Should Seat Reservations Be Abolished?

[trainophile]

I must say I am always relieved when on a busy Merseyrail train a slimly built woman sits next to me at Central, as all too often I have been squashed against the window by some huge bloke in a thick overcoat who usually gets on at Moorfields, and who then proceeds to elbow me while fiddling with his phone or reading a book. However if there's an empty pair of seats facing then it seems a bit weird to remain in eachother's space rather than taking the diagonally opposite seat. I know I could be the one to move across, but as I was there first I don't see why I should travel backwards!

I think personal space has a lot to do with it. We are not comfortable in close proximity to someone we don't know.

 

[Taunton]

Unless you, like London Buses, live in the dark ages, removing already passed via points is not a difficult IT problem.

Bus companies, like anyone else, can only buy what is commercially available in the market. If there are no such products available, and I have never encountered one anywhere, then they, or their contractors, cannot be expected to install it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've sat next to someone on a train with most seats not taken and they were a bit freaked out.

The reason, however, was that it was a Class 321 on which there are 8 seats in the entire unit with acceptable legroom when full (the row of airline seats by First Class and the row under the pantograph), and I'd boarded very early at Euston but knew the train would be (and was) full and standing on departure.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Bus companies, like anyone else, can only buy what is commercially available in the market. If there are no such products available, and I have never encountered one anywhere, then they, or their contractors, cannot be expected to install it.

TfL designed iBus to their specification. It would not have been hard to build it into that using an off the shelf LED display. But some Luddite in TfL thinks roller blinds are better, a sentiment which almost no transport authority nor private transport company anywhere in the world agrees with.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Hull Trains? Eh? That bit makes no sense.

Hull Trains use five car 180's and when I've travelled on them, there's never been any seats and there's been passengers standing. Hency why I thought it was worth mentioning them.

 

[pt_mad]

I think personal space has a lot to do with it. We are not comfortable in close proximity to someone we don't know.

Although we have to be as that's how the trains are designed. And the buses.
I'm just imagining a carriage with three rows of individual seats from front to rear, with two aisles in between .


Although I spose whatever goes around comes back around. As, if we prefer sitting alone and take up the pairs of seats to ourselves first, next time, we might be with a companion or family and have to sit apart as others are doing what we normally do. So whichever way it's done someone will be disappointed on busy trains.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Although we have to be as that's how the trains are designed. And the buses.
I'm just imagining a coach with three rows of individual seats from front to rear with two aisles in between .

I have wondered if they should look at doing some bays of 6 with single airline seats on the other side in some coaches rather than 2+2 for everything. The bays of 6 are quite popular with families when a 350/2 ends up on the Trent Valley services. Some DB EMUs have this kind of layout, as did the old InterRegio coaches.

If we consider that such a layout "feels full" if you have someone either immediately next to you or directly opposite, that actually gives a higher capacity before it "feels full", too. That's actually one upside of 3+2 - you can use it as generous 2+1 as well without it "feeling full", whereas 2+2 "feels full" if everyone is travelling alone at 1+1 occupancy.

 

[pt_mad]

Or better still, just set out new build carriages with exam tables, like in school. And no person should able to see another up close, as in the UK close proximity is not appropriate.

Do it as part of the new West Coast Franchise. 'The new franchisee plans to invest in 200% additional rolling stock. And all vehicles including existing stock will be refitted with 1+1+1 seating to suit modern attitudes to not being in close proximity to others'.

 

[westv]

Hull Trains use five car 180's and when I've travelled on them, there's never been any seats and there's been passengers standing. Hency why I thought it was worth mentioning them.

So you'd replace passengers standing with different passengers standing?

 

[duffield]

Another thing which can be annoying is when you travel with a companion or family and you find that a third of the coach is empty, but most rows of 2 are occupied by one person. So there's single seat after single seat next to individual travellers. But not one double available. So you have to sit away from your family or companion.

Is it just human nature for individual travellers to occupy all the double seats with one person at a double before people start to sit next to strangers?
It doesn't seem often individual travellers double up next to strangers (having consideration for people travelling in couples or families) before all the double seats are full.

I think most people would find it a bit weird if a stranger sat next to you in a twin seat when there were free pairs. And most people would also feel the already sitting passenger would find it weird if they were to do the same.

