2018 infrastructure/rolling-stock investment - enough to silence the critics?

[47802]

So we get plenty of moans on here about the state of the UK railways despite the fact there is currently massive investment in the railways, unfortunately much of that has a long lead time and NR's vastly over budget and late electrification hasn't helped, but 2018 will start to see some of the fruits of that investment, including at the start of the New Year we get 387's to Didcot, more electrified route for IET's and the start of a significant cascade of Turbo Units to Bristol, HST's to Scotland, more DMU's for Northern, also later in the year full electric service between Glasgow and Edinburgh completion of Blackpool - Manchester electrification etc. etc.

Will this shut some of the moaners up? although I don't expect moaning about the seats will stop

 

[6Gman]

No.

There will still be:

Pacers
Voyagers (don't mind them myself, but plenty on here do ...)
Regular "wires down" incidents
Poor communication during disruption
Complicated fares
Fares regarded as too high
Overcrowding

etc etc etc

and, most important of all, Knutsford will still have an inadequate service.

 

[Pete_uk]

There is ALWAYS something to moan about!

 

[TheBigD]

Deleted

 

[Jnismith]

Thameslink commuters from Flitwick, Harlington, Leagrave and Harpenden aren’t going to be happy either losing 2 trains per hour in the rush hour.

 

[AM9]

Thameslink commuters from Flitwick, Harlington, Leagrave and Harpenden aren’t going to be happy either losing 2 trains per hour in the rush hour.

How does the new timetable compare with the old on that? - i.e. how many trains per hour and their formations both before and after.

 

[Failed Unit]

Users on Great Northern stations, in particular Potters Bar, Hatfield and Welwyn Garden City (3 of the busiest stations on the route) are not looking forward to 2018.

Peak users have to look forward to.

Slower journeys. 30 Mins rather than the current 20.
Less seats
More expensive
Less frequent.

No idea when services will go through the Thameslink core (if ever) 2020 is the current predicted date. (Which is really the same as December 2019 before the pendents jump on that)

 

[QueensCurve]

Will 2018 investment shut the moaners up?
A somewhat confrontational thread title, but the short answer is no.

Previous levels of investment, as far as the infrastructure is concerned, have relied on Network rail's "Credit card". This has now been cut up. Bean counters in the treasury will frustrate infrastructure spending.

 

[Darandio]

Will 2018 investment shut the moaners up? A somewhat confrontational thread title, but the short answer is no.

Indeed, it reads as 2018 is the year when everything becomes fine and dandy. It doesn't, it's all a continuing mess.

 

[Dentonian]

Short answer is No. But as with other things in British life, how much of it is Rail users moaning, whilst bus users (generally treated far worse by any measure) just shut up and take it - and how much of it is the Media and lobbyists broadcasting rail users moans, whilst denying the very existence of bus users. This week alone we have had YouGov (an American "shamocracy" website) voicing their opinions about London (only) Rail commuters and Which reporting on Rail users - both widely covered by the BBC. When did YouGov, Which? etc etc ever survey bus passengers. And if they did, would the Media report their findings?
And yes, its not just rail, but motorists too (albeit they are often one and the same), with constant Media campaigns to cut parking costs either throughout Britain or just at Hospitals (as in the Mirror this week)? Note my point is not the validity or otherwise of the argument, its the fact that they are given a voice, when others aren't.
What was it James Otis said? "No taxation without representation". Try telling the BBC....

 

[Failed Unit]

Indeed, it reads as 2018 is the year when everything becomes fine and dandy. It doesn't, it's all a continuing mess.

Lots of unfunded problems such as EMT fleet enhancements.

 

[B&I]

Will 2018 be the year when any discussion of any possible improvements to the railways (except HS2) gets banned from this forum?

 

[PeterY]

No.

There will still be:

Pacers
Voyagers (don't mind them myself, but plenty on here do ...)
Regular "wires down" incidents
Poor communication during disruption
Complicated fares
Fares regarded as too high
Overcrowding

etc etc etc

and, most important of all, Knutsford will still have an inadequate service.

And the daily signal failure somewhere on the network.

 

[LOL The Irony]

and, most important of all, Knutsford will still have an inadequate service.

Knutsford & Northwich are poorly served by rail especially for the potential commuter goldmines they are.

 

[DenmarkRail]

Stafford needs more Scotland services, more than the current 2 daily then.

 

[driver_m]

Knutsford really deserves to be taking the place of Crewe as the centre of the railway universe in the North West. Ringway aka Manchester Airport should also be renamed Knutsford NW International to reflect it's huge importance and the fact the runway isn't that far away. And the McLaren dealership should also sell Rollers, Bentleys and Dacias to expand its horizons.

And Blackpool North should have an open door policy.

 

[HowardGWR]

This week alone we have had YouGov (an American "shamocracy" website) voicing their opinions about London (only) Rail commuters

You appear to be badly informed. YouGov is a British founded polling company which carries out polling for whoever gives it the job of doing so. It is an accredited member of our national polling association and has no opinions of its own, whatsoever, - except on polling methods.

 

[fowler9]

When people stop moaning we may as well all just give up, shut up and do as we are told. Quite an intriguing title for a thread.

 

[DanTrain]

None of which is of use to me, and the 2 schemes I did want have both seemingly been cancelled! If we see transpennine and MML electrification, HS3 proposals from Liverpool to Hull/Newcastle via Man, Leeds and Sheffield, then I might be happy.

We'll never please everyone, moaners will always moan (feel free to count me among them!). Maybe there was less moaning under BR, probably more, but no-one will please everyone, and in a democracy we all have a right to free speech, guaranteeing our collective right to moan

 

[Jnismith]

Thameslink commuters from Flitwick, Harlington, Leagrave and Harpenden aren’t going to be happy either losing 2 trains per hour in the rush hour.

