would depart Lewes at around 1830 for those (i.e clubgoers) not wanting to see a huge fire hazard in the East Sussex County Town. In effect Newhaven Marine > Lewes ECS then Lewes > Brighton in service - this being the last train, which would have to be patroled with someone escorting around groups of ten down at any one go. Again, you bring in the armed forces to ensure that no one gets injured on the station.

Draft in Compass Bus to run a shuttle service out of town, which would give clubgoers another means of escape.

Please tell me this whole post is a sarcastic wind up.......

Don't think the met police would be too happy policing an event in Sussex, nor would the local police force.

Don't think the military would be too happy either being mobilised to act as a glorified g4s security operation.

I've never been to Lewes bonfire so don't know the logistics. In reality I'm sure it could be operated with a train service still provided but sounds like it would need a major security and safety operation set up. This would mean that private security firms would have to be hired and the event becomes chargeable or voluntary donations and expectations managed that there could be long waits to get in and home. With plenty of planning, more TOC or charter trains could be utilised.

If the police believe that the event has outgrown itself then maybe it needs to be relocated or reduced in size by the organisers.

 

[jopsuk]

I think there's a lot of missing the point that the issue isn't the railway operation itself, or the safety at the station. It's that the town itself had too many people and the local council and the bonfire societies wanted to reduce the number of people in the town. Removing the rail service is a means to that end.

 

[6Gman]

If the police believe that the event has outgrown itself then maybe it needs to be relocated or reduced in size by the organisers.

From a vantage point a long, long way from Lewes I get the impression this is exactly what the organisers would like to see! Unfortunately it's not within their power to stop people attending.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Please tell me this whole post is a sarcastic wind up.......

Nope. The idea behind having a later start at the event would mean that those nearby could attend and would "put off" those traipsing from elsewhere in Sussex but at the same time allowing some sort of rail service to allow those going about their daily lives regardless of the annual fire hazard that is the Lewes Bonfire display.

Surely the organisers could have drafted in local tv provider Latest TV to cover the event (and network it to others such as Made, Estury and Notts TV to show it in their areas so that thoses planning on going to see it can see it in their own home. They could even get Southern to sponsor the event) and no that is not a wind up either.

 

[theironroad]

Nope. The idea behind having a later start at the event would mean that those nearby could attend and would "put off" those traipsing from elsewhere in Sussex but at the same time allowing some sort of rail service to allow those going about their daily lives regardless of the annual fire hazard that is the Lewes Bonfire display.

Surely the organisers could have drafted in local tv provider Latest TV to cover the event (and network it to others such as Made, Estury and Notts TV to show it in their areas so that thoses planning on going to see it can see it in their own home. They could even get Southern to sponsor the event) and no that is not a wind up either.

I'm not sure fireworks going off at 0100 is great for anyone and people want to see the real event, smell the smoke not watch it on TV.

 

[Holly]

Set down restrictions? And how exactly is that going to work?

Instead of not stopping at certain times the trains can stop for pick up only. Boarding, but not alighting, to be allowed at Lewes during the subject period. Better than not stopping at all.

 

[the sniper]

Instead of not stopping at certain times the trains can stop for pick up only. Boarding, but not alighting, to be allowed at Lewes during the subject period. Better than not stopping at all.

Quite sure he understands the theory, it's how it'd work in practice you'd have to question...

 

[Robertj21a]

After reading through all posts, this is my solution to the annual Lewes Bonfire event.

Firstly, the organisers could bring the British Army in to "police" the event since resources are a bit thin on the ground either that or get the Met to patrol it.

Secondly, the organisers should do the parade at 11pm and then spark up the bonfire and set the fireworks off at 1am. This would mean that Southern could still run rail services to the town but not after 5pm which would allow six hours to fully cordon off Lewes.

Thirdly, Southern fully utilises Newhaven Marine as a turn back with a hot unit in the siding there to be used for a sole Lewes to Brighton service that would depart Lewes at around 1830 for those (i.e clubgoers) not wanting to see a huge fire hazard in the East Sussex County Town. In effect Newhaven Marine > Lewes ECS then Lewes > Brighton in service - this being the last train, which would have to be patroled with someone escorting around groups of ten down at any one go. Again, you bring in the armed forces to ensure that no one gets injured on the station.

Draft in Compass Bus to run a shuttle service out of town, which would give clubgoers another means of escape.

That just has to be a wind up. Nobody with a brain would think that's even remotely sensible.

 

[Antman]

Instead of not stopping at certain times the trains can stop for pick up only. Boarding, but not alighting, to be allowed at Lewes during the subject period. Better than not stopping at all.

And how exactly do you prevent people from getting off?

 

[dctraindriver]

Nope. The idea behind having a later start at the event would mean that those nearby could attend and would "put off" those traipsing from elsewhere in Sussex but at the same time allowing some sort of rail service to allow those going about their daily lives regardless of the annual fire hazard that is the Lewes Bonfire display.

Surely the organisers could have drafted in local tv provider Latest TV to cover the event (and network it to others such as Made, Estury and Notts TV to show it in their areas so that thoses planning on going to see it can see it in their own home. They could even get Southern to sponsor the event) and no that is not a wind up either.

Are you for real? Local TV? LMAO

 

[LowLevel]

Funniest thing I've read all week Deploy the military to police a local bonfire indeed!!

