LOL The Irony
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Travel costs from Crewe to Wincham. Most D&G drivers are local to Crewe. D&G refused to pay for the costs of traveling further.
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Cheshire Bus News (was East Cheshire Bus News)
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LOL The Irony
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Yes that's the case.
I bow to your superior knowledge if you know the exact route more than 56 days notice before implementation, but given your previous response, could I request some manners, please. I assume the divergence is in Lacey Green, with this new service runing through Styal.
As regards the basic point I would argue that it is very rare for a variation of 400 metres, never mind 4 miles to retain the same service number.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
The registration is for Macclesfield-Alderley Edge-Wilmslow-Manchester Airport. I don't know the exact route it'll take to the Airport it could be to Colshaw Farm, then to the Airport, it could be via Lacey Green, it could be via Altrincham Road but whichever way it is the route between Macclesfield and Wilmslow will be identical.
TfGM seem to think it's OK for an 04:16 bus between Wythenshawe Hospital and World Freight Terminal to be given number 19, when number 19 is usually used for Wythenshawe to Altrincham via Sale (a completely different direction) - the only overlapping section being between Wythenshawe Hospital and Wythenshawe Interchange! I say TfGM are OK with it because they specified it as a contracted journey. If both the Traffic Commissioner and TfGM are OK with that then I can't see anyone with authority seeing D&G using the 130 number as an issue.
That Wythenshawe Hospital - Cargo Centre 19 is a part route of the 19 though - there's a 4:40 from Broadheath and a 05:35 from Altrincham, and in the opposite direction, the 04:48, 05:50 and 06:51 services all run through to Altrincham. Thats in common with the recently withdrawn Colshaw Farm terminators, which followed the exact same route, only terminating short, and in contrast with the upcoming 130, which, unless it goes all the way to Piccadilly Gardens and back out again will be a different route to the Arriva 130
northwichcat
Veteran Member
I don't think it's the same. It'd be like a bus running an early service from Macclesfield Hospital-Macclesfield-Congleton, then a return working of Congleton-Macclesfield-Manchester and then running Manchester-Macclesfield for the rest of the day and calling them all 130 services.
The 19 is simply an extension of the existing Alty to Wythenshawe service which runs both directions! Its not a circular, so I don't understand your point.
Service numbers are not registered particulars, so the TCs don't have any say in what he service is labelled. In practice, TFGM would have little say either as it is a commercial venture. The "issue" would only be with the passengers and if they are confused they are less likely to use it. And if, as you hint there will be no commonality within GM, then that is really just a problem for D&G and East Cheshire. Besides, TFGM probably don't know about it yet!
northwichcat
Veteran Member
The registration lists both TfGM and Cheshire East as the relevant authorities so if TfGM don't know about it then someone hasn't checked their emails!
Eh! Whats wrong with that, unless the early service goes a different route between the Hospital, Macc & Congleton, it is surely just a short working. The line of route is exactly he same. There are numerous examples of short workings throughout GM and the country as a whole. What you are talking about is a route following a completely different line of route but having the same number. It just seems to be a strange and unnecessary decision that has rarely happened in GM before.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
Perhaps we should all just wait and see what actually happens rather than speculating on routes/numbers that will be available in a few weeks anyway?
There's certainly topics more worthy of discussion than the number of a D&G commercial service. It's also worth noting Arriva are revising their 130 timetable on the 1st April (again precise details unavailable.) I find it surprising some people are more bothered about objecting to D&G using the 130 number rather than commenting on a bus link which was set to be axed being retained (at least for now.)
northwichcat
Veteran Member
Reported on a bus forum that Howards/Springfield have put their Enviro 200s and Metrocity up for sale, which suggests they won't be running any Cheshire East contracts.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
The 58 service is to be diverted via Black Road, eliminating the need for a separate route 1 service.
LOL The Irony
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Shame. I prefer Howards over D&G.
I'm a bit confused now; If its not clear what the route is, how do you know it sees the retention of a facility that was set for the chop? And if it IS now clear that that is the case, why doesn't that number get adopted?
northwichcat
Veteran Member
The service will include a section between Wilmslow and Manchester Airport station, we just don't know the exact route. Cheshire East will no longer provide funding for a Wilmslow to Manchester Airport bus from 1st April. Currently the Quarry Bank Mill diversion is funded by the National Trust and the viewing park extension is funded by Manchester Airport. Even if the new D&G service runs via Styal there's no guarantee it'll serve Quarry Bank Mill, there's also no guarantee it'll serve Wilmslow station like the 200 currently does and given TfGM are managing arrangements for the 288 to serve the viewing park and the registration indicates the Airport station is the terminus, serving the viewing park looks extremely unlikely. If it's Airport station-Styal-Wilmslow-Macclesfield giving it the number 200 will probably confuse more passengers in Wilmslow than giving it 130 given it'll duplicate the Arriva 130 route to Macclesfield but probably won't duplicate what is currently the Howards 200 to the Airport Viewing Park.