What I usually do when traveling solo is initially sit in the twin seat by myself but if the train fills up and I see two people obviously together who are going to have to sit separately (and it's usually pretty obvious), one of them next to me, I offer to swap so they can sit together. They are usually surprised and then appreciative.

If the train is pretty empty and someone quite unnecessarily sits next to me, I find that odd enough that I will move elsewhere and let them have the seats they appear to want.

 

[trainophile]

Happens quite a lot on trains with facing pairs of seats, as a high proportion of people don't like travelling backwards, so would rather sit next to someone and go forwards than have a double seat to themselves but travelling backwards. I can understand that, but it would be a last resort for me as I can put up with going backwards if it means more space to myself. Of course there's always the risk that someone else will sit beside you, then you have the worst of both worlds .

 

[Statto]

No seat reservations should not be abolished, & seat reservations shouldn't be compulsory either, quite a few long distance services operate local/regional service, like VTWC north of Crewe, speaking of VTWC i like the idea of unreserved coaches which VTC have on the Pendolino services as well as coaches that are reservable.

 

[PeterC]

What**?

If anything, swapping away from a seat just to avoid a person sitting next to you looks even wierder*. Sitting next to somebody like this is common on trains that are going to fill up before departure, or further along the route. Some people do it deliberately to ve near luggage/bike/door/whatever, or because they're getting off at the first station, so just trying to make life easier.


*(Although less so if you give them "I'll give you a bit more room" line in return).

**Only one instance I've had with this where I genuinely felt it was odd, where two mates got on. One sat in a vacant pair opposite me, the other next to me so they could talk facing each other across the aisle. Rather than, you know, just sitting next to each other and giving me more space...

Nobody mentoned moving away from a person who sits next to you.

 

[route101]

No seat reservations should not be abolished, & seat reservations shouldn't be compulsory either, quite a few long distance services operate local/regional service, like VTWC north of Crewe, speaking of VTWC i like the idea of unreserved coaches which VTC have on the Pendolino services as well as coaches that are reservable.

They have changed it to Coach c on the pendos so theres less seats now .

 

[Bevan Price]

No seat reservations should not be abolished, & seat reservations shouldn't be compulsory either, quite a few long distance services operate local/regional service, like VTWC north of Crewe, speaking of VTWC i like the idea of unreserved coaches which VTC have on the Pendolino services as well as coaches that are reservable.

Yes - a good idea, but a problem when a 9 coach Pendo appears on a service that should be 11 coaches, and you find there are no "unreserved" coaches.

 

[DavidGrain]

I have always been surprised by the number of unoccupied reserved seats on trains. At first I thought that they were advanced tickets that were no shows and so many people were losing their money. Then I realised that you can have a ticket valid either anytime or offpeak and have a reservation that you are not bound by.

My thought is that a reservation fee should be included with an advance fare but be an optional extra at say £1 or £2 non-refundable.

In many areas long distance trains double up as commuter trains. For example in the West Midlands, Virgin have three intermediate stops (including Birmingham) between Wolverhampton and Coventry and Chiltern (who do not have seat reservations) from my local station operate three trains to London in the morning peak but as these pass through Birmingham they are rammed every morning with commuters so I can't get a seat until Snow Hill.

 

[trainophile]

A lot of people will board a train and if they see an unreserved seat that they think will do, they don't bother to seek out their reserved one.

Going back to sitting with strangers, in TPE's 185's 1st compartment they always reserve the four seats around the middle table, while leaving some singles and the other table for four unreserved. It's natural to sit where you have a bit more privacy, rather than with a bunch of strangers.

 

[DavidGrain]

A lot of people will board a train and if they see an unreserved seat that they think will do, they don't bother to seek out their reserved one.

Going back to sitting with strangers, in TPE's 185's 1st compartment they always reserve the four seats around the middle table, while leaving some singles and the other table for four unreserved. It's natural to sit where you have a bit more privacy, rather than with a bunch of strangers.

I don't agree. I often see single people sitting at a four seat table which is very annoying if there are four of you travelling together. I usually think it is so that they can spread their laptop, papers, coffee cup etc out. Oh and to get to the power socket.

 

[pt_mad]

Work sent me on a course once and I was forced to sit with a bunch of strangers in a training room

 

[trainophile]

I don't agree. I often see single people sitting at a four seat table which is very annoying if there are four of you travelling together. I usually think it is so that they can spread their laptop, papers, coffee cup etc out. Oh and to get to the power socket.