 

[Llanigraham]

Instead of not stopping at certain times the trains can stop for pick up only. Boarding, but not alighting, to be allowed at Lewes during the subject period. Better than not stopping at all.

Great idea BUT how do you stop people getting off? It is not possible.
(Read threads on here about the "pick-up only" at Reading and the problems that causes)

 

[Mathew S]

That just has to be a wind up. Nobody with a brain would think that's even remotely sensible.

I'd hope so too, but this is an internet forum...

 

[bussnapperwm]

Great idea BUT how do you stop people getting off? It is not possible.
(Read threads on here about the "pick-up only" at Reading and the problems that causes)

Easy. Have a massive RPI Block and fine anyone who gets off, then force them back onto the next train...but let only those who have proof of residency leave the station.

Just think of all the extra revenue!!!

 

[yorkie]

Easy. Have a massive RPI Block and fine anyone who gets off, then force them back onto the next train...but let only those who have proof of residency leave the station.

Just think of all the extra revenue!!!

This is a joke, right?

 

[Llanigraham]

Easy. Have a massive RPI Block and fine anyone who gets off, then force them back onto the next train...but let only those who have proof of residency leave the station.

Just think of all the extra revenue!!!

Totally and utterly preposterous!!
Putting it bluntly, you do not have a clue.

 

[bussnapperwm]

This is a joke, right?

Yeah it was...but it's something that GTR, or if ever Northern were in charge, would do...given half a chance. Especially with all the media reports of people fined by those two establishments.

 

[3141]

Surely the organisers could have drafted in local tv provider Latest TV to cover the event (and network it to others such as Made, Estury and Notts TV to show it in their areas so that thoses planning on going to see it can see it in their own home. They could even get Southern to sponsor the event) and no that is not a wind up either.

This is a brilliant idea with huge potential. All those football matches that take place every Saturday, with large numbers of people travelling up and down the country by train or by road, could be shown on TV and then everyone could watch them in the comfort of their home, with a six-pack and takeaway pizza beside their chair. There'd be a huge reduction in police overtime. The same approach could be extended to things like political demonstrations too: that pro-Palestine demo I saw in Parliament Square yesterday afternoon, with large numbers of police present and in reserve, and which delayed bus services through the area, could all have been followed on TV, and the pro-Israel counter-demonstrators who held up the march towards Parliament Square could have registered their views by switching off.

This would solve so many problems, and once it's all in place and Saturday afternoons have become peaceful and relaxed we can all feel proud that "You saw it on RailUKforums first!"

 

[yorkie]

Yeah it was...

Oh dear.

You say it is "easy". How much experience do you have in this area? I don't claim to be an expert on event management, but I would not have thought it would be "easy" at all!

How do you "force" people onto a train without the risk of committing an assault?

What if a local resident does not have proof of residency? Who carries such proof with them on their daily business anyway?

This is bizarre and unworkable.

Nope.

Oh dear again. Just not going to happen.

 

[Ianigsy]

This has rather moved away from anything railway related. Southern obviously have little option but to comply with what has been asked of them.

I suspect that if they refused to comply, the ball would be batted back to the local authority and to a lesser extent the organisers, as it would then become an issue of whether the event could be held at all. A "community" bonfire a few miles away from here made the news after the council carted it away midweek- the bonfire had been held for nearly 40 years on an informal basis and on council land, but because there was no organising committee as such, in the event of an accident it would have been practically impossible to pin any liability on anybody other than the council as owners of the land.

 

[robbeech]

This is a brilliant idea with huge potential. All those football matches that take place every Saturday, with large numbers of people travelling up and down the country by train or by road, could be shown on TV and then everyone could watch them in the comfort of their home, with a six-pack and takeaway pizza beside their chair. There'd be a huge reduction in police overtime. The same approach could be extended to things like political demonstrations too: that pro-Palestine demo I saw in Parliament Square yesterday afternoon, with large numbers of police present and in reserve, and which delayed bus services through the area, could all have been followed on TV, and the pro-Israel counter-demonstrators who held up the march towards Parliament Square could have registered their views by switching off.

This would solve so many problems, and once it's all in place and Saturday afternoons have become peaceful and relaxed we can all feel proud that "You saw it on RailUKforums first!"

You definitely have this sussed. We could get rid of live music events like festivals and arena shows too , simply pop into your local record store or log in to iTunes (other digital media distributors are available) and purchase the songs you like. That way, you don't have to listen to the ones you don't like, you can have it as loud or quiet as you want, it's not £6 a for a pint of stuff that tastes of paraffin and you don't have to park 8 nautical miles away or get a train bursting at the seams. Solves a lot of problems, and I would get to retire early.

 

[OxtedSignaller]

Yeah it was...but it's something that GTR, or if ever Northern were in charge, would do...given half a chance. Especially with all the media reports of people fined by those two establishments.

Really? Southern don’t even employ RPIs anymore...

It all just seems a bit excessive. I understand them closing Lewes but was it really necessary to close all the stations I bet it cause chaos for the regular commuters who are commuting to Brighton the main employment hub on the Sussex Coast. All sounds a bit NIMBY on the part of the local council either that or the police can’t be bothered to police and crowd control properly... Did they shut all the roads leading to Lewes or just the railway

 

[jopsuk]

Did they shut all the roads leading to Lewes or just the railway

The roads were closed, map is down to the bottom here

All because, and this seems to need repeating, they've had serious problems with excessive numbers of people attending.