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Maybe different things confuse different people. In GM, passengers are used to short stretches of routes being changed or by-passed, so with a "Manc mindset", using 200 would not confuse people at all. I would guess you are right about it not serving the RVP, but digressing, I don't think its in any way certain the 288 will be diverted there more than it is now. In saying that it might be significant that you say TFGM are "managing" arrangements for this option. In other words, it might not be TFGM that would actually pay for it, as it would be regarded as a leisure facility, not one needed for people to get to Education or Work. As such, Airport City has risen up he agenda.
LOL The Irony
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Hahaha I just remembered how the 88 used to be the 288
northwichcat
Veteran Member
If a route changes but keeps the same number it might confuse passengers but then if the route changes and the number changes it might confuse different passengers. I think you really have to look at most popular passenger flows when making such a decision.
As TfGM award a contract for the 288 it would probably be easier for MAG to come to an arrangement with TfGM before a contract is awarded then to try to come to one with either TfGM or the contract winner after the award is made. There's plenty of bus services which get funding from more than one source but usually the one providing the most funding awards the contract.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
Indeed. After Arriva lost the contract it originally became Connect 88, with most Cheshire East contracts between different towns being called Connect and the Knutsford-Wilmslow-Altrincham route being the first one to get that brand (it was before the blue Cheshire County Council 'Cheshire Rider' buses got repainted.)
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
TfGM have now issued a replacement 130 timetable dated 28th January with the D&G journeys to and from Handforth Dean included, but for some reason, have used a much smaller type face than normal in the timetable section.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
Surprise winner for the revised Stockport to Macclesfield contract - Selwyns will be running it. It'll become service 391/392.
High Peak to continue to run the 19 service.
High Peak to continue to run the 19 service.
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northwichcat
Veteran Member
D&G have won the Alsager contracts and will run them as routes 317 and 318 from the Adderley Green depot.
323235
Established Member
Looks like D&G have got the Knutsford services - 89 Knutsford - Northwich has just been registered.
They've also registered a part subsidised 88 Knutsford - Macclesfield. I was expecting this to be numbered 87.
They've also registered a part subsidised 88 Knutsford - Macclesfield. I was expecting this to be numbered 87.
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northwichcat
Veteran Member
There's a registration number PC1090231/135 on the system which hasn't been properly filled in which shows 88/88A/188 so I'd suggest PC1090231/136 should be 87, otherwise they'll be two 88 services. 188 will be the school day services between Knutsford and Mobberley only.
There's also a 70 and a 72 service showing for D&G which haven't yet been fully filled in.
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northwichcat
Veteran Member
Knutsford-Altrincham registration appearing now. Interestingly it's Knutsford to Colshaw Farm, Wilmslow OR Altrincham via Mobberley and Wilmslow as a part subsided service.
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Danfilm007
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Will be interesting to see the amended timetables, especially as I currently commute on the Knuts-Wilmslow portion of the 88! Let's hope the timekeeping improves on the route, it's been woeful over the last few days.
The new D&G timetables are on their website - very few surprises for me, some evening buses on the 8 in Crewe (which Cheshire East had asked for as an option) and the 38 on Sundays no longer runs between Crewe and Nantwich (although there are some Sunday buses on the 8, which much be commercial now)
northwichcat
Veteran Member
The 'Route E' is more similar to the Cheshire East proposal than I thought. 88A is a Mon-Fri commercial Knutsford to Colshaw Farm via Longridge service replacing the 300 and some of the withdrawn 88 journeys. They've added in an extra 14:50 Knutsford to Macclesfield service and a 15:45 Macclesfield to Knutsford service but they've left the lengthy gap between early Altrincham-Wilmslow-Knutsford services. I thought they had left off the 18:45 Altrincham to Knutsford but it's just gone on to a page by it's own. The Northwich services will be through services from Altrincham with a route number change at Knutsford bus station.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
If you're going in to Knutsford in the morning and out in the evening I hope a 08:20 arrival in Knutsford suits you, if not you're a bit stuck! Going out of Knutsford in the evening times are pretty much the same as they are now.
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