If there are four of you travelling together, wouldn't you generally know in advance and make reservations? Unlikely to suddenly send four colleagues off together on a business trip with no notice.

 

[edwin_m]

I don't agree. I often see single people sitting at a four seat table which is very annoying if there are four of you travelling together. I usually think it is so that they can spread their laptop, papers, coffee cup etc out. Oh and to get to the power socket.

As mentioned above by at least one other person apart from me, it's virtually impossible to use a laptop at a face-to-back seat on most British trains (Eurostar is OK), so I normally have no alternative but to use a table. However if you are a group of four and three of you sit round the one person and the other sits across the aisle and starts talking loudly, then the offending person will probably offer to move.

 

[pt_mad]

As mentioned above by at least one other person apart from me, it's virtually impossible to use a laptop at a face-to-back seat on most British trains (Eurostar is OK), so I normally have no alternative but to use a table. However if you are a group of four and three of you sit round the one person and the other sits across the aisle and starts talking loudly, then the offending person will probably offer to move.

Perhaphs tablets will become even more established than they are now. For this reason.

 

[edwin_m]

Perhaphs tablets will become even more established than they are now. For this reason.

With accurate typing being virtually impossible that might require voice recognition instead. So you'd end up with a trainload of people mumbling into microphones...

 

[pt_mad]

With accurate typing being virtually impossible that might require voice recognition instead. So you'd end up with a trainload of people mumbling into microphones...

That I would like to see haha.

Too true about accurately typo being difficulty on smert device.

 

[edwin_m]

That I would like to see haha.

To see maybe, but not to hear!

 

[mmh]

Unless you, like London Buses, live in the dark ages, removing already passed via points is not a difficult IT problem.

It's quite deliberate that London buses don't use electronic destination boards, to make them more readable - the same reason a few years ago they were standardised to be in as big a typeface as possible and the fronts mostly limited to number and destination only. I agree with them, some of the dot matrix style displays seen outside London are truly awful and difficult to read or are pointlessly alternating between multiple screens of information.

 

[mmh]

I must say I am always relieved when on a busy Merseyrail train a slimly built woman sits next to me at Central, as all too often I have been squashed against the window by some huge bloke in a thick overcoat who usually gets on at Moorfields, and who then proceeds to elbow me while fiddling with his phone or reading a book. However if there's an empty pair of seats facing then it seems a bit weird to remain in eachother's space rather than taking the diagonally opposite seat. I know I could be the one to move across, but as I was there first I don't see why I should travel backwards!

I think personal space has a lot to do with it. We are not comfortable in close proximity to someone we don't know.

If I sit at a table with one person already at it I'll generally sit diagonally across from them, although I don't think both being in the window seats would seem odd - lots of people prefer window seats.

I quite like the seating layout on Merseyrail - the metal spacer type bit between the seats mean they don't feel as cramped as on other Metro-type trains with similar width seats.

 

[trainophile]

If I sit at a table with one person already at it I'll generally sit diagonally across from them, although I don't think both being in the window seats would seem odd - lots of people prefer window seats.

I quite like the seating layout on Merseyrail - the metal spacer type bit between the seats mean they don't feel as cramped as on other Metro-type trains with similar width seats.

Prepare to not like the new trains then. From the pictures they have put on Twitter the seats look very cramped, with no space either between them or on the window side.

 

[route101]

If I sit at a table with one person already at it I'll generally sit diagonally across from them, although I don't think both being in the window seats would seem odd - lots of people prefer window seats.

I quite like the seating layout on Merseyrail - the metal spacer type bit between the seats mean they don't feel as cramped as on other Metro-type trains with similar width seats.

I thought the metal spacer things were to make it easier to find things that dropped out your pocket . Though they have awful wind0w alignment .

You dont want to one person amongst a group of 4.

 

[causton]

Or better still, just set out new build carriages with exam tables, like in school. And no person should able to see another up close, as in the UK close proximity is not appropriate.

You keep laughing like it is a joke but it is true. Many people would rather stand than sit next to somebody else...

Which is why in a way sometimes I prefer 3+2 (or as Bletchleyite says, maybe 3+1) as you can sit at a bay of 6 with 3 strangers and not feel as cramped as sitting at a bay of 4.

So either you are making fun of quite a lot of the British commuting public (as I see this daily) or you don't understand how they feel!