New seat reservation displays on existing LNER trains

[JimJamJay]

Just stepped onto a virgin East coast train and these new seat barcode "things" have appeared. (See slightly blurred image)

Does anyone know anything about these??

TIA
J

 

[_toommm_]

Already mentioneed these in the Mark 4 PIS thread - they will eventually be for seat reservations, replacing the tickets that get printed out and displayed atop of every seat, and these screens are only fitted to the 91/MK4 sets that VTEC are keeping post-IEP.


As to why they're displaying a barcode, they're not yet operationally functional so the barcode is probably just a parts number or a temporary holding image til they get the ability to display the seat reservations.

 

[_toommm_]

Said quote:

Some of the Mark 4's have seat reservation screens now. They're the kind of low refresh rate screens found on the original Kindles (the black and white ones). At the moment I've just seen it on the coaches currently trailing 91101 - they're not in service at the moment with one screen saying 'Virgin Trains' and the other saying 'coming soon'

 

[^BG]

They will be used for seat reservations! There is also another feature built into it which is quite good and has been worked on for about 2 years by our innovation team, not sure if it's public knowledge yet though!

 

[SaveECRewards]

They will be used for seat reservations! There is also another feature built into it which is quite good and has been worked on for about 2 years by our innovation team, not sure if it's public knowledge yet though!

That’ll be the sensors to detect seat occupation. These can be used to better show the carriage loadings and also in future reservations mid route will be possible and unlike on CrossCountry it won’t kick you out of your seat.

If they get this right then I will gain a bit of confidence with VTECs use of technology. Last year was a car crash. Complicated ticket machines, Travel Buddy and a website that took away features we had since 2007.

I spoke to a guard yesterday about these and he’s worried these bulky units will mean some people hit their head on them. He also claims no thought has been put into how the system handles set swaps or short forms. Also single seats in first class still have the double display for window and aisle.

The VTEC website says all trains are getting this. https://www.virgintrainseastcoast.c...t-coast-standard/electronic-seat-reservation/

 

[^BG]

I literally thought for a moment you were a mind reader! Didn't realise all was revealed on our website.

From what I understand this is a dry run, with a view to implementing it into Azuma once the technology proves itself, so I'm curious to see it in action. Not to be critical of our guard, but I would certainly hope after a two year development cycle that issues such as set swaps and short forms will have been talked about!

 

[SaveECRewards]

I literally thought for a moment you were a mind reader! Didn't realise all was revealed on our website.

From what I understand this is a dry run, with a view to implementing it into Azuma once the technology proves itself, so I'm curious to see it in action. Not to be critical of our guard, but I would certainly hope after a two year development cycle that issues such as set swaps and short forms will have been talked about!

You’d hope so but I was invited to a focus meeting to discuss the new VTEC booking engine back in 2015. The new booking engine wasn’t launched until 2017 and they didn’t include cycle reservations and a way for modifying advance tickets that wasn’t cancel and rebook. These were both features we’ve had since 2007. That’s why I created my 1997 site http://www.virgintrainseastcoast.uk/ it was a preview of what would happen if their next update took us back another 10 years.

I’m hoping a different team is leading these electronic reservations.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Has any thought been give to the fact that heavy bags may show a seat as "occupied" when it isnt?

 

[takno]

Has any thought been give to the fact that heavy bags may show a seat as "occupied" when it isnt?

I expect endless high jinks with big bags registering and actual people in all number of shapes, sizes and sitting positions not doing so. After around 2 years the sensors will start to fail and certain seats will be consistently booked out from under their occupants. People will start to disregard the people coming to turf them out of their seats, and sooner or later the staff will give up trying to enforce it. The First open access operation is sounding more appealing by the day

 

[mpthomson]

I expect endless high jinks with big bags registering and actual people in all number of shapes, sizes and sitting positions not doing so. After around 2 years the sensors will start to fail and certain seats will be consistently booked out from under their occupants. People will start to disregard the people coming to turf them out of their seats, and sooner or later the staff will give up trying to enforce it. The First open access operation is sounding more appealing by the day

We're doomed Captain Mainwaring, doomed I tell ye! shall we wait to see how it works before predicting planes falling from the sky and the end of civilisation as we know it?

 

[Adlington]

Has any thought been give to the fact that heavy bags may show a seat as "occupied" when it isnt?

No, because the seats will also have temperature sensors build into them. After say, a minute or so, they will be able to differentiate between a cold and a hot (ok, body temperature) load.
This doesn't solve the problem of detecting pooches, moggies, goats, llamas &c occupying seats (illegally of course)

 

[Bletchleyite]

No, because the seats will also have temperature sensors build into them. After say, a minute or so, they will be able to differentiate between a cold and a hot (ok, body temperature) load.
This doesn't solve the problem of detecting pooches, moggies, goats, llamas &c occupying seats (illegally of course)

How's about when someone goes to the buffet?

It seems a solution looking for a problem, really, when I think it would be genuinely better just to mark some coaches as reserved and some as unreserved and just make reservations really easy to get right up to travel.

 

[westv]

Now this really would have been a good April Fool news item rather than the "Over 55 Railcard" one.

 

[tiptoptaff]

How's about when someone goes to the buffet?