According to the EM trains press release, it will be going from 7 to 5 as two will be fast.

 

[47802]

Indeed, it reads as 2018 is the year when everything becomes fine and dandy. It doesn't, it's all a continuing mess.

Well no I don't suppose everything will be fine and dandy, clearly not by some of the replies and your always going to get some moaners, but 2018 and 2019 is when we really start to see the results of significant investment in Infrastructure and new Rolling Stock.

 

[Andyh82]

Regarding Northern will anything impressive have actually started by this time next year?

By impressive I'm thinking any of the new stock in service, any class 170s in service, any of the brand new services, Northern Connect etc.

With the strikes likely to still be continuing and the pacers still being the backbone of the fleet I expect moans will still continue throughout 2018 in this part of the world.

 

[47802]

Regarding Northern will anything impressive have actually started by this time next year?

By impressive I'm thinking any of the new stock in service, any class 170s in service, any of the brand new services, Northern Connect etc.

With the strikes likely to still be continuing and the pacers still being the backbone of the fleet I expect moans will still continue throughout 2018 in this part of the world.

I think all the 170's are supposed to be cascaded by the end of 2018 with 4 soon, and Northern's new trains are supposed to start towards the end of the year, but yes we still going to be stuck with Pacers next year.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

People's complaints regarding railways are either about "hardware" (infrastructure, rolling stock) or "software" (ticketing, customer service). It tends to be the hardware shortcomings that generate the most consistent shared experiences so these are the complaints that tend to be made the most often, apart from perhaps the day season ticket prices go up. It is unfortunately the case that railway hardware has both a long life and a long lead in time to renewal/replacement. It is therefore inevitable that such complaints will always be made regardless of the actual state of play. And because improvements are often on-going it can also feel like it's always jam tomorrow but cold toast today!

Having an interest in aviation I reminded that in that industry it is often said that no airport is ever completed and the moment any airport management thinks that theirs needs no improvement is the day passengers and airlines go somewhere else. It is also a sign of a developed nation that we always expect things to get better but for that to happen will nearly always need some sort of disruptive works to be taking place. What we need is an alternative to the cliche of "painting the Forth Bridge" to indicate that we, as a society, are always rebuilding/upgrading etc.

 

[Domh245]

What we need is an alternative to the cliche of "painting the Forth Bridge" to indicate that we, as a society, are always rebuilding/upgrading etc.

Reading that as a "We need to be doing something extraordinary instead of something ordinary" - the Government decided to build a major new railway and it seems that half of the forum (and a fair chunk of the population) are throwing a wobbly at it.

 

[AM9]

According to the EM trains press release, it will be going from 7 to 5 as two will be fast.

Well if those 5 TL trains were 8 TL trains, were what was the old and is the new mix of 8-car and 12-car class 700 units?

 

[Master29]

So we get plenty of moans on here about the state of the UK railways despite the fact there is currently massive investment in the railways, unfortunately much of that has a long lead time and NR's vastly over budget and late electrification hasn't helped, but 2018 will start to see some of the fruits of that investment, including at the start of the New Year we get 387's to Didcot, more electrified route for IET's and the start of a significant cascade of Turbo Units to Bristol, HST's to Scotland, more DMU's for Northern, also later in the year full electric service between Glasgow and Edinburgh completion of Blackpool - Manchester electrification etc. etc.

Will this shut some of the moaners up? although I don't expect moaning about the seats will stop

You talk of fruits but time will tell. You probably said the same thing about GWR electrification last year. We had the so called best brains (consultants, quangos and other cronies) working on that and it would have been better in the hands of Sunday school kids. People had every right to moan and still do.

On a positive it is a year to look forward to and all of those points you make will be worth it in the end.

 

[DaveN]

Actually they haven't said which TL Bedord trains will become the faster ones in May. My bet is that it will be the TL3 (East Grinstead) peak only services. That will mean the end of any faster peak services at Flitwick leaving 4 all stations to St Albans per hour. Harpenden will go from 7 to 5 "fast" services per hour in the peak.
That wouldn't directly effect Leagrave & Harlington except that their trains will be busier with the Harpenden and Flitwick users that won't be on the fast ones just before them anymore.

We don't know yet which trains will be 8-car and which 12-car in May because they haven't announced that - and they haven't updated which are planned to be 8 or 12 since Dec 2016. When they say about the extra seats they never say compared to when. Is it still 2008 by any chance?

It is human nature that people will moan if their service gets worse (or even stays the same when they are being told it is getting better!). Sadly the Thameslink May 2018 timetable seems to have very few winners indeed compared to to-day's timetable.

 

[SPADTrap]

DaveN I can't get my head around why Harpenden will lose services. I'm being dense. Could you elaborate for me? Thank you

 

[47802]

Reading that as a "We need to be doing something extraordinary instead of something ordinary" - the Government decided to build a major new railway and it seems that half of the forum (and a fair chunk of the population) are throwing a wobbly at it.

Well of course this year we see a lot of changes as a result of Electrification completion, Crossrail, New Rolling and Major Timetable changes although its a work in progress with more to come in 2019 and beyond. Up to the latter part of 2017 we hadn't seen much evidence of this except on GTR with the new 700's and 387's which of course seems to have generated more moaners rather than less over the quality of the seating and the seating layout.

I think most people will regard the 387's as improvement over Turbo Units, and Turbo Units and improvement over 150's however I don't doubt we are going to get moaners complaining about Turbo Units replacing 158's on the Portsmouth run, and the seating on both types of Aventra units for TFL, as for Timetable changes no doubt that will be a can of worms as well.