Do the VTEC Class 800s have Buffets? But yes that's an issue. Or going to the loo, taking a call outside the quiet coach, etc etc, all valid reasons someone will vacate their seat for a short period, but long enough to potentially double book the seat

 

[Bletchleyite]

Do the VTEC Class 800s have Buffets?

Yes, as do the Mk4 sets to which these are being retrofitted.

 

[SaveECRewards]

Yes, as do the Mk4 sets to which these are being retrofitted.

Mk3 too! The VTEC site says all the fleet are getting this.

But getting up out your seat should never be a problem. A sensible implementation will check occupation of the seat over a period of time and only if it's unoccupied for the the whole duration then it's marked as available. Best err on the side of caution when deciding if the seat is occupied.

 

[takno]

We're doomed Captain Mainwaring, doomed I tell ye! shall we wait to see how it works before predicting planes falling from the sky and the end of civilisation as we know it?

If it all works out fine then nobody's likely to go picking over old threads and calling out the doomsayers, but if it fails I shall be the first to say 'I told you so!'.

More seriously, the track record of VTEC on technical innovations has been hopeless, and seat reservation technology generally has been pretty disappointing. Betting against this working doesn't seem like a long shot tbh. I'm more positive about the e-ink displays; they are much better than the Pendo/Voyager-style LED displays, although they still don't have the benefit of being able to see them through the windows which is pretty damn useful.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The issue with e-ink is that it can (like a Solari type display) fail showing wrong information.

 

[Nick66]

I noticed these last week and had two thoughts:

1 They are totally in the wrong place to be properly seen, I seem to remember when I was once on VTWC they were further back and easy to see;
2 Some idiot* is going to smack their head on that.

Otherwise a good idea, I’m always in favour of progress.

*me more than likely

 

[_toommm_]

No, because the seats will also have temperature sensors build into them. After say, a minute or so, they will be able to differentiate between a cold and a hot (ok, body temperature) load.
This doesn't solve the problem of detecting pooches, moggies, goats, llamas &c occupying seats (illegally of course)

Moggie means a mark you might get on your neck from your loved one in Sheffield by the way

 

[SaveECRewards]

I will say done right they would be great but after experiencing other things from the department of silly ideas, sorry “innovation team” I don’t hold up much hope.

Here’s the Virgin Train’s [sp] take: http://www.virgintrainseastcoast.uk/densa.htm

A guard showed me an email that showed that some of the units were already coming loose and if this happened they were told to put them somewhere safe and notify the innovation team so they’d get fixed.

The units themselves are wireless which is another point of failure for each display. As it’s using e-ink the batteries will last ages but if one fails no one might notice.

I should have a friendly bet with @^BG as to whether this system will be a success. Like most on here we have come to the conclusion that VTEC messes up everything they touch as far as technology is concerned. Speaking of which, as they blocked me on Twitter I’ve reverted to contacting them by letter. If they’re going to remove the easiest way for me to contact them I might as well use the most difficult way for them to reply to me!

 

[Mag_seven]

the 91/MK4 sets that VTEC are keeping post-IEP.

They are? How many sets are they keeping and what services will they work? This is news to me.

 

[SaveECRewards]

They are? How many sets are they keeping and what services will they work? This is news to me.

It's so VTEC can operate extra services to Edinburgh, they got awarded extra paths that weren't part of their core franchise agreement. I believe these sets will be shorter formations (7 car perhaps?)

 

[Marton]

Let’s hope the technology works. If it’s like the new website......

 

[xotGD]

They've installed these units in the Mark 4 buffet cars - which are always unreserved!

 

[robbeech]

They've installed these units in the Mark 4 buffet cars - which are always unreserved!

This will be for the seat occupancy bit bo doubt.
It appears these things are Bluetooth (sorry if it’s been mentioned a thousand times). I was searching for a Bluetooth device of mine the other day and up popped several similarly named things.

 

[Leyland155]

They've installed these units in the Mark 4 buffet cars - which are always unreserved!

As already mentioned on another thread, I also saw them in a Mark 3 buffet car! Surely its not the best investment considering they're supposed to leave the fleet in December?

 

[ainsworth74]

They've installed these units in the Mark 4 buffet cars - which are always unreserved!

Not necessarily. In the event of short forms it's not unheard of for Coach H to gain some seat reservations from the displaced coach.

 

[SaveECRewards]

As already mentioned on another thread, I also saw them in a Mark 3 buffet car! Surely its not the best investment considering they're supposed to leave the fleet in December?

Not just a mk 3 but an EMT mk 3!

The units are actually quite easy to fit. No wires and they’re glued on! They won’t be leaving the fleet in December. Only one Azuma will be in service by then, so there’ll still be HSTs around in a years time.

 

[Leyland155]

Not just a mk 3 but an EMT mk 3!

The units are actually quite easy to fit. No wires and they’re glued on! They won’t be leaving the fleet in December. Only one Azuma will be in service by then, so there’ll still be HSTs around in a years time.

Indeed haha, I was glad to have managed a ride in an EMT coach

Given the simplicity of fitting them I suppose it makes sense; let's hope the glue holds I'm happy to hear the HST's are staying longer than I